Old hp vs new hp


DEEZUZ

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I have always wondered about this.

I see older cars advertised with what I think is high horsepower. But what were those cars actually making and what were they running down the 1/4 mile?

To me, it seems everything was a turd back then.. I'm talking 60s and 70s muscle cars.... Like.... We're they really running like 11 seconds 1/4s? I just don't see it.....

It's kinda hard to explain what I'm saying. Most of this is derived from hearing old people talking and 500 hp this and running 9s that... But back then...? I don't see it happening
 
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DEEZUZ

DEEZUZ

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Like this is from a article on the 67 firebird

400 V8 (the same as the GTO) which rated 325-hp.
 

walbsy

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They have stock/restored older muscle cars, that run 11 or 12 second passes stock. Not sure if the tires are the same or not, but it was happening.

I do know what you mean though....kind of like the past was "fluffy HP"
 

Mook

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I'd believe it. Werent pretty much most muscle cars back in the day way underated?

Pressure Ratio Pressure Ratio, this is actually up your alley.
 

SHARKBITEATTACK

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A lot of big block cars were making over 400hp on leaded gasoline before emissions, catalytic converters and the gas crisis. I think at some point they changed how HP is measured, used to be measured without the parasitic loss of the accessories.

I think the biggest reason for slow 1/4 times was that tires sucked.
 

GLADIATOR

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I have always wondered about this.

I see older cars advertised with what I think is high horsepower. But what were those cars actually making and what were they running down the 1/4 mile?

To me, it seems everything was a turd back then.. I'm talking 60s and 70s muscle cars.... Like.... We're they really running like 11 seconds 1/4s? I just don't see it.....

It's kinda hard to explain what I'm saying. Most of this is derived from hearing old people talking and 500 hp this and running 9s that... But back then...? I don't see it happening
Give an example of an older car advertising high horsepower.
 

Blood on Blood

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Suspension
Tires
Weight (in some cases)
Transmissions (autos slow shifting, along w/ gearing)
 

CMNTMXR57

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A lot of big block cars were making over 400hp on leaded gasoline before emissions, catalytic converters and the gas crisis. I think at some point they changed how HP is measured, used to be measured without the parasitic loss of the accessories.

I think the biggest reason for slow 1/4 times was that tires sucked.
In the early 70's it changed. It was initially SAE "Gross" HP ratings with engines on a stand, no air cleaners, no exhaust (after the manifolds or some even being tested with headers), no accesory belt drives, and a very fine tuned carb in a controlled environment.

Those mighty LS-6 454's in Chevelles made monster numbers in SAE "Gross", but when all things went SAE "net", they weren't as beastly.
 

CMNTMXR57

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1972...

It's in this Haggerty article;

 

Pressure Ratio

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I have always wondered about this.

I see older cars advertised with what I think is high horsepower. But what were those cars actually making and what were they running down the 1/4 mile?

To me, it seems everything was a turd back then.. I'm talking 60s and 70s muscle cars.... Like.... We're they really running like 11 seconds 1/4s? I just don't see it.....

It's kinda hard to explain what I'm saying. Most of this is derived from hearing old people talking and 500 hp this and running 9s that... But back then...? I don't see it happening
The HP thing was addressed already. The ET part of this is old-timers wanting to believe new cars couldn't touch their beloved "True" muscle cars.

Most of those muscle cars ran 14 + 15 second 1/4 miles times. Even with the HP being underrated in some cars, the tire technology killed any potential the cars had. The factory, skinny, bias-ply tires, couldn't make the most of ant power these cars had. Some may have gone into the 13's. Most ran header, slicks, and tune-ups to run 12's and into the 11's.

Here is a cool video that I just came across that uses magazine articles from the era to show the quickest cars back then.








Here is an article that shows some early cars versus newer cars. Kind of neat to see.



Check out the F.A.S.T. Muscle car series. It stands for Factory Appearing, Stock, Tire. These cars look stock and have limited changes they can make. Some of the SB cars run 14's down to the 11's. Some of the BB cars actually have made 9 second passes. But these are far from production, showroom cars. But a "What if you used all the hotrod tricks available?" deal.
 

Ron Vogel

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Back in 2006 a friend of mine dropped a 454 HO crate engine in his ‘69 Chevelle. 4 speed car, 3:08 rear end. Stock suspension, little wider tires.
Once he got it dialed in, we went out to Byron to test it out. I had my GTP back then, and ran it also. I was running 12.1-12.2 all day. Best he could muster was a 13.75 (I don’t remember his mph).

I know GTP’s don’t dyno right, but at that time iirc I was dynoing 320ish. The 454ho is probably 450hp/500tq out of the crate.

explain that? Chevelle is not that heavy, and I was about 3300.
 

Pressure Ratio

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A 1970 Chevelle SS 454 is like a little over 3800 pounds. Add 200 pounds for a driver. So not exactly a lightweight car either. What did that crate motor make to the crank? 375 hp or so? That's probably a 13.75 at around 100-102 mph. That 3.08 gear isn't helping him any. Probably an open rear end with that gear?

Compare that to a 1996 LT1 Camaro. 310ish hp and slightly less weight. That article I posted said the 310 hp Camaro ran 13.46. Newer cars just are more efficient and put the power to better use.
 

Ron Vogel

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The 454HO should be 450/500. He either wheel hopped or spun. The suspension was all stock, even with a better driver it would have never been in the 12’s. The original 307 in the car was anemic.

motor link:
 

IceCreamAssassin

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Technology for suspension and tires back then sucked. Also everything was carbureted, so unless you really knew how to tune for the strip you left power on the table. There was some racers who could take a stock muscle car and make some changes to run 11’s and under, but I think straight from the factory floor there was very few that could do that.
there were a couple though like the old copo cars, yenkos, ZL1 Vettes camaros chevelles novas, etc.
 

Shawn1112

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I think the biggest reason for slow 1/4 times was that tires sucked.
And they were steel tanks
The HP thing was addressed already. The ET part of this is old-timers wanting to believe new cars couldn't touch their beloved "True" muscle cars.

Most of those muscle cars ran 14 + 15 second 1/4 miles times. Even with the HP being underrated in some cars, the tire technology killed any potential the cars had. The factory, skinny, bias-ply tires, couldn't make the most of ant power these cars had. Some may have gone into the 13's. Most ran header, slicks, and tune-ups to run 12's and into the 11's.



Just to add on to this. My 06 Charger with a cam and bolt ons ran high 12's/low 13's on good days. I was in staging lane at GLD and was airing my tires down. Couple of old timers in a 67 Vette with a 427 starting talking shit to me in a fun way. "Hey Dave look at this guy, he really thinks thats gonna help against your vette blah blah blah". Well I gapped the fuck out of him and returned to the staging lanes as they were closing so was gonna hot lap it to get another pass in. These guys came back to the staging lanes and lost their shit, like I really hurt their feelings. Started accusing me of spraying, one guy said "I've driven one of these piece of shits, they arent that fast". I lol and told them its 100% stock, OMG were they pissed. Told them I'd run them again and give the the hit, but lets do it for $100, they werent game.
 

Ryan02Stang

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My mother in law a few months ago at a family party said "Its a shame they never made cars fast again like they did when I was a kid".....referring to 60's muscle cars. My father in law just started laughing...

She was mind blown when I told her the Ford Explorer I bought her daughter is faster than just about every 60's muscle car....
 

Thirdgen89GTA

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Its been said in this thread before. The majority of the Muscle Cars in the 60's and 70's were just 14's. Granted it was on crap tires so not only did they feel faster because they could spin the tires at will, but it took a while for them to put what power they did have down. But they really weren't as fast as many people remember them to be.

there are a few cars, that DID run insane speeds like the 427 ZL1 and other specialty engines that GM & Ford snuck out the doors for homologation.

I also see the same thing happening with Thirdgen's on the Thirdgen.org forums. Guys swear by how fast their L98 cars are and get really insulted at the thought of a 4 cylinder car being faster. They really, REALLY don't like to hear it when I call their cars slow and tell them I'll race them in my "rice rocket".
 
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DEEZUZ

DEEZUZ

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It's just so fucking assanine to hear old fucks talk about fast cars.... Our old man driver has a done up 60s chevelle, some 289 ci or something. Sware to fuck its fast:ROFLMAO:

Told him to bring a neck brace in and I'd take him for a ride in the camaro
 

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