GM New tahoe and suburban (2021)


Kensington

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The EBV6 is the only engine in the expo/navi. So yes, it is the biggest volume seller by default.



You can deny it all you want. People aren't buying the expo/navi in droves as expected and one of the reasons why, is in a 3+ton brick, when you plunk down the coin you are for one of these and then plan to keep it 20 years, consumers don't want an TTV6. Those other vehicles mentioned have different target demos and different uses/applications, different consumer ownership lifespans, etc.. Again, sales tell the tale.
The 5.0 is only 25% of the take rate of the F-150, so little they've cut production because the demand on the EcoBoost is so high
 

CMNTMXR57

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But this isn't an F-150 discussion.

The expo/navi have only had the 3.5L TTV6 since the previous generation in 2015.
 

Kensington

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But this isn't an F-150 discussion.

The expo/navi have only had the 3.5L TTV6 since the previous generation in 2015.
Except, the sales of the Expo have steadily increased to 50% more in 2018 since the EcoBoost was introduced in 2015. Heck, there was a marked increase in sales, with the old chassis and EcoBoost, over the old 5.4.
 

CMNTMXR57

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When you sold 1 Expo the year before and this year you sold 2... Sometimes things can be a little misleading.

Their sales should have naturally increased between the decade plus old platform and this new platform. But they haven't made much of a dent (if at all) in GM's dominance in this category. GM holds 75% - 80% of this market to themselves. The remaining 20% - 25% are split up between fomoco, toyota and nissan. End of story.
 

N20GT

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When you sold 1 Expo the year before and this year you sold 2... Sometimes things can be a little misleading.

Their sales should have naturally increased between the decade plus old platform and this new platform. But they haven't made much of a dent (if at all) in GM's dominance in this category.
You GM guys crack me up...this statement is just straight up inaccurate, look at the chart below. Ford sold more expy's than GM sold suburbans, by a long shot, and it basically matched the Yukon. That's A LOT of market share the expy has taken from GM.

If you think these numbers aren't concerning for GM, IDK what to tell you. If they were an infallible maker of perfect SUV's they wouldn't be giving up this much market share to Ferd . This ugly ass redesign definitely isn't a slam dunk by any means, so they could slide further rather than regain what they lost in the past year

Take the Tesla warthog, put a shitty small diesel in it and a chevy badge on the hood, and I guarantee the TCG GM fanatics would be in here defending it.

1576180771992.png
 

Kensington

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My whole point is, people WANT the EcoBoost, they don't want Ford V8's anymore. There's a few trusty V8 people out there, but I would wager the majority of F-150 owners that are opting for the V8 are getting a screaming deal, because they are becoming harder and harder to push off the lot. No matter what you say, people want the EcoBoost, and having it as the sole option in the Expo/Navi was the right decision. And that was evidenced by the fact that they threw the engine into the old chassis, and immediately saw increase in sales, even on the old chassis and design.
 

EmersonHart13

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You GM guys crack me up...this statement is just straight up inaccurate, look at the chart below. Ford sold more expy's than GM sold suburbans, by a long shot, and it basically matched the Yukon. That's A LOT of market share the expy has taken from GM.

If you think these numbers aren't concerning for GM, IDK what to tell you. If they were an infallible maker of perfect SUV's they wouldn't be giving up this much market share to Ferd . This ugly ass redesign definitely isn't a slam dunk by any means, so they could slide further rather than regain what they lost in the past year

Take the Tesla warthog, put a shitty small diesel in it and a chevy badge on the hood, and I guarantee the TCG GM fanatics would be in here defending it.

View attachment 46534
Numbers! I suggested this hours ago! I love facts
 

ilikemtb999

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Curious where the explorer fits in. I feel like I see those everywhere
 

CMNTMXR57

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You GM guys crack me up...this statement is just straight up inaccurate, look at the chart below. Ford sold more expy's than GM sold suburbans, by a long shot, and it basically matched the Yukon. That's A LOT of market share the expy has taken from GM.

If you think these numbers aren't concerning for GM, IDK what to tell you. If they were an infallible maker of perfect SUV's they wouldn't be giving up this much market share to Ferd . This ugly ass redesign definitely isn't a slam dunk by any means, so they could slide further rather than regain what they lost in the past year

Take the Tesla warthog, put a shitty small diesel in it and a chevy badge on the hood, and I guarantee the TCG GM fanatics would be in here defending it.

View attachment 46534
GM boi here is gonna crack you up... GM sells Full size SUV's across THREE brands. Here you only have TWO of the three and those TWO, based on this chart, combined sold 57,435 vehicles to fords 18,586.

Last I checked 57,000 > 19,000

57,000 * 4 quarters a year (not factoring in any cyclicity) is 228k per year, and I know from historical GM press releases, the three combined sold between 275k - 300k per year.

19,000 * 4 quarters a year (not factoring in any cyclicity) is 76,000 per year. Historically ford expo sales have hovered in the 50k range annually.

So again, GM isn't in any threat of losing their sales dominance.

You were saying... Gawd I LOVE facts.
 
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CMNTMXR57

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And one problem with that chart, it doesn't break out SWB and LWB Expo's, and is obviously missing the navigator (but then again, it's missing the Escalade, so I'll call that a draw). But regardless the expo is the volume seller of the two, so...

So since they are lumping both wheelbase expos in to one category, doing the same with the Chevy's are 38,699 to 18,586.
 
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N20GT

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GM boi here is gonna crack you up... GM sells Full size SUV's across THREE brands. Here you only have TWO of the three and those TWO, based on this chart, combined sold 57,435 vehicles to fords 18,586.

Last I checked 57,000 > 19,000

57,000 * 4 quarters a year (not factoring in any cyclicity) is 228k per year, and I know from historical GM press releases, the three combined sold between 275k - 300k per year.

19,000 * 4 quarters a year (not factoring in any cyclicity) is 76,000 per year. Historically ford expo sales have hovered in the 50k range annually.

So again, GM isn't in any threat of losing their sales dominance.

You were saying... Gawd I LOVE facts.
I never said GM wasn't the number one seller, but the fact that Ford grew by 6k vehicles in a year means they took over 10% of GM's fullsize SUV market share (6/57 = 10.5%).

How can you look at it and say "Herpa derpa GM is huge ford can't keep up" given that fact? Do you have any idea how significant that loss is year-over-year?

They don't get paid to be the #1 SUV manufacturer, they get paid by each vehicle they sell, so losing 10% of their fullsize SUV revenue/market share is a big deal

And now they came out with this ugly ass redesign that may not bode well for future sales
 

N20GT

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So by your logic as long as GM sells over 19k SUV's per year they win...lol.

Nevermind the fact that they'd be bankrupt at those volumes
 

EmersonHart13

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I miss the old days.... Used vehicles were cheap and plentiful

Calendar YearChevrolet SuburbanGMC SuburbanYukon XLTotal U.S. sales
1996[185]94,01043,161137,171
199799,06843,137142,205
1998[186]108,93342,423151,356
1999[186]138,97744,8861,857185,720
2000[187]133,1234,77647,016184,915
2001[187]154,7829470,706225,582
2002[citation needed]151,05667,556218,612
2003[citation needed]135,22270,887206,109
2004[188]119,54565,917185,462
2005[188]87,01153,652140,663
2006[189]77,21145,413122,624
2007[190]83,67345,303128,976
2008[190]54,05826,40480,462
2009[191]41,05516,81957,874
2010[192]45,15223,79768,949
2011[193]49,42725,22374,650
201248,11623,42771,543
2013[194]51,26031,25882,518
2014[195]55,00929,75284,761
2015[196]50,86631,33482,200
2016[197]60,08237,05497,136
2017[198]56,51635,05991,575
2018[199]60,633N/A60,633
 

CMNTMXR57

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I never said GM wasn't the number one seller, but the fact that Ford grew by 6k vehicles in a year means they took over 10% of GM's fullsize SUV market share (6/57 = 10.5%).

How can you look at it and say "Herpa derpa GM is huge ford can't keep up" given that fact? Do you have any idea how significant that loss is year-over-year?

They don't get paid to be the #1 SUV manufacturer, they get paid by each vehicle they sell, so losing 10% of their fullsize SUV revenue/market share is a big deal

And now they came out with this ugly ass redesign that may not bode well for future sales
You're trying to claim that any sales gain by ford is an incremental sales decline in GM sales and that can't be proven. 1 new expo sold doesn't always equate to 1 Suburban sale lost.

I have proven though, as I have in previous discussions on this topic, that GM's sales remain fairly consistent year over year over year and haven't been impacted in a very large amount by this new expo/navi as those in Dearborn wished it had been. Ford had a REAL chance in the last year and half to kick down some of GM's doors with this new vehicle and they have not! Plain and simple. Even some auto rags, while proclaiming the fit and finish and some other details of the new expo is class leading, that ford needed a home run to take on GM but didn't get it.

And here we are. GM's next gen is coming out, it offers more engine choices, suspension choices, more room inside, more refinement, more variations, 3 brands (once the GMC and Cadillac options are shown), and as such, I expect that market dominance will continue and probably increase.
 

jason05gt

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The EBV6 is the only engine in the expo/navi. So yes, it is the biggest volume seller by default.

You can deny it all you want. People aren't buying the expo/navi in droves as expected and one of the reasons why, is in a 3+ton brick, when you plunk down the coin you are for one of these and then plan to keep it 20 years, consumers don't want an TTV6. Those other vehicles mentioned have different target demos and different uses/applications, different consumer ownership lifespans, etc.. Again, sales tell the tale.
You might want to check your data there. Sales are up almost 50% YOY.


Scroll down a bit in the article and it shows the Expedition vs the competition. All of GM's SUV's are down double digit in Q3 and Ford is stealing share, as I said was going to happen 2 years ago.
 

CMNTMXR57

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You might want to check your data there. Sales are up almost 50% YOY.


Scroll down a bit in the article and it shows the Expedition vs the competition. All of GM's SUV's are down double digit in Q3 and Ford is stealing share, as I said was going to happen 2 years ago.
Please catch up with the thread.
 

N20GT

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I have proven though, as I have in previous discussions on this topic, that GM's sales remain fairly consistent year over year over year and haven't been impacted in a very large amount by this new expo/navi as those in Dearborn wished it had been.
Dude...how have you proven this? This is like the simplest math in the world

Yukon/Tahoe/Burban Q3 2018 sales = 65,421 vehicles
Yukon/Tahoe/Burban Q3 2019 sales = 57,400 vehicles

That's a 12%, 8,000 vehicle decrease

Expy Q3 2018 sales = 12,587 vehicles
Expy Q3 2019 sales = 18,586 units

That's a 6,000 vehicle, 48% increase

You really think they aren't related???
 

jason05gt

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Dude...how have you proven this? This is like the simplest math in the world

Yukon/Tahoe/Burban Q3 2018 sales = 65,421 vehicles
Yukon/Tahoe/Burban Q3 2019 sales = 57,400 vehicles

That's a 12%, 8,000 vehicle decrease

Expy Q3 2018 sales = 12,587 vehicles
Expy Q3 2019 sales = 18,586 units

That's a 6,000 vehicle, 48% increase

You really think they aren't related???
Maybe he likes charts:

TOTAL-3.35%84,93787,885+5.98%269,843254,611
MODELQ3 19 / Q3 18Q3 19Q3 18Q3 19 SHAREQ3 18 SHAREYTD 19 / YTD 18YTD 19YTD 18
CHEVROLET TAHOE-9.13%26,30828,95131%33%+0.79%80,10379,474
GMC YUKON-10.33%18,73720,89622%24%-3.09%53,70755,418
FORD EXPEDITION+47.66%18,58612,58722%14%+53.39%62,15540,521
CHEVROLET SUBURBAN-20.43%12,39115,57215%18%-8.25%41,68645,433
NISSAN ARMADA-18.28%5,8967,2157%8%-4.10%24,60925,660
TOYOTA SEQUOIA+13.33%3,0192,6644%3%-6.44%7,5838,105
 

N20GT

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:slapforehead:
Looking for an actual response...I really don't understand what your argument is. Ford is taking market share in the segment at a rapid rate. Your argument is what...that GM doesn't have to care about losing 8,000 vehicles sold Q3/18 to Q3/19 while their competitor gains market share? That's hundreds of millions in revenue they gave up to the competition in a single quarter.

And now they have a fugly SUV redesign that might not stem their market share losses
 

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