point by and passing life with 200 hp


Phalabala

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that guy was awesome. holding folks up all day, gave me a point by in the grass between 1-2. I just assumed he meant the sane side and had his right and left backwards.
 

Intel

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Guy sure knows the inside of the track. Looked lost out there. I probably would have gotten stuck behind him for 2 laps. Come into the pits to avoid him and still manage to find him again in a 30 minute session.
 

OmniGLH

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Ok from what I see.... he's making some mistakes but I think he's just confused himself about point-by etiquette.

Given his line looks okay through link-1 and through 2/3... but is SO godawful by the time he gets to 6... my take is this: he was trying to "get out of the way", brain was overloaded so the best he could do the first few turns was just slow down and hope you'd go by. Then when he pointed, he pointed where HE was going vs. where he wanted YOU to go. (You'd be surprised how many people over-think the point direction...)

The challenge with Intermediate group (and this goes for every org I've ever run with) - it's the biggest mix of ability. Guys who only recently got bumped up are one or the other of: over-confident because "hey I'm awesome I just got promoted" or "holy shit I need to go faster now so I don't look like the n00b slow guy in the group." Then you have all that mixed in with guys who have a bunch of experience but are intimidated by bumping up to advanced. And then of course there's always the guys with the SUPER retarded fast-in-a-straight-line cars who can't drive for beans but run everybody over because their car is so fast....

Speaking specifically for LAPS - the groups are usually considered level of awareness and ability. NOT "speed". There are stock Miatas running around in Advanced and they don't have any problems - they keep their eyes up and are quick with the point-bys. If you don't give a point quickly enough, you'll know it because you'll be able to tell their eye color from your rearview mirror :)

I don't know you personally but I know you've done a LOT of events. Maybe ask for a check-ride and a bump at the next event. You'd be giving a lot more point-bys BUT you'll also be a lot less frustrated.
 

N20GT

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Lmao what a noob. Is it normal to leave that much distance between yourself and the guy in front of you, even when they're slow in the turns? Even in intermediate on bikes, it's totally normal to be within ~6' of another bike. In advanced you're damn near touching sometimes

I wouldn't have much patience being stuck behind someone like that. I like being able to buzz people that are taking turns way below the "normal" speed for their group. Helps give a reality check to those that are riding with their egos and just want to say they're "advanced" when really they have no business there
 

Intel

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I mean I agree you can tell he is overloaded. Most people are so focused on what they are doing they forget to check their mirrors/surroundings. Or also look far enough ahead to see flags/accidents/crashes. That is really the big turning point in beginner to intermediate is being able to take in all that information vs having tunnel vision. Then the people forget when you can even pass so they point you by in really awkward spots.

My like second on track experience was in a Lemons car so HPDE just seems "easy" because I am not worried about 80 other shitboxes running into me.
 

Intel

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Lmao what a noob. Is it normal to leave that much distance between yourself and the guy in front of you, even when they're slow in the turns? Even in intermediate on bikes, it's totally normal to be within ~5' of another bike. In advanced you're damn near touching sometimes

I wouldn't have much patience being stuck behind someone like that. I like being able to buzz people that are taking turns way below the "normal" speed for their group. Helps give a reality check to those that are riding with their egos and just want to say they're "advanced" when really they have no business there
So the issue with being that close is that if a car loses control... Which I have watched people loop their cars in intermediate on multiple occasions you don't get much time to react if they do that.

I have had to get pretty close to kind of give the guy a message that my 140whp Mazda3 can keep up with him through all the turns so let me past vs pushing the straights and then me catching up again in the same spot in the next lap. Next track car will have a little more oompfh so hopefully that isn't an issue. I will probably run advanced in the future though.
 
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sickmint79

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Lmao what a noob. Is it normal to leave that much distance between yourself and the guy in front of you, even when they're slow in the turns? Even in intermediate on bikes, it's totally normal to be within ~6' of another bike. In advanced you're damn near touching sometimes

I wouldn't have much patience being stuck behind someone like that. I like being able to buzz people that are taking turns way below the "normal" speed for their group. Helps give a reality check to those that are riding with their egos and just want to say they're "advanced" when really they have no business there
they are more likely to fuck up with the added pressure (and you may follow a mistake they make right off the track not driving your own line) - there's only so much i'll try to push someone vs. weighing my risk that i could drive right into them.
 

N20GT

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I feel car trackdays would be much more boring to me than bike trackdays. Certainly not worth the added cost
 
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sickmint79

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I feel car trackdays would be much more boring to me than bike trackdays. Certainly not worth the added cost
i have a buddy that does both although i think car much more and bike only recently. seems way riskier. couple people died in beginner early at autobahn last year no?
 

N20GT

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i have a buddy that does both although i think car much more and bike only recently. seems way riskier. couple people died in beginner early at autobahn last year no?
I hadn't heard that, but I did hear about someone dying at ACC a few years ago. A lady IIRC

Really doesn't happen often, and normally it's the result of severe rider error. The track is 1000000000000000000x more controlled than the street is
 

OmniGLH

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Lmao what a noob. Is it normal to leave that much distance between yourself and the guy in front of you, even when they're slow in the turns? Even in intermediate on bikes, it's totally normal to be within ~6' of another bike. In advanced you're damn near touching sometimes

I wouldn't have much patience being stuck behind someone like that. I like being able to buzz people that are taking turns way below the "normal" speed for their group. Helps give a reality check to those that are riding with their egos and just want to say they're "advanced" when really they have no business there
Having a bit of experience with both... the big difference is - no mirrors with bikes. So slowpokes generally have NO IDEA someone is behind them until you pass them. With cars people tend to "drive their mirrors" and panic when someone comes up close.

Me and my two old teammate's favorite thing to do on 2-wheelers back in the day was to scare the shit out of the "control riders" (who almost all had "big head syndrome" at NESBA events). Wanna talk about ego - go pick on those guys and watch their heads explode.

I recall one event, DanO and I split this "control rider" going into 5, me up the inside, DanO around the outside. I guarantee you he didn't have to check up or adjust his line... we gave him "trackday room" ("racing room" would've been touching his bike... I've had many a Turn-1 starts where I've had my inside knee on the outside panel of the guy inside me - and the guy outside me with HIS knee on MY outside panel...))

Few laps later we both got black flagged... the "control rider" was literally in tears, and Garth told us both, "Ok guys, you gotta dial it back a few notches.... this isn't a race weekend." **squish** goes mr. bighead attitude tho LOL
 

N20GT

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Having a bit of experience with both... the big difference is - no mirrors with bikes. So slowpokes generally have NO IDEA someone is behind them until you pass them. With cars people tend to "drive their mirrors" and panic when someone comes up close.

Me and my two old teammate's favorite thing to do on 2-wheelers back in the day was to scare the shit out of the "control riders" (who almost all had "big head syndrome" at NESBA events). Wanna talk about ego - go pick on those guys and watch their heads explode.

I recall one event, DanO and I split this "control rider" going into 5, me up the inside, DanO around the outside. I guarantee you he didn't have to check up or adjust his line... we gave him "trackday room" ("racing room" would've been touching his bike... I've had many a Turn-1 starts where I've had my inside knee on the outside panel of the guy inside me - and the guy outside me with HIS knee on MY outside panel...))

Few laps later we both got black flagged... the "control rider" was literally in tears, and Garth told us both, "Ok guys, you gotta dial it back a few notches.... this isn't a race weekend." **squish** goes mr. bighead attitude tho LOL
We should be friends!
 

Phalabala

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Ok from what I see.... he's making some mistakes but I think he's just confused himself about point-by etiquette.

Given his line looks okay through link-1 and through 2/3... but is SO godawful by the time he gets to 6... my take is this: he was trying to "get out of the way", brain was overloaded so the best he could do the first few turns was just slow down and hope you'd go by. Then when he pointed, he pointed where HE was going vs. where he wanted YOU to go. (You'd be surprised how many people over-think the point direction...)

The challenge with Intermediate group (and this goes for every org I've ever run with) - it's the biggest mix of ability. Guys who only recently got bumped up are one or the other of: over-confident because "hey I'm awesome I just got promoted" or "holy shit I need to go faster now so I don't look like the n00b slow guy in the group." Then you have all that mixed in with guys who have a bunch of experience but are intimidated by bumping up to advanced. And then of course there's always the guys with the SUPER retarded fast-in-a-straight-line cars who can't drive for beans but run everybody over because their car is so fast....

Speaking specifically for LAPS - the groups are usually considered level of awareness and ability. NOT "speed". There are stock Miatas running around in Advanced and they don't have any problems - they keep their eyes up and are quick with the point-bys. If you don't give a point quickly enough, you'll know it because you'll be able to tell their eye color from your rearview mirror :)

I don't know you personally but I know you've done a LOT of events. Maybe ask for a check-ride and a bump at the next event. You'd be giving a lot more point-bys BUT you'll also be a lot less frustrated.
track control and LAPS usually do a great job of pulling everyone together if it happens too much. First session of the day is usually a shitshow but folks get the hang of it as the day progresses.

I know when I got my checkride last year to move up into intermediate I was told I was too courteous and to really ride someone's ass when I wanted a point-by... but to sickmint's point, I haven't been comfortable doing that because I've seen folks make mistakes when pressured like that, depending on their skill level.
 

OmniGLH

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Intermediate overall had a rough day this week. We had a lot more complaints than usual and a lot more guys needing a "talking to." It was also a really FULL group which I think contributed to the frustrations of some... just not as much open track as usual.
 

Phalabala

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Intermediate overall had a rough day this week. We had a lot more complaints than usual and a lot more guys needing a "talking to." It was also a really FULL group which I think contributed to the frustrations of some... just not as much open track as usual.
It will never be as bad as that day (might have been earlier this year?) when us intermediate folks had to have a second driver's meeting to discuss point-bys with another wristband awarded for participation...
Just speaks to running a good show as best as they can. Us folks just have to work together on-track to have a good day. I think I saw more clear track Monday than I have in a while (hell, I actually got 10 laps in a single session!) but at the same time more black-flag-alls in intermediate than I had seen before?
 

nytebyte

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I once had an instructor tell me in order to deal with drivers like that, you need to "get up right behind them and shove your wet little doggy nose right up their ass crack".

It usually worked and they got the message. 🐶
 

OmniGLH

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It’s one of my more favorite things to do ;)

My definition of “close” is, I’m sure, much much closer than their definition ;)
 
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sickmint79

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Having a bit of experience with both... the big difference is - no mirrors with bikes. So slowpokes generally have NO IDEA someone is behind them until you pass them. With cars people tend to "drive their mirrors" and panic when someone comes up close.

Me and my two old teammate's favorite thing to do on 2-wheelers back in the day was to scare the shit out of the "control riders" (who almost all had "big head syndrome" at NESBA events). Wanna talk about ego - go pick on those guys and watch their heads explode.

I recall one event, DanO and I split this "control rider" going into 5, me up the inside, DanO around the outside. I guarantee you he didn't have to check up or adjust his line... we gave him "trackday room" ("racing room" would've been touching his bike... I've had many a Turn-1 starts where I've had my inside knee on the outside panel of the guy inside me - and the guy outside me with HIS knee on MY outside panel...))

Few laps later we both got black flagged... the "control rider" was literally in tears, and Garth told us both, "Ok guys, you gotta dial it back a few notches.... this isn't a race weekend." **squish** goes mr. bighead attitude tho LOL
yikes that is wild, can't imagine going around a turn on a track while touching others.

I once had an instructor tell me in order to deal with drivers like that, you need to "get up right behind them and shove your wet little doggy nose right up their ass crack".

It usually worked and they got the message. 🐶
sounds like someone who probably shouldn't be an instructor
 

OmniGLH

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yikes that is wild, can't imagine going around a turn on a track while touching others.
Bikes don't take up as much space - so everybody aims for that same piece of pavement. Usually the entirety of the first two rows of grid... at once. LOL. If your knee isn't in the dirt - then there's room for one more.
 

WhiteKnuckleScat

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This is what I had my first three sessions :(
Tried to go through the pit lane once, but there were just a few individuals that weren't aware or they would give a single point by when there was a whole conga line behind them.
 

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