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Quarter Life Crisis. It's a thing. v.GN


daturbosix

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no idea. they were in the car when i took possession of it in april. but at that point there was only 1500 miles on the build. probably 2500 miles on them *IF* they were new when dude put them in prior to me owning it.
 
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v6buicks

v6buicks

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no idea. they were in the car when i took possession of it in april. but at that point there was only 1500 miles on the build. probably 2500 miles on them *IF* they were new when dude put them in prior to me owning it.
Nice. I'll let you know when I'm ready to buy. Hopefully you'll find your 120s by then!
 
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v6buicks

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It's not often I have any sort of update while the car sits in storage, but I bought some freshly cleaned 60s and a chip.
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The Buick dicks think I'm an idiot, but I don't think Eric at turbo tweak would even bother making a chip for 60s and E85 if the two didn't work together. Is it ideal since the injectors will be essentially maxxed out? No, but will they work on an almost completely stock car? Yes. Besides, I got the combo pretty cheap. I look forward to ditching that last century alky control setup in favor of a cleaned up engine bay.

What I'm not too sure about is whether or not my fuel pump is up to the task. It too is on the small side. (Racetronix 255) I have an Accufab regulator which is good, but the stock lines and little single pumper may not have the guts to provide adequate flow. This is all according to a few guys who I think are misjudging my goals though. For some reason most characters in the GN community assume that every car is a track whore which lives it's entire life WOT if it's not in the garage. I'm not scared to give it a try though. After all, my priorities have changed pretty drastically.

I'm really tired of maintaining two cars over thirty years old, a twenty year old shitbox with double the original power, and a ten year-old 185k mile European daily driver. Meanwhile, I'm not entirely happy with any of them due to the lack of attention I'm able to direct toward a single car at one time. It's time to thin the heard. With all these options, it may seem silly to aim straight for the jugular by axing my dream car. I have to admit though. The GN is more of a massive pain in my ass than it is fun to own. I don't really like driving it, it's expensive, and there's very little I can do to change any of this. As of right now, I'd like to restore the engine a little closer to stock. I'll sell some of the higher priced items, replace them with stock, install a new exhaust, repair the headers, fix a couple leaks, put nice tires an the stock wheels, and see if I'm satisfied. If I still hate it, the car should at least be worth more than I paid.

It's sad to think that I would rather put a transmission into a Camaro and buy a new truck than have my Grand National, but that's what we've come to. I'd rather have a couple nice cars than have a bunch of garbage with no time to fix any of it. I'm burnt out.
 

Mr_Roboto

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55gph*6.25lb/gal=343.5lb/hr at 13.5V
47gph*6.25lb/gal=293.75lb/hr at 12V

6*60lb/hr=360lb/hr at 100% DC
360*.8=288lb/hr at 80% DC

Do you know what pump you have? That's a GSS342 and a 307 looks pretty similar output wise. I'd be looking at spending the $125ish for an Aeromotive 340 especially with a stock fuel system or another pump regardless. That assumes a VERY good fuel system and not stock lines like you have. Looking at this chart those numbers may even be generous tbh. As much of a pain in the ass as dropping the tank is I'd rather do that than pay for an engine swap. If you don't have a hotwire you need one as well. Even if it's home made.



6 injectors with 43.5PSI base, turbo and 100% DC is 59lb/hr at 450hp according to FIC and 415hp at 90% with HP at the crank. Assuming you have a stone stock engine and it made 165ish HP NA (probably not totally unrealistic considering the FWD version made 165HP in an Electra with a roller cam.) You'd be doing at the edge with 60s e.g. over 90% DC. Any sort of mods that bumped engine VE would make it suspect in my mind that you'd have enough fuel for this e.g if you have head or cam work you're probably going to over run the fueling.
 
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v6buicks

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55gph*6.25lb/gal=343.5lb/hr at 13.5V
47gph*6.25lb/gal=293.75lb/hr at 12V

6*60lb/hr=360lb/hr at 100% DC
360*.8=288lb/hr at 80% DC

Do you know what pump you have? That's a GSS342 and a 307 looks pretty similar output wise. I'd be looking at spending the $125ish for an Aeromotive 340 especially with a stock fuel system or another pump regardless. That assumes a VERY good fuel system and not stock lines like you have. Looking at this chart those numbers may even be generous tbh. As much of a pain in the ass as dropping the tank is I'd rather do that than pay for an engine swap. If you don't have a hotwire you need one as well. Even if it's home made.

Good info. Thanks!

The pump is a Racetronix 255 which I'm not sure what that is equivalent to. It has a nice hot wire too. I'm cool with dropping the tank. It needs to be repainted anyway. I admit I'm trying to skirt around spending money, but I'll do what's needed to make it run nice. It just seems like I should update the lines and sender if I'm going to go ahead with pump upgrade (+500). At that point, it'll be ready for whatever though.
 

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“Never meet your idols”. It works the same for vehicles lol.

I know what it’s like to be burnt out on constantly fixing shit. Fixing daily drivers taking up all the time and energy and leaving none to go around for the toys. Ironically, those are the same toys we bought to enjoy our time working on stuff. Vicious circle.

Wait it out, it comes in waves where you hate everything and want it out of sight and then find out how to love it again. And finding out you love it again and it’s gone is a tough pill to swallow.
 

daturbosix

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For what it's worth, I'm out of pump with a 340 and 80lb injectors. Also on e85, and a whopping 12psi of booya
 

Mr_Roboto

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Don't you have a worked 109 setup though?
 
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v6buicks

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Bit more than that
Bigger turbo and stuff right? I actually visited your build thread to get some ideas. I don't know how much it matters, but I'm dead serious about removing the Precision SLIC and all the 3" stuff and going back down to the stock 2.5". If it's iffy, I'll sell it. I was just hoping to do it without spending a ton. Did you upgrade lines?
 

daturbosix

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my car is a flat top piston, 11:1-ish, stage II with iron champion heads/ported intake.

stock fuel lines, stock rails, stock hanger in the tank, just with a 340 pump.
the nice think about e85 is that you dont need an extensive intercooler setup. all i have on the white t is Duttweiler neck on a stock intercooler.
 
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v6buicks

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“Never meet your idols”. It works the same for vehicles lol.

I know what it’s like to be burnt out on constantly fixing shit. Fixing daily drivers taking up all the time and energy and leaving none to go around for the toys. Ironically, those are the same toys we bought to enjoy our time working on stuff. Vicious circle.

Wait it out, it comes in waves where you hate everything and want it out of sight and then find out how to love it again. And finding out you love it again and it’s gone is a tough pill to swallow.
I hear that. My attitude toward the car changed the last couple times I pulled it out of storage. It's also a vicious cycle, but it always comes down to this same idea. I love the Camaro. It's staying. I like the 240. I just wish we didn't rely on it to get people to work. The GN has really been for one event a year plus something to drive when the Camaro is down. 😥 It's really sad to think about given how much nicer and cooler the GN is over those.

With that in mind, if I truly get more enjoyment out of a rusty V6 Camaro than I do in a minty GN, then it's probably time to let it go. Even the idea of pulling out the alky system I've hated since day 1 runs through my head like chore and waste of a day rather than an improvement to fleet. Like you said, I'll wait it out. I might get excited again once I get the opportunity to drive it.
 
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my car is a flat top piston, 11:1-ish, stage II with iron champion heads/ported intake.

stock fuel lines, stock rails, stock hanger in the tank, just with a 340 pump.
the nice think about e85 is that you dont need an extensive intercooler setup. all i have on the white t is Duttweiler neck on a stock intercooler.
Holy shit. I need to go through your thread again. Lol. That sounds awesome. Did you ever get your 120s?
 

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Having fun shit and no reliable daily is tough.

When I was trying to cut costs I sold my new F-350 and kept my 7.3. Problem is, 7.3 has never seen salt so I park it in the winters, which turned into buying yet another usable work truck for winter months. I currently have four vehicles that get parked for the winter, two of them are currently rollers... I’m at the point of just listing everything for sale except my Olds and starting fresh.
 

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Have your fun, enjoy hobbies but never let it get to the point where instead of owning stuff, your stuff owns you. That’s how I felt after accumulating what I have over the past 2-3 years.
 
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Have your fun, enjoy hobbies but never let it get to the point where instead of owning stuff, your stuff owns you. That’s how I felt after accumulating what I have over the past 2-3 years.
I wish I could "like" that comment twice.

It absolutely owns me right now. Its a bit messed up that I'm even slightly glad that Indiana is shutting down for COVID. I no longer need an excuse to spend the whole day in the garage doing stuff I don't want to do. 😬

I'm sooo looking forward to kicking the 240 out onto the road, bringing the Camaro inside, and parking it. I'm not doing the valve spring upgrade. I'm not pulling the trans. Its going to sit, and so am I. Probably in my PJs under a blanket watching YouTube with a 6 pack. Lol it's gonna be great.
 

daturbosix

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Holy shit. I need to go through your thread again. Lol. That sounds awesome. Did you ever get your 120s?
i trtied being sneaky and not post much details about the combo at first.
now i kinda dont care. but its really not anything special, lol

nah, didnt get the 120s yet. got busy with work and being short handed.
 

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I wish I could like that twice.

It absolutely owns me right now. Its a bit messed up that I'm even slightly glad that Indiana is shutting down for COVID. I no longer need an excuse to spend the whole day in the garage doing stuff I don't want to do. 😬

I'm sooo looking forward to kicking the 240 out onto the road, bringing the Camaro inside, and parking it. I'm not doing the valve spring upgrade. I'm not pulling the trans. Its going to sit, and so am I. Probably in my PJs under a blanket watching YouTube with a 6 pack. Lol it's gonna be great.
Sometimes you need a break lol. I’ve been going full speed ahead while we still had dry, mild weather. I still have brakes to do on a plow truck I’ll need tomorrow, control arms/ball joints on my one truck, panhard bar on the other...

My rock auto orders have been equating to modest car payments lately lol.
 
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v6buicks

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Home again. I'm starting to hate side post batteries all over again. Twice in two months I've had difficulty getting GM cars started because of connections. Oh well. We got it.
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One of my original bumper fillers is getting really grungy. Otherwise, she's as much of a peach now as when I put her away. AC hasn't leaked out, the alky pump is actually doing it's job well, and I don't really feel motivated to do anything to a car that acts so good. I do have a pretty bad exhaust leak on the passenger side header, but that's definitely a winter project.
 
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I just went through and re-read my thread. My own mood swings with this car are giving me whiplash. All that E85 talk over the winter went down the shitter. First of all, I don't want the added maintenance of E85 on a car that doesn't get raced or even beat on all that much. Second of all, I really don't need this car to be fast. On the other hand, driving the car home yesterday with mostly knock-free hoonage was making me second guess my opinions on that the alky system. Damn, is it fun to watch the the boost gauge peg while the progressive alky control LED and "Power Injection" lights come on. It's like the the hype of "Danger to manifold!" without the stupid inaccuracies. 😆

I think the system still has to go though. It's expensive to fill that tank, there's no good place to put a coolant reservoir, and I'm coming due for needing a pump again soon. I'd rather sell it, get a 93 only chip, and start putting the stock components back in. I'll keep the bigger injectors in and probably keep the boost at 16 psi, but timing will have to be dialed back a bunch. I'll talk to Eric at Turbo Tweak to see if he recommends the 42# injectors I have in there or the 60s I have on the shelf. I'm betting that 42s will be just fine for what I'm doing.
 

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E85 is way less involved than Alky. What added maintenance are you talking about? I never did any to mine.

Look up spoolfool bumper fillers.
 
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v6buicks

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E85 is way less involved than Alky. What added maintenance are you talking about? I never did any to mine.
With E85 or the Alky?

I guess it's not maintenance when it comes to E85, but the inconsistencies and my lack of hardware knowledge. I'm dealing with fuel differences in the Camaro and it throws my tune off because I don't have a flex sensor. It drives me nuts to the point where I'm willing to convert the car over to megasquirt just for that sensor. Given how rarely the GN is driven, it would probably not bother me as much; however, I couldn't get any useful replies on turbobuick in terms of hardware. Everyone insisted that I would need a bigger pump, line upgrades, and 80# injectors which is at least partially a load of shit. lol I know I can get away with 60s if the engine and turbo are stock. I just don't know about the pump. It doesn't seem like anybody makes a pump bigger than mine with stock fuel line connections. I'm not willing to spend the coin or put forth the effort of upgrading the lines. If you have some insight on this, I'm running a Racetronix 255. Mr_Roboto gave some nice info about flow a few posts back, but I had no idea how to use it. lol

As for alky, mine is always leaking, evaporating, and just overall being a POS. I almost got rid of it when I trashed my last pump, but decided to try to fix it and make it a little better instead. I made it a little nicer, but it will always be ugly and clunky in my opinion. I'd rather be slower, simpler, and not constantly fearing the day that the wiring either burns the car down or the module falls out of the kick panel and blocks my brake pedal. The second one has happened once already.
 

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No maintenance with the E85 (I ran this on the 3800SC).

ECM can handle a good amount of variation in ethanol quantity. It only varies from 70-83 and that's winter to summer. Summer is always 83 from what I have seen. Tune for mid 70s % and LTFT handles it from there, this applies to the 3800. For the 3.8, I believe BLM is the ECM's adjustment.

Measure fuel pressure at WOT, if it doesn't drop off, you have enough pump and big enough lines. Keep duty cycle for the injectors below 80% for the 3800. Watch WOT AFR - it maintains where you want it, then you have enough injector. Tune for zero knock and WOT a little rich for a safety cushion.

Hot wire for the pump is always a good idea.
 

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