🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

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Hello! Welcome to the shit show! I am updating this post in 2021 to explain what new readers are about to witness. If I knew that this thread and build were going to explode into what it is today, I would have started it out a lot different.

This car was (and still is) a basket case. The whole inspiration for starting this project was to start learning how to modify engines in a car that I didn't like. That way, if and when I screwed up, I wouldn't be ruining a nice car. It spiraled out of control from the first moment that I felt boost. I loved what I had created, but it took a ton of work to get to where I was. As soon as I got the car running nicely I was always saying "I'm going to fix______, and THEN I'll just enjoy driving it." You know the drill. Drive, break, fix, repeat! Before I knew it, I enjoyed driving and working on this turd more than the nice car I was trying to preserve!

The point is that the focus of this thread shifts A LOT. To complicate matters, I never have just one ongoing project open at a time. I listed some thread contents with links below. I will update this as new milestones or big updates happen. Just know that even if you click on the shortcut, you may have to scroll past other project posts to reveal the outcome. There are also some mini-projects and very helpful advice from other members in between, so read the whole dang thing if you want!

2018-2019
1. A late introduction
2. Discovering how a PCV works (and plugging it)
3. Custom grill for intercooler
4. Fuel pump trap door
5. Learning that I'll never learn anything from my goofy wide band gauge
6. Deleting AC completely, but retaining heat
2020
7. Low profile heater hose fittings
8. Deleting an air bag without setting a light on the dash
9. Starting a second round of floor repairs
10. ABS delete and line lock installation
- A separate thread for the electrons
11. Installing catch cans with nice brackets (Way overkill)
12. Figuring out the "blow by" problem once and for all (F-body intake plug)
13. Second clutch job, first rear cover job, and preliminary transmission swap research
14. Floors are "done", and Interior is installed.
15. I don't know how to tune, but this wide band might help.
16. Poly trans mount. Yeah, it actually deserves a link.
17. I waved the tuning white flag. Dyno Brian sets me straight!
18. T5 Pro5.0 shifter
19. New shifter was too much fun. OG T5 explodes, and my transmission conversion ideas start to get serious.
-TKX conversion
-TKX swap official write-up
20. Reconfiguring my exhaust for a quieter and less leaky future
21. I'm not done enjoying this car for the year, so I install a $100 T5 instead of a bulletproof conversion. SPOILER ALERT: It only lasts two months.
22. Minor repairs/updates that make the car livable (lighting, stereo, speedometer re-zero, and a clutch master cylinder that actually does it's job!)
23. Wheels and addressing rust again since I got time!
2021
24. Custom center caps
25. 1.9 roller rockers and LS6 springs
26. CAI V2.0
27. TKX is delayed so it's time to address the little annoyances.
-OE pan is junk. Dorman pan gets hot rodded
28. TKX is still delayed, so I install just one poly engine mount and beef up my flimsy turbo drain plumbing
29. TKX does NOT ship the following Monday. Flywheel bolts upgraded to ARP M10 x 1.0
30. When you're on a Chinese garbage budget, you better be ready to work harder. (Oil drain fitting hot rodding)
31. Finally repairing the oil sender pig tail, replacing the other engine mount, and test fitting the TKX.
32. Finally addressing rear brake lines while I wait for more transmission parts.
33. Modifying an ICM for a WOT box
34. Dash gets re-instrumented so that diagnostics become possible.
35. N2MB WOT box
36. Porked crank key. PSA: Be careful installing your balancer!
37. Car runs great after plug change, but the rear main seal needs to be changed again.
38. BURNOUT! Also, I kinda bought a cam.
39. Turbo drain finale (better be) and full exhaust commenced
2022
40. Downpipe V3 and BMR strut tower brace
41. Panhard bar and relocation for bro truck exhaust
42. Muffler, driveshaft, torque arm, and giving up smoking.
43. First trip to the GS Nationals (feat. time slip)
44. The very custom AC project is born
45. New dyno results (up 50 hp!)
46. Exhaust hanger repair before Michigan/S.S. Badger/Wisconsin trip
47. Sizing a better turbo
48. Painting but still not installing the IS3 heads and Monster clutch unboxing
49. Firewall brace
50. New ECM
2023
51. Out of storage and SC engine buy failure #3
52. Modified double roller and spitballing crankcase evac ideas
53. Completing the rear suspension. UMI rear control arms.
54. Cracked headers and L32 swap begins
55. My newest L32 was trash. I'm upgrading the L36 instead
56. Side project: The ultimate-ish intake manifold takes shape


Now back to 2018!
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Now that this car is running and driving, I figured I would start a thread dedicated to all the questions I’m about to pummel this group with. This is the first time I've really built anything to move quicker than stock, so I'm hoping to learn a lot from you guys before I make unnecessary mistakes. I also have a thread in the Turbobuick.com 3800 section, but I'm not getting as much input there due to a lack of audience. Here goes nothing...

The car I have is a 2002 Camaro with only ONE factory option (rear window defogger). The story supposedly goes that my buddy's dad was looking forever for a new Camaro because he never buys anything for a penny more than the best deal. He almost ran out of time as this was the final model year for the F-body, and '03s were already on the market. The dealer from which he found this car bought it for the sole purpose of being able to advertise "Brand new Camaros for under $10k", so this was the one he took home.

Fast forward to 2018. The car was structurally a wreck from living in the rust belt, but has a great interior, okay black paint, a third pedal, a 3800 (which is a plus in my book), and a lot of sentimental value since I remember riding in it when it was brand new. My buddy’s dad handed me the keys in hopes that I would enjoy it and make it a race car. To be honest, I don’t care for F-bodies, but I couldn't resist this one for the reasons above despite knowing that the floors were in desperate need of existing again.

I already had my dream car which is a 1986 Buick Regal Grand National. As much as I love that car, I like it the way it is in fairly stock form and modifying Buicks has gotten terribly expensive anyway. I figured a black 3800 Camaro could easily fulfill my childhood dreams of racing a badass turbo Buick V6 car while being on a budget, so here I am.

The car is now equipped with:
-6765 ebay turbo
-Precision PW40 wastegate
-Custom turbo exhaust utilizing a stock Camaro and FWD manifolds
-Air to air ebay intercooler
-AEM 50-1200 fuel pump
-Siemens Deka 80# fuel injectors
-Open 3” downpipe
-Custom 3” charge pipes
-Intense mail order tune
-Very ugly but functional upright radiator conversion (the core support was all just rust anyway) :dunno:
-Custom space saving AC delete without bypass pulley
-Midwest Chassis bumper support modified to mount my intercooler
-Spec Stage 1 clutch kit

The car is far from refined and has a lot of little issues to sort out, but I will leave the first post as sort of an introduction to that. I hope you enjoy hearing about it. It’s been fun to build!

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v6buicks

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I was perusing Facebook and saw a question on 3800 Performance. A guy wanted to know who it was that machined Rollmasters for the crank chamfer. My internal response was "there's a guy for that?" I commented in hopes of getting the answer. Sure enough, Jason Farnsworth is the guy. My set is boxed up and ready to ship. I wasn't expecting to spend a penny on the Camaro until the GN was done, but I figured it was worth doing that while the name was fresh in my head. One less thing to worry about when I finally do this cam swap.

I'm still a bit conflicted about the clutch situation. Should I just have the clutch mirror balanced to the L36 shit and be done? This is what I'm leaning towards because my engine is fine. I only worry because there aren't many people who have pushed and L36 as high as I would like to. The engine is coming out anyway, so this would be a prime opportunity to switch over to an L67 bottom end. I just don't have much trust in used engines anymore nor am I a very firm believer in the overall strength of an L67 being that much higher. I could go full tard and have a neutrally balanced short block built with fancy rods and pistons, but that seems like way too much coin for a guy who never really planned on blowing up or building the TKX. If any of you have a known good L67 hanging out that you're willing to part with, we should talk.
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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The flywheel is balanced to the engine the clutch assembly should be neutral balanced I've never come across an asymmetrically balanced pressure plate even on Dual Mass fly wheels.

The difference between the na and supercharged flywheel balance specs is 2 oz inches on early supercharged and na engines the later supercharged seem to be only one ounce inch off. I have rebalanced to the larger offset of the supercharged engine for my mezeers but a factory one I've never bothered with.
Naturally aspirated is 20 oz while early supercharged went as high as 22 but somewhere around $2,000 and later it only measured out at 21 for supercharged. L32 and l26 balance the same as their forefathers
 

v6buicks

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The flywheel is balanced to the engine the clutch assembly should be neutral balanced I've never come across an asymmetrically balanced pressure plate even on Dual Mass fly wheels.

The difference between the na and supercharged flywheel balance specs is 2 oz inches on early supercharged and na engines the later supercharged seem to be only one ounce inch off. I have rebalanced to the larger offset of the supercharged engine for my mezeers but a factory one I've never bothered with.
Naturally aspirated is 20 oz while early supercharged went as high as 22 but somewhere around $2,000 and later it only measured out at 21 for supercharged. L32 and l26 balance the same as their forefathers
Right. The monster clutch I have includes an aluminum flywheel which is also neutrally balanced, so something has to change.

I totally forgot that the difference between NA and SC balance was marginal though. Good call. I'll probably just have this matched to the OG flywheel for now, and if I want to switch to an L67 later, it's going to be good enough.

I still know very little about the process though. I actually have an L67 flex plate in the basement. Could I just hand it to the shop instead of a flywheel? I don't see why not. It might be nice to get this ball rolling sooner so that I have all the parts ready to go when I'm ready to start tearing down. The only flywheel I have is in the car.
 

sktchy

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Psht so far my l36 flywheel is fine on my L67 with just the L67 balancer. It's probably not right but I haven't noticed any sort of vibration at all. May be different with a balance shaft delete idk.

As far as looking for a used bottom end I say run your l36 til it's done and take your time finding somethin else or your gonna end up paying 7 or 800 bucks for a good L67. As far as me killin a bunch of l36 bottom ends I don't think it was their fault moreso than that damn bypass spring causing a pressure drop. Including the one I hose clamped a piston into on the floor and washed out with a garden hose, probably gonna put that one back together.
 
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v6buicks

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Thanks! It was a great trip.... maybe a little too good.

Like I mentioned in the GN thread, I went with the intention of forgetting all my troubles and it absolutely worked. I relaxed until my brain turned into mush. I didn't even go to the garage for a week after I got home, and when I finally forced myself to put on the coveralls I couldn't remember what I was supposed to be working on. :LOL:

I missed bantering about car stuff with the homies, but I didn't really miss the internet or the miserable fucks. I'm gonna try to stay in the build threads and 3800 tech. It's my happy place away from the swim-up bar.
 

bs009

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Regarding the L67 vs L36 bottom end. For sure the pistons are going to be more resistant to knock chips on the L67 and the rods are so much beefier.
I know some people have pushed the L36 rods pretty far but I've heard a lot of people have broken them due to too much power. Stock cam turbo cars do make gobs of torque though and that's what would break a rod so that could be the difference between the ones that lasted and the ones that didn't.

I would just send it on the flywheel with L36 balancing either way. Pretty sure the vibration I was talking about with mine is probably due to my engine having low compression on a hole.
 

v6buicks

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Regarding the L67 vs L36 bottom end. For sure the pistons are going to be more resistant to knock chips on the L67 and the rods are so much beefier.
I know some people have pushed the L36 rods pretty far but I've heard a lot of people have broken them due to too much power. Stock cam turbo cars do make gobs of torque though and that's what would break a rod so that could be the difference between the ones that lasted and the ones that didn't.

I would just send it on the flywheel with L36 balancing either way. Pretty sure the vibration I was talking about with mine is probably due to my engine having low compression on a hole.
I didn't realize that the L67 pistons were that much better.

I also continually fail to remember sometimes that I have a stick which also won't be particularly nice to rods being pushed to their limits. Maybe I'll keep looking for engines.
 
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Turbocharged400sbc

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The rod is only 0.1 in shorter on the sc.

The ring placement was primarily due to the Piston dish requirements for the compression ratio change. It also does increase durability.

Ideally you would use a flat top and machine the dish to mirror the chamber so that you maximize the quench squeeze area and maximize violent turbulence at TDC
 

sktchy

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What I understand is that having more area above the ringland gives it more strength to resist a ring that is trying to chip off an area of the piston. It seems like it would also keep the piston ring a little further away from the heat too.

I'm definitely not the expert though, this is Turbocharged400sbc Turbocharged400sbc territory haha
It may be thicker but I feel like having a dish in it is going to negate the strength factor when you compare it to a flat top. James would know but that's just my miseducated guess
 

GTPpower

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L67 pistons are definitely better at resisting ringland chips since that area is thicker.

Also, it was mentioned above about zzp's 4340 rods. I don't think they are any stronger than l67 or l32 rods, because they are too light. Imo, they would be great for higher reving, but if you're after strength, I think there are better choices.
 
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v6buicks

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I really don't want to buy a new engine, but I think it's the correct thing to do in this situation. Quick googling and marketplacing yields results that I'm not used to seeing. I miss $200 L67s with under 120k on them. I also really don't need another M90 that I can't sell.
 

sktchy

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Honestly at this point if I have another one let go I'm just taking a bare block into the machine shop to be align honed and have new cam bearings stuck in it. Probably just build it back with stock L67 stuff but rollin the dice on a few hundred bucks and probably a good 20 hours of my time by the time I get another swapped in gets old.
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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I would use flat tops machined with a mirror pocket to the chamber and I would use the X beam rods the information I've come across regarding oil windage and resistance cutting through the oil mist probably be worth it.

I would be ecstatic to just take one of my current supercharged shorties reuse the pistons and rings and just put in the aftermarket X beam rods after doing some knife edging on the crank counterweights before some balancing work...
Aftermarket pistons on these things are awfully heavy
 

v6buicks

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As seen in my other thread, the first engine replacement adventure didn't go as well as I hoped.
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I didn't buy this one. I should have offered him $100, but I passed instead. I really just want a good short factory short block. I'm going to keep looking, but future loose engine deals would need to be under less sketchy circumstances for me to pursue. I'm getting a lot of duds even from good sellers. A buddy of mine is probably going to help me grab one from the yard this summer if I don't have one by then.

In other news, the car fired up without a jump and drove home without drama. Idk if the whole thing about E85 longevity is becoming a thing of the past or if I'm worried about an old wives tale, but this is the second year in a row for having a full tank of E just chillin.
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The bad news is that I can't justify storing cars here anymore. ?
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Last year it was just little nibbles from the GN plug wires, but this corrosion just plain sucks.

Overall, I'm just happy it still runs and drives like the day I dropped it off. ?
 

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