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BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro


sktchy3.8

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Did u look and see if u got misfire data either way? I'd like to be able to test some of this on mine but I still need to get the motor back in it first 🙄
 
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v6buicks

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Did u look and see if u got misfire data either way? I'd like to be able to test some of this on mine but I still need to get the motor back in it first 🙄
No misfires 😑 I wish I could see it work.
 

sktchy3.8

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Does your timing jump around a bunch at idle? Pull back to like 5 or 6⁰?

I know you said you visually inspected the cam sensor but if it gets worse with a new crank sensor it makes me wonder if that isn't just amplifying another problem and the old sensor gave it some wiggle room?

Also if the cam sensor works with the crank sensor to calculate misfires then does it possibly have an impact on the timing logic? I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than I am chimes in here but I feel like it'd be worth a shot at changing both. Or a loose connector or pin somewhere maybe. Also can a guy maybe ohm either of those sensors out or read a voltage off of it to see whether it's good or not before just tossing another part at it?
 
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v6buicks

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Does your timing jump around a bunch at idle? Pull back to like 5 or 6⁰?

I know you said you visually inspected the cam sensor but if it gets worse with a new crank sensor it makes me wonder if that isn't just amplifying another problem and the old sensor gave it some wiggle room?

Also if the cam sensor works with the crank sensor to calculate misfires then does it possibly have an impact on the timing logic? I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable than I am chimes in here but I feel like it'd be worth a shot at changing both. Or a loose connector or pin somewhere maybe. Also can a guy maybe ohm either of those sensors out or read a voltage off of it to see whether it's good or not before just tossing another part at it?
There's no way to ohm them as a "good/bad" test. The best thing to do would be to put a scope on them and find out what they see. I actually have a buddy coming on Sunday who wants to do just that. Until then, I'm probably going to check the sensor and PCM pinouts, ohm the wires for those sensors, shake them around a bit, and hope I find a break.

I bought a cam sensor, but Napa didn't have it in stock. I should be able to get it today. I'm also hoping that I can find those connector bodies laying around so that I can make pig tails.
 

sktchy3.8

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I hope you get it figured out it sounds like your lookin in all the right places to me. Definitely gives me a little different perspective on mine tho so all your troubles aren't lost at least :bowrofl:
 
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v6buicks

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Uh oh...
1634817083065.png


The can of worms is now open after realizing how different this harness is compared to the FWD stuff. Before you raise your pitchforks, I think the immediate plan is still to just snip the crank and cam pig tails off and solder in new ones. Before that, I also hope to ohm those circuits out while wiggling wires to see if I can confirm faults. However, just pulling the existing harness this far out made me realize that this entire thing is in pretty rough shape. The split loom pretty much disintegrates if you move it, and the wires under it are not doing much better.

Now it's time for long term ideas because this harness has about returned to ashes. If I can band-aid this one, I'm considering the idea of buying an entire used harness off ebay. There's one that looks pretty nice for $250. I'll strip it down, solder the correct injector clips on it to eliminate adapters, seamlessly add the WOT box wiring, eliminate a bunch of wires that I'm not using (EVAP, AC, EGR, ABS, and DS O2), and possibly lengthen/relocate the ICM pigtail so that the coils can sit somewhere cooler. I never thought I'd consider this sort of job without converting to Holly EFI, but it's neither in the budget nor even a long-term necessity. Am I crazy?
 

sktchy3.8

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Your not crazy and I'm planning on going through my harness as well before I'm back together as my plastic is disintegrated as well. If your relocating coils it looked to me the fwd bracket would work real nice to move them up front and I don't think there's really anything in the way other than short wires to stop you from doing so
 
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v6buicks

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Your not crazy and I'm planning on going through my harness as well before I'm back together as my plastic is disintegrated as well. If your relocating coils it looked to me the fwd bracket would work real nice to move them up front and I don't think there's really anything in the way other than short wires to stop you from doing so
I think the FWD brackets would be in the way of the PS reservoir and catch can hose. The only place that really works and gets cooler temps is where the battery tray used to sit. The trouble then is having plug wires that are 5ft or longer. lol I think I'm gonna scratch the ICM relocation. I'm not going to buy another harness either. Buying another 20 year old bundle and modifying it isn't going to make it new again. If I get this one working with the band aids, I'll pull it out and make it nice over the winter.
 

bs009

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Yeah I would just get things working for now while you still have a few weeks to enjoy the car before winter hits.
If you're going to convert to Holley EFI you'll be redoing everything again later with the crank/ICM harness deal
 
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v6buicks

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This was the power wire for both the cam and crank sensors. I know it looks tan or yellow, but 20 years will do that to a white wire. The point is that this part of the harness was not protected by split look and rests against the block. That could certainly cause problems.
1634902386492.png


1634902575204.png


Catching this obvious damage was motivating enough for me to clip, solder new, shrink, re-loom, and reinstall that section of harness right then and there. I only managed one picture of that fun though. It took two tries to get the split loom in the right spots, but it all fits just as well if not better than the factory harness. Here's it is ready to go back in.
1634903113137.png


The car still runs like ass though. :cry:

I have to be in the right vicinity because it doesn't exactly run the same. Each time I fuck with the crank/cam sensors the engine starts and runs a little differently. My motivation ran dry after this fail, but tonight I think I'm going to try making a couple rigs. There's no place to stick my hands in and shake the wires, but I'm hoping to loop some zip ties around the ICM connector wires and play the car like a puppet. If it freaks the hell out, I'll know that that connector is also trash. If it doesn't, then I'll probably get sad and quit for the weekend. replacing that connector will be a job and a half though. That's pretty much a harness out and completely un-loomed job. It's been on and off so many times at this point that the little bolt doesn't really like to go into the ICM anymore. For the record, I can get it tight. It might just be an indicator that the pins are getting weak.
 

bs009

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what a debacle, hate to see this thing giving you so much trouble after all of the trans work you've done

You've checked out the plug wires already right to make sure they're not arcing already too right?
 
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v6buicks

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what a debacle, hate to see this thing giving you so much trouble after all of the trans work you've done

You've checked out the plug wires already right to make sure they're not arcing already too right?
It's a huge pain in my ass.

I've checked the wires, but I don't hear any snaps. One thing I might want to try is clamping the coil side terminals down a bit. They're new, but they've been removed and replace a lot and feel a bit weak at times.... Yeah, I'm definitely gonna look at that a little closer when I get home.
 

SleeperLS

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Have you run any continuity check in those wires from the pcm to the sensor? I found a couple bad wires that way and just bridged them.
 
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v6buicks

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Have you run any continuity check in those wires from the pcm to the sensor? I found a couple bad wires that way and just bridged them.
They actually run directly from the sensor to the ICM. I checked there and didn't have any high resistance.
 
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v6buicks

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I'm still thinking take a weed sprayer full of water under that hood and start spraying plug wires down and see what happens
Before I pull anything else apart, I'm trying this again.
 

sktchy3.8

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It wasn't hard too find some of my issues that way. Once I got close to a problem it'd let me know and then when I had a good general idea I killed all the lights and focused on that spot and sure as hell tiny sparks. Even with the lights out they were kinda hard to see but it really helped me alot and unless your hosing down the pcm I don't think your gonna hurt anything doin it
 
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v6buicks

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I do not see my coils or wires arcing even with the lights off and water all over them. I cannot make the car misfire or anything like that when I shake the wires. I did completely fuck my front main seal though.
1634934257206.png


I don't know what I'm looking at.
1634934559325.png
 

sktchy3.8

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That looks a little advanced maybe? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but im pretty sure you want the line right in the bend. What's your wot timing? If it's misfiring there's probably kr happening as well? I hate to wonder if it's the pcm but I've seen where that's a possibility. I've got a spare I could send your way if it's somethin you wanna try
 
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v6buicks

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Sweet Jesus, I found the problem.
PXL_20211031_204012293.jpg


Sooooo yeah. The crank and cam signals WERE fucked up, but not because of electrical faults. I wonder where the the other piece is and how it broke.

It sucks that I have to take the timing cover off again, but I'm happy that I finally know why the balancer installed so sloppily and why the car ran like ass.
 

bs009

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Looks like the keyway got shaved down?

I had that happen once in my car. Didn't align the balancer perfectly and ran the bolt down and destroyed the keyway. Had to go find a new one and dig out the old one. Huge PITA
Will never do that again now
 
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v6buicks

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Looks like the keyway got shaved down?

I had that happen once in my car. Didn't align the balancer perfectly and ran the bolt down and destroyed the keyway. Had to go find a new one and dig out the old one. Huge PITA
Will never do that again now
I about guarantee that's what I did to mine too. I'm not looking forward to the extraction! I do have a good key on my parts block. Hopefully I can remove it without destruction.
 

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