🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

General Information

Hello! Welcome to the shit show! I am updating this post in 2021 to explain what new readers are about to witness. If I knew that this thread and build were going to explode into what it is today, I would have started it out a lot different.

This car was (and still is) a basket case. The whole inspiration for starting this project was to start learning how to modify engines in a car that I didn't like. That way, if and when I screwed up, I wouldn't be ruining a nice car. It spiraled out of control from the first moment that I felt boost. I loved what I had created, but it took a ton of work to get to where I was. As soon as I got the car running nicely I was always saying "I'm going to fix______, and THEN I'll just enjoy driving it." You know the drill. Drive, break, fix, repeat! Before I knew it, I enjoyed driving and working on this turd more than the nice car I was trying to preserve!

The point is that the focus of this thread shifts A LOT. To complicate matters, I never have just one ongoing project open at a time. I listed some thread contents with links below. I will update this as new milestones or big updates happen. Just know that even if you click on the shortcut, you may have to scroll past other project posts to reveal the outcome. There are also some mini-projects and very helpful advice from other members in between, so read the whole dang thing if you want!

2018-2019
1. A late introduction
2. Discovering how a PCV works (and plugging it)
3. Custom grill for intercooler
4. Fuel pump trap door
5. Learning that I'll never learn anything from my goofy wide band gauge
6. Deleting AC completely, but retaining heat
2020
7. Low profile heater hose fittings
8. Deleting an air bag without setting a light on the dash
9. Starting a second round of floor repairs
10. ABS delete and line lock installation
- A separate thread for the electrons
11. Installing catch cans with nice brackets (Way overkill)
12. Figuring out the "blow by" problem once and for all (F-body intake plug)
13. Second clutch job, first rear cover job, and preliminary transmission swap research
14. Floors are "done", and Interior is installed.
15. I don't know how to tune, but this wide band might help.
16. Poly trans mount. Yeah, it actually deserves a link.
17. I waved the tuning white flag. Dyno Brian sets me straight!
18. T5 Pro5.0 shifter
19. New shifter was too much fun. OG T5 explodes, and my transmission conversion ideas start to get serious.
-TKX conversion
-TKX swap official write-up
20. Reconfiguring my exhaust for a quieter and less leaky future
21. I'm not done enjoying this car for the year, so I install a $100 T5 instead of a bulletproof conversion. SPOILER ALERT: It only lasts two months.
22. Minor repairs/updates that make the car livable (lighting, stereo, speedometer re-zero, and a clutch master cylinder that actually does it's job!)
23. Wheels and addressing rust again since I got time!
2021
24. Custom center caps
25. 1.9 roller rockers and LS6 springs
26. CAI V2.0
27. TKX is delayed so it's time to address the little annoyances.
-OE pan is junk. Dorman pan gets hot rodded
28. TKX is still delayed, so I install just one poly engine mount and beef up my flimsy turbo drain plumbing
29. TKX does NOT ship the following Monday. Flywheel bolts upgraded to ARP M10 x 1.0
30. When you're on a Chinese garbage budget, you better be ready to work harder. (Oil drain fitting hot rodding)
31. Finally repairing the oil sender pig tail, replacing the other engine mount, and test fitting the TKX.
32. Finally addressing rear brake lines while I wait for more transmission parts.
33. Modifying an ICM for a WOT box
34. Dash gets re-instrumented so that diagnostics become possible.
35. N2MB WOT box
36. Porked crank key. PSA: Be careful installing your balancer!
37. Car runs great after plug change, but the rear main seal needs to be changed again.
38. BURNOUT! Also, I kinda bought a cam.
39. Turbo drain finale (better be) and full exhaust commenced
2022
40. Downpipe V3 and BMR strut tower brace
41. Panhard bar and relocation for bro truck exhaust
42. Muffler, driveshaft, torque arm, and giving up smoking.
43. First trip to the GS Nationals (feat. time slip)
44. The very custom AC project is born
45. New dyno results (up 50 hp!)
46. Exhaust hanger repair before Michigan/S.S. Badger/Wisconsin trip
47. Sizing a better turbo
48. Painting but still not installing the IS3 heads and Monster clutch unboxing
49. Firewall brace
50. New ECM
2023
51. Out of storage and SC engine buy failure #3
52. Modified double roller and spitballing crankcase evac ideas
53. Completing the rear suspension. UMI rear control arms.
54. Cracked headers and L32 swap begins
55. My newest L32 was trash. I'm upgrading the L36 instead
56. Side project: The ultimate-ish intake manifold takes shape


Now back to 2018!
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Now that this car is running and driving, I figured I would start a thread dedicated to all the questions I’m about to pummel this group with. This is the first time I've really built anything to move quicker than stock, so I'm hoping to learn a lot from you guys before I make unnecessary mistakes. I also have a thread in the Turbobuick.com 3800 section, but I'm not getting as much input there due to a lack of audience. Here goes nothing...

The car I have is a 2002 Camaro with only ONE factory option (rear window defogger). The story supposedly goes that my buddy's dad was looking forever for a new Camaro because he never buys anything for a penny more than the best deal. He almost ran out of time as this was the final model year for the F-body, and '03s were already on the market. The dealer from which he found this car bought it for the sole purpose of being able to advertise "Brand new Camaros for under $10k", so this was the one he took home.

Fast forward to 2018. The car was structurally a wreck from living in the rust belt, but has a great interior, okay black paint, a third pedal, a 3800 (which is a plus in my book), and a lot of sentimental value since I remember riding in it when it was brand new. My buddy’s dad handed me the keys in hopes that I would enjoy it and make it a race car. To be honest, I don’t care for F-bodies, but I couldn't resist this one for the reasons above despite knowing that the floors were in desperate need of existing again.

I already had my dream car which is a 1986 Buick Regal Grand National. As much as I love that car, I like it the way it is in fairly stock form and modifying Buicks has gotten terribly expensive anyway. I figured a black 3800 Camaro could easily fulfill my childhood dreams of racing a badass turbo Buick V6 car while being on a budget, so here I am.

The car is now equipped with:
-6765 ebay turbo
-Precision PW40 wastegate
-Custom turbo exhaust utilizing a stock Camaro and FWD manifolds
-Air to air ebay intercooler
-AEM 50-1200 fuel pump
-Siemens Deka 80# fuel injectors
-Open 3” downpipe
-Custom 3” charge pipes
-Intense mail order tune
-Very ugly but functional upright radiator conversion (the core support was all just rust anyway) :dunno:
-Custom space saving AC delete without bypass pulley
-Midwest Chassis bumper support modified to mount my intercooler
-Spec Stage 1 clutch kit

The car is far from refined and has a lot of little issues to sort out, but I will leave the first post as sort of an introduction to that. I hope you enjoy hearing about it. It’s been fun to build!

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GTPpower

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I figured that was the case. I've had to dick around with thermisters and thermocouples with my 3d printer stuff to know which ones work better for certain applications. I guess given the context here though, since the PCM can't use a thermocouple, I don't see how you can use them to tune since the PCM is only going to see the IAT sensor output. Maybe I'm just being narrowminded again but I'm interested in the knowledge.

You might be able to wire it to work with the pcm, but I'm not for sure if that works.

It's really not a super critical sensor. It only controls timing and the air conditioner in certain situations. It's easy enough to zero out the table and run it. I ran without one for many years.
 

v6buicks

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Okay cool. That was what I was figuring too, but I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. I could see how the brass tip style could get easily heat soaked without air movement, but I can't see a lack of air movement in this spot swinging the temp signal off more than a degree or so with the open element. Whenever I have to pull the UIM or throttle body off again for some reason I'll check this out from the inside. I'm sure it's fine though.
 
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v6buicks

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Woohoo! The AFC and wideband are here. I started taking the old wideband stuff out, but got a bit distracted by the fact that the new gauge was not going to work in the pod as-is.
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These slim fit gauges are pretty slick when you don't have deep custom pods! Oh well. That can be dealt with. Its definitely quick and dirty, but only myself (and the whole internet) is going to know it's there!
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Yeah, I'm not proud of these cuts, but small and precise metal work is really not something I'm equipped to do.

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If I reeeaaally felt like screwing around with this longer I would have drilled two holes in a bigger piece of metal and then cut it to size, but I didn't really think that through. Then again. Outa sight. Outa mind!

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I also decided to move the wideband to more eyeball friendly location, and move boost out to the end where it belongs. Now it's going to bother the hell out of me that I have one LED w/ 7 segment gauge, an LCD display, and a mechanical needle with mismatched trim ?. Maybe when my finances are in more stable times I'll bump the auto boost controller up in priority.
 

v6buicks

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Thanks! This is an instance where a 3d printer would be pretty handy. Mattstrike Mattstrike has me pretty jealous while I follow the Montana thread. Oh well. Maybe someday! Until then I'll get by. I have my fingers crossed that this works out better for me. I'm very relieved to see that AEM put a different plug on this gauge which actually has a locking tab. The old never made a positive connection. You just had to shove that tiny plug in and then smash the dash back together hoping that it didn't fall out. It usually took three tries. Dumbest design for an electrical connection I've ever seen.
 
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v6buicks

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I hate being in here. ?
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So far so good though! I definitely underestimated how terrible my harnesses were routed though. It wasn't so bad that I had to cut anything, but it was annoying enough that I'm no longer mad about the new gauge being completely different. There are less wires that I need to connect on the new one, but I'm adding another connector anyway. I think it would be nice to just crimp a new connector on to a new harness if I ever needed to do this again for some reason.

Check out my for sale ad if you want the old one!
 
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v6buicks

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I got done bending my back the wrong way so that I could wire under the dash again just to find out that the gauge is powered by a constant 12V and won't turn off. ? Now I'm in the console again. I'm really hungover, and it's really humid in the garage. Maybe I'll finish this tonight, or maybe I'll just more TV. At least the area above the radio isn't a rat's nest anymore.
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,
 

Mr_Roboto

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I hate being in here. ?
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So far so good though! I definitely underestimated how terrible my harnesses were routed though. It wasn't so bad that I had to cut anything, but it was annoying enough that I'm no longer mad about the new gauge being completely different. There are less wires that I need to connect on the new one, but I'm adding another connector anyway. I think it would be nice to just crimp a new connector on to a new harness if I ever needed to do this again for some reason.

Check out my for sale ad if you want the old one!

Does the bezel unscrew off the new one? If so I may have something a bit closer you can have.
 

v6buicks

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By the way, I pulled myself together and put the car back together with the switched 12V I needed from the unused TCS harness. Now it won't run ?. It cranks and sputters a little, but then the battery was dead and wouldn't crank it anymore. I'm gonna sit here and let it charge, but I have a feeling that I have another problem.

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v6buicks

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After once again forgetting to hook up the signal - on the wideband I spent the morning adding that in and went for a cruise! I'm loving this wideband and the new location! It so much easier to read and pay attention to. Attached are a couple WOT pulls.
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Next I'm going to install the AFC per ZZPs instructions
  • Take 100 and divide it by the number that you enter in the MiniAFC, then multiply that result by itself two more times. The end result you will use to multiply the entire MAF chart by.
  • For example, set the MiniAFC to 90% and then multiply the entire PCM's MAF chart by 1.372
I'm going to start at 80%. If my calculations are right, I'll multiply this entire chart by 1.953. Does that sound right? Is there anything else I need to do? I'll wait around for answers before I do anything. I have to do an oil change on this thing anyway. There's so much water in the oil it's despicable.
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  • new wideband test.hpl
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v6buicks

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I have mine set at 82%. Their method didn't work for me and I ended up increasing it by about 18%.

I would still try it their way though. Maybe I rushed through the math too fast.
Interesting. Increasing what? The dip switch setting? So you started around 64?

I'm just going to go for it. ZZP makes it sound easy, but the rest of the internet is only yielding "get a bigger MAF" and "Just go SD."
 

GTPpower

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Interesting. Increasing what? The dip switch setting? So you started around 64?

I'm just going to go for it. ZZP makes it sound easy, but the rest of the internet is only yielding "get a bigger MAF" and "Just go SD."

I increased the maf scaling. Now that I'm thinking about this though, mine is a very old version and I'm not sure I found the correct instructions for it. I set it at 82% because that's what zzp sets their fixed afc at, which my buddy ran for years. So I could have help if I needed.

You are definitely doing it the best way. SD sucks on 3800's. The only worthwhile maf upgrade is the ls7 and there are huge issues tuning it. It makes your old wideband look like a cakewalk.
 
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v6buicks

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Lol I'm glad to hear that somebody agrees. I'd never consider SD on a stock ECM. I may be new to tuning, but it's pretty clear that this ECM is not meant to control an engine that way. If the MAF and AFC set-up start to get sketchy I'll switch the ECM over to a Holly or something. I probably won't do it in this car though. If I go that far, I'll be swapping over to a G-body Regal.

That's all just a pipe dream though. I changed the oil, hooked up the AFC, and loaded the tune. As expected, the AFC really cluttered up the throttle. lol I'm not sure how I'm going to fix that, but I'm not worried about it yet.
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The car pulls to much higher RPMs, but I'm noticing a lot of KR in some pulls.
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I'm not sure what to make of it this time. The power band doesn't feel quite as smooth as it did before the changes besides no longer falling on it's face when the MAF maxed. You guys have any idea which way I should go next?
 

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  • AFC 80% 5-24-20.hpt
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  • afc 1 cruise.hpl
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  • afc 2 pull.hpl
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  • afc 3 cruise.hpl
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  • afc4 restart car.hpl
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  • afc5 pull.hpl
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  • acf6 cruise.hpl
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