🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

General Information

Hello! Welcome to the shit show! I am updating this post in 2021 to explain what new readers are about to witness. If I knew that this thread and build were going to explode into what it is today, I would have started it out a lot different.

This car was (and still is) a basket case. The whole inspiration for starting this project was to start learning how to modify engines in a car that I didn't like. That way, if and when I screwed up, I wouldn't be ruining a nice car. It spiraled out of control from the first moment that I felt boost. I loved what I had created, but it took a ton of work to get to where I was. As soon as I got the car running nicely I was always saying "I'm going to fix______, and THEN I'll just enjoy driving it." You know the drill. Drive, break, fix, repeat! Before I knew it, I enjoyed driving and working on this turd more than the nice car I was trying to preserve!

The point is that the focus of this thread shifts A LOT. To complicate matters, I never have just one ongoing project open at a time. I listed some thread contents with links below. I will update this as new milestones or big updates happen. Just know that even if you click on the shortcut, you may have to scroll past other project posts to reveal the outcome. There are also some mini-projects and very helpful advice from other members in between, so read the whole dang thing if you want!

2018-2019
1. A late introduction
2. Discovering how a PCV works (and plugging it)
3. Custom grill for intercooler
4. Fuel pump trap door
5. Learning that I'll never learn anything from my goofy wide band gauge
6. Deleting AC completely, but retaining heat
2020
7. Low profile heater hose fittings
8. Deleting an air bag without setting a light on the dash
9. Starting a second round of floor repairs
10. ABS delete and line lock installation
- A separate thread for the electrons
11. Installing catch cans with nice brackets (Way overkill)
12. Figuring out the "blow by" problem once and for all (F-body intake plug)
13. Second clutch job, first rear cover job, and preliminary transmission swap research
14. Floors are "done", and Interior is installed.
15. I don't know how to tune, but this wide band might help.
16. Poly trans mount. Yeah, it actually deserves a link.
17. I waved the tuning white flag. Dyno Brian sets me straight!
18. T5 Pro5.0 shifter
19. New shifter was too much fun. OG T5 explodes, and my transmission conversion ideas start to get serious.
-TKX conversion
-TKX swap official write-up
20. Reconfiguring my exhaust for a quieter and less leaky future
21. I'm not done enjoying this car for the year, so I install a $100 T5 instead of a bulletproof conversion. SPOILER ALERT: It only lasts two months.
22. Minor repairs/updates that make the car livable (lighting, stereo, speedometer re-zero, and a clutch master cylinder that actually does it's job!)
23. Wheels and addressing rust again since I got time!
2021
24. Custom center caps
25. 1.9 roller rockers and LS6 springs
26. CAI V2.0
27. TKX is delayed so it's time to address the little annoyances.
-OE pan is junk. Dorman pan gets hot rodded
28. TKX is still delayed, so I install just one poly engine mount and beef up my flimsy turbo drain plumbing
29. TKX does NOT ship the following Monday. Flywheel bolts upgraded to ARP M10 x 1.0
30. When you're on a Chinese garbage budget, you better be ready to work harder. (Oil drain fitting hot rodding)
31. Finally repairing the oil sender pig tail, replacing the other engine mount, and test fitting the TKX.
32. Finally addressing rear brake lines while I wait for more transmission parts.
33. Modifying an ICM for a WOT box
34. Dash gets re-instrumented so that diagnostics become possible.
35. N2MB WOT box
36. Porked crank key. PSA: Be careful installing your balancer!
37. Car runs great after plug change, but the rear main seal needs to be changed again.
38. BURNOUT! Also, I kinda bought a cam.
39. Turbo drain finale (better be) and full exhaust commenced
2022
40. Downpipe V3 and BMR strut tower brace
41. Panhard bar and relocation for bro truck exhaust
42. Muffler, driveshaft, torque arm, and giving up smoking.
43. First trip to the GS Nationals (feat. time slip)
44. The very custom AC project is born
45. New dyno results (up 50 hp!)
46. Exhaust hanger repair before Michigan/S.S. Badger/Wisconsin trip
47. Sizing a better turbo
48. Painting but still not installing the IS3 heads and Monster clutch unboxing
49. Firewall brace
50. New ECM
2023
51. Out of storage and SC engine buy failure #3
52. Modified double roller and spitballing crankcase evac ideas
53. Completing the rear suspension. UMI rear control arms.
54. Cracked headers and L32 swap begins
55. My newest L32 was trash. I'm upgrading the L36 instead
56. Side project: The ultimate-ish intake manifold takes shape


Now back to 2018!
1688935182526.png


Now that this car is running and driving, I figured I would start a thread dedicated to all the questions I’m about to pummel this group with. This is the first time I've really built anything to move quicker than stock, so I'm hoping to learn a lot from you guys before I make unnecessary mistakes. I also have a thread in the Turbobuick.com 3800 section, but I'm not getting as much input there due to a lack of audience. Here goes nothing...

The car I have is a 2002 Camaro with only ONE factory option (rear window defogger). The story supposedly goes that my buddy's dad was looking forever for a new Camaro because he never buys anything for a penny more than the best deal. He almost ran out of time as this was the final model year for the F-body, and '03s were already on the market. The dealer from which he found this car bought it for the sole purpose of being able to advertise "Brand new Camaros for under $10k", so this was the one he took home.

Fast forward to 2018. The car was structurally a wreck from living in the rust belt, but has a great interior, okay black paint, a third pedal, a 3800 (which is a plus in my book), and a lot of sentimental value since I remember riding in it when it was brand new. My buddy’s dad handed me the keys in hopes that I would enjoy it and make it a race car. To be honest, I don’t care for F-bodies, but I couldn't resist this one for the reasons above despite knowing that the floors were in desperate need of existing again.

I already had my dream car which is a 1986 Buick Regal Grand National. As much as I love that car, I like it the way it is in fairly stock form and modifying Buicks has gotten terribly expensive anyway. I figured a black 3800 Camaro could easily fulfill my childhood dreams of racing a badass turbo Buick V6 car while being on a budget, so here I am.

The car is now equipped with:
-6765 ebay turbo
-Precision PW40 wastegate
-Custom turbo exhaust utilizing a stock Camaro and FWD manifolds
-Air to air ebay intercooler
-AEM 50-1200 fuel pump
-Siemens Deka 80# fuel injectors
-Open 3” downpipe
-Custom 3” charge pipes
-Intense mail order tune
-Very ugly but functional upright radiator conversion (the core support was all just rust anyway) :dunno:
-Custom space saving AC delete without bypass pulley
-Midwest Chassis bumper support modified to mount my intercooler
-Spec Stage 1 clutch kit

The car is far from refined and has a lot of little issues to sort out, but I will leave the first post as sort of an introduction to that. I hope you enjoy hearing about it. It’s been fun to build!

Cgge0Pb.jpg


uapwiw2.jpg


08tL6Rj.jpg


7zXNhuZ.jpg


PVLQyzg.jpg

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
This is the icm bracket you want yeah? Nevermind the ls with the mismatched plug wire in the background

View attachment 130926
Yep. Pm me when you figure out how much you want for it. I was considering relocating to the FWD position since a have a great excuse and that spot is wide open. I just don't think I'll have fun extending and rerouting that part of the harness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,502
11,694
I've got a couple front wheel drive ones sittin around as well as I've thought about goin that route myself to clean up the wiring and put my pretty but worthless zzp coils on blast so if you want one I can make that happen too. Message me your address again and I'll send it your way. My pile of busted motors is good for somethin once in a while ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: v6buicks

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
I figured it out.
1662315023636.png

Two exhaust valve stem seals popped off on the same bank. The rest were good. Either these shitty Fel-Pro stem seals just can't hang and happened to show it in a convenient way or my valve guides are going bad. Neither are exactly unbelievable. The seals did not click in nice like a GM part would, and this head came from a known bad engine (weak rings). Since it's only two seals, I'm thinking that I'm just going to remove those springs, push the seals back on and see how long they last. I'm guessing not long, but I'm not ready to replace the heads yet. I want to do some driving while the air is cool!
 

GTPpower

TCG Elite Member
Jun 5, 2012
6,295
9,611
Nebraska
That's somewhat common with aftermarket seals. I've never had it happen, but seen it on other cars. Prj sold a set of seals that fit a little tighter and stayed on much better. Wish you could still get them.

You could clean them up real good and try a small dab of rtv under them. Or maybe anerobic sealant would be a bit better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy and v6buicks

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
I stuck those two seals back on with anaerobic sealer and pried on the others with a screwdriver. None of the others were a problem yet, but some were starting to move their way up the stem. I'm glad I'll just be installing all new heads soon.

I have yet to sell the ST5 cam. I admittedly don't have it listed for a good deal, but nobody is making offers either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

Turbocharged400sbc

3800 & 4T80E > ALL
TCG Premium
Jun 16, 2007
32,541
15,849
hangover park IL
Yeah those seals you need to install and then kind of use a pocket screwdriver to push the band all the way down in its Groove and you have to help kind of close it up to compress the valve seal material.
Heavy valve guide Lube also means that it doesn't quite burp and so there's a pocket of compressed air in there when the engine heats up it expands and lifts the seal off of the guide with the heavy assembly Lube.
 

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
Funny how things work. I made that last post, and a guy messaged me not only wanting my ST5 but also had an ST2 to trade me! It's a done deal. It's not really what Mr_Robotto suggested, but it should still be a much better fit in my car than the ST5.

Trading with strangers online is weird. We agreed to treat them as two separate transactions. I sent him $300, and he sent me $300. We'll both ship cams on Tuesday. Probably sounds Polish but we both wanted buyer protection since we didn't know each other.
 

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,502
11,694
That seems weird but makes total sense. I generally try and keep trading stuff to the 3800 guys I "know" or have at least had plenty of conversation with so I guess I've never thought about it like that. I do get kinda nervous when I go to get somethin and the guy wants cash and won't take PayPal, but I guess I kind of understand that too. Fortunately I've had good luck so far other than a couple shit bottom ends I picked up for beans anyway
 

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
Yeah, hopefully! There's another work car show on the 13th I'd like to enter the Camaro in. A lot of coworkers haven't checked it out since it had a T5 and no interior. It would be nice to show off one more time and do some cool weather cruising before the knife.

Sometimes I forget that the fall is the part of car season especially when you don't have AC.
 

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
I put everything back together with new plugs. It still smokes on start up and take off. ? It's too bad because it runs great.

I also don't know if I should trust this thing, but I bought a turbo guard just to try it out. Maybe it'll spool even quicker.
PXL_20220910_173734344.jpg

Everything I do lately seems to be a bust. It's piss poor timing too considering my overall lack of interest. ? I really wanted to hold off on pulling the engine, but I'm kinda worried about making the car worse with it's worn out suspension.

I'll figure something out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
I think I finally have a plan/compromise set for the winter.

I'm going to prolong the radiator and core support. As much as I want that done, there's nothing currently wrong with it. The cap stopped leaking, I don't have overheating issues, I don't ever expect to have any, and I can do this at any time with the engine still in place. Skip.

I'm also going to forget about the rear end for a while. My ratio is less than ideal and it is certainly a weak point. However, it's still kicking. I also don't think it will be a problem on the dyno. Skip.

I DO want to drop the K-member and install all the parts I've had sitting around. I can't live with the smoking issues and having all these parts hanging out is starting to annoy my wife. I'll rebush the control arms and buy coilovers in hopes of controlling this thing a little better. Sway bars and adjustable control arms will be skipped. While I have everything out, I'll remedy the rusty portions behind the core support and paint the engine bay. I'll also go through the harness, solder in the EV1 injector clips, delete the EGR wires, incorporate the MAF scaler so that it's not so ugly, finish the WOT box wiring, and possibly elongate ICM and AC wires.

That's a lot of work for a winter in a two car garage, but I believe it's doable. Now that I have a plan, I'm very motivated. In fact, I got back to a project I've been neglecting for a while. Notice it is not on the list for completion this winter either.
PXL_20220911_202009308.jpg

All the rough in's for fiberglass are done! I just need to support this new wall a little more because it's floppy as it stands.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GTPpower

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,502
11,694
I think we're on the same page there for sure. I also have the 3.23s and have been considering the 3.42s from the my parts car. Either way I'm going to have to throw a seal in the front of either rear end but the 3.23 in my car likes to tick and grab in reverse like it may or may not be sticking and trying to lock the limited slip and I figure the other one would be the lesser of two evils and gain me just enough that burnouts would be easier and way more fun. Plus that rear end has wayyy less hits on it and I don't trust this one anymore than I do my oil pressure.
 

Mr_Roboto

Doing the jobs nobody wants to
TCG Premium
Feb 4, 2012
25,669
30,550
Nashotah, Wisconsin (AKA not Illinois)
A few thoughts on this:
-Pop your axle shafts, put a grease pencil line straight down them. That way you're able to check them if they're suspect. Knew a guy who did that with his 383 S10.
-3.42 gears will probably have less contact area than 3.23s. The higher numerical tends to have less contact patch, but 3.23 is the carrier break so that may go out the window honestly.
 

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
I'm so glad to finally be getting this sorted and out of my head. I was supposed to give up after selling my DHP, but I couldn't let it go when the topic came back up on 3800pro. On a total whim I finally just said "screw it" and bought two HP credits. My 3100 Buick Century ECM is in the Camaro and working great!
PXL_20220922_223013654.jpg

I never noticed that my original says Delphi and the new one says Delco.
PXL_20220923_002632008.jpg

The conversion wasn't without a bit of heartbreak though. I was hoping to fire up HP and get cracking right away. Instead...
1663880039068.png

I tried reinstalling with the old installer tool. No dice. It was insisting that I got the newer version. I broke down and did it. Then I opened the software and it was already bullshit. Hardly anything could be edited like before. Then I found this new "feature".
1663882527590.png

I was about to lose my mind until I did some digging on the HPT website. The class is free and the quizzes are obvious. However, I still don't like the way things are going. Hot rodding is going to get really tough and/or expensive soon.

Oh well. I'm going to enjoy it while I can. After a very spirited test drive in this newly cooled air, I saw 12.3:1 AFRs at WOT and some serious ass hauling. I'm planning to replace the knock sensors and do anything else I can to ensure that Dyno Brian can turn those back on when I come back for cam tuning. I obviously haven't had an issue with knock (that I know of) since the last tune, but it would still be nice to have the sensors working for good measure. That's going to be especially true when I'm pushing this thing to 600hp. ?
 

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,262
15,458
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
Your box was shit this whole time?
I have yet to prove this.

Turbocharged400sbc Turbocharged400sbc made a comment a long time ago regarding hardware numbers when I mentioned my insane false knock issues. The NA only 3800 models like F-bodies, LeSabres, Luminas, vans, ect. were sometimes given an ECM that was of a slightly lower quality. The knock circuit is supposedly poorly shielded and susceptible to issues when you add a turbo. My Camaro was one of the unlucky recipients of this hardware.

7440 is a hardware number that's known to be solid with better shielding. It's essentially universal among all the V6 cars including L67s. I picked one up for $30, dicked around on DHP in an attempt to clone the Camaro's ECM, and failed. Yesterday, I just said to hell with it, bought the HP credits, and did a write entire. It was expensive, but much easier. More importantly, it's done.

RIght now the car is no different than it was because the tune is the same. My comment about AFR was just me proving that the tune and OS swapped as it was supposed to. It's possible that my knock sensors or wiring have been garbage all along. I just don't see why busted sensors would become MORE sensitive.
 

Turbocharged400sbc

3800 & 4T80E > ALL
TCG Premium
Jun 16, 2007
32,541
15,849
hangover park IL
The knock sensors are piezoelectric crystals that are basically tuned for certain frequencies that are found when the engine experiences detonation they verify this via Dyno testing cuz a lot of it's dependent on piston and combustion chamber design etc.

Na cars specify a higher torque number for tightening the water jacket drain plugs aka the knock sensors then the supercharged cars which specify a lower torque which makes them less sensitive since they have a piston with a dish reducing compression ratio.

All I know is that more than a few times I've come across Oddball Hardware numbers and vehicles with really weird f****** issues and it makes sense if you look at the bell curve of life that there's going to be some lower quality s*** that gets tossed in your parts bin cars.

You can't let good-ish Parts go to waste.

Near as I can tell they have tons of Oddball numbers for probably very specific calibrations to make these computers work with certain vehicles...

Anyone else remember how every now and then there'd be someone with just an entire knock lobster no matter what they f****** did?

Dave aka 02BlueGT 02BlueGT did.

Changed the Oddball computer to a 7440 and all problems disappeared.

Nothing changed even with an entirely different engine until we replaced the PCM

Now it's nearly one of the first things I check on a person's computer
 

Thread Info