Build LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

General Information

Hello! Welcome to the shit show! I am updating this post in 2021 to explain what new readers are about to witness. If I knew that this thread and build were going to explode into what it is today, I would have started it out a lot different.

This car was (and still is) a basket case. The whole inspiration for starting this project was to start learning how to modify engines in a car that I didn't like. That way, if and when I screwed up, I wouldn't be ruining a nice car. It spiraled out of control from the first moment that I felt boost. I loved what I had created, but it took a ton of work to get to where I was. As soon as I got the car running nicely I was always saying "I'm going to fix______, and THEN I'll just enjoy driving it." You know the drill. Drive, break, fix, repeat! Before I knew it, I enjoyed driving and working on this turd more than the nice car I was trying to preserve!

The point is that the focus of this thread shifts A LOT. To complicate matters, I never have just one ongoing project open at a time. I listed some thread contents with links below. I will update this as new milestones or big updates happen. Just know that even if you click on the shortcut, you may have to scroll past other project posts to reveal the outcome. There are also some mini-projects and very helpful advice from other members in between, so read the whole dang thing if you want!

2018-2019
1. A late introduction
2. Discovering how a PCV works (and plugging it)
3. Custom grill for intercooler
4. Fuel pump trap door
5. Learning that I'll never learn anything from my goofy wide band gauge
6. Deleting AC completely, but retaining heat
2020
7. Low profile heater hose fittings
8. Deleting an air bag without setting a light on the dash
9. Starting a second round of floor repairs
10. ABS delete and line lock installation
- A separate thread for the electrons
11. Installing catch cans with nice brackets (Way overkill)
12. Figuring out the "blow by" problem once and for all (F-body intake plug)
13. Second clutch job, first rear cover job, and preliminary transmission swap research
14. Floors are "done", and Interior is installed.
15. I don't know how to tune, but this wide band might help.
16. Poly trans mount. Yeah, it actually deserves a link.
17. I waved the tuning white flag. Dyno Brian sets me straight!
18. T5 Pro5.0 shifter
19. New shifter was too much fun. OG T5 explodes, and my transmission conversion ideas start to get serious.
-TKX conversion
-TKX swap official write-up
20. Reconfiguring my exhaust for a quieter and less leaky future
21. I'm not done enjoying this car for the year, so I install a $100 T5 instead of a bulletproof conversion. SPOILER ALERT: It only lasts two months.
22. Minor repairs/updates that make the car livable (lighting, stereo, speedometer re-zero, and a clutch master cylinder that actually does it's job!)
23. Wheels and addressing rust again since I got time!
2021
24. Custom center caps
25. 1.9 roller rockers and LS6 springs
26. CAI V2.0
27. TKX is delayed so it's time to address the little annoyances.
-OE pan is junk. Dorman pan gets hot rodded
28. TKX is still delayed, so I install just one poly engine mount and beef up my flimsy turbo drain plumbing
29. TKX does NOT ship the following Monday. Flywheel bolts upgraded to ARP M10 x 1.0
30. When you're on a Chinese garbage budget, you better be ready to work harder. (Oil drain fitting hot rodding)
31. Finally repairing the oil sender pig tail, replacing the other engine mount, and test fitting the TKX.
32. Finally addressing rear brake lines while I wait for more transmission parts.
33. Modifying an ICM for a WOT box
34. Dash gets re-instrumented so that diagnostics become possible.
35. N2MB WOT box
36. Porked crank key. PSA: Be careful installing your balancer!
37. Car runs great after plug change, but the rear main seal needs to be changed again.
38. BURNOUT! Also, I kinda bought a cam.
39. Turbo drain finale (better be) and full exhaust commenced
2022
40. Downpipe V3 and BMR strut tower brace
41. Panhard bar and relocation for bro truck exhaust
42. Muffler, driveshaft, torque arm, and giving up smoking.
43. First trip to the GS Nationals (feat. time slip)
44. The very custom AC project is born
45. New dyno results (up 50 hp!)
46. Exhaust hanger repair before Michigan/S.S. Badger/Wisconsin trip
47. Sizing a better turbo
48. Painting but still not installing the IS3 heads and Monster clutch unboxing
49. Firewall brace
50. New ECM
2023
51. Out of storage and SC engine buy failure #3
52. Modified double roller and spitballing crankcase evac ideas
53. Completing the rear suspension. UMI rear control arms.
54. Cracked headers and L32 swap begins
55. My newest L32 was trash. I'm upgrading the L36 instead
56. Side project: The ultimate-ish intake manifold takes shape


Now back to 2018!
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Now that this car is running and driving, I figured I would start a thread dedicated to all the questions I’m about to pummel this group with. This is the first time I've really built anything to move quicker than stock, so I'm hoping to learn a lot from you guys before I make unnecessary mistakes. I also have a thread in the Turbobuick.com 3800 section, but I'm not getting as much input there due to a lack of audience. Here goes nothing...

The car I have is a 2002 Camaro with only ONE factory option (rear window defogger). The story supposedly goes that my buddy's dad was looking forever for a new Camaro because he never buys anything for a penny more than the best deal. He almost ran out of time as this was the final model year for the F-body, and '03s were already on the market. The dealer from which he found this car bought it for the sole purpose of being able to advertise "Brand new Camaros for under $10k", so this was the one he took home.

Fast forward to 2018. The car was structurally a wreck from living in the rust belt, but has a great interior, okay black paint, a third pedal, a 3800 (which is a plus in my book), and a lot of sentimental value since I remember riding in it when it was brand new. My buddy’s dad handed me the keys in hopes that I would enjoy it and make it a race car. To be honest, I don’t care for F-bodies, but I couldn't resist this one for the reasons above despite knowing that the floors were in desperate need of existing again.

I already had my dream car which is a 1986 Buick Regal Grand National. As much as I love that car, I like it the way it is in fairly stock form and modifying Buicks has gotten terribly expensive anyway. I figured a black 3800 Camaro could easily fulfill my childhood dreams of racing a badass turbo Buick V6 car while being on a budget, so here I am.

The car is now equipped with:
-6765 ebay turbo
-Precision PW40 wastegate
-Custom turbo exhaust utilizing a stock Camaro and FWD manifolds
-Air to air ebay intercooler
-AEM 50-1200 fuel pump
-Siemens Deka 80# fuel injectors
-Open 3” downpipe
-Custom 3” charge pipes
-Intense mail order tune
-Very ugly but functional upright radiator conversion (the core support was all just rust anyway) :dunno:
-Custom space saving AC delete without bypass pulley
-Midwest Chassis bumper support modified to mount my intercooler
-Spec Stage 1 clutch kit

The car is far from refined and has a lot of little issues to sort out, but I will leave the first post as sort of an introduction to that. I hope you enjoy hearing about it. It’s been fun to build!

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Ron Vogel

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You just gotta stop over examining everything. You setup is very basic but you're asking advice from all of the 3800 people that all did whatever they did and had ZERO problems blah blah blah. Simple, simple, simple. If the tuner is a good tuner he should be able to see spark knock happen because of the plugs, or because of timing, or whatever. If you NEED plugs you can just run to the parts store and get them. NBD. I really hope you have a positive result with the dyno. People take pieces of shit to tuners and ask them to make magic happen and you're miles ahead of that.
Lol, truf.
 

v6buicks

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Over examining is definitely the least fun part about being me. I really try not to, but it's part of my nature to want reasons for everything. It's extremely tiresome and makes socializing difficult at times. Anyway, I appreciate the words of encouragement. That shit helps.

I took the car out for some quick errands last night and those 104s seems to make a big difference. I didn't see KR the whole time I was out. (y) I'm feeling excited again. I will post late tomorrow.
 

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It went well, car made almost 400RWHP but fell just short due to fueling not being enough. ZERO KR.
 

v6buicks

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haha geez I wish it was that good, but it wasn't bad either. We stopped well before 400hp because of KR and valve float.

Brian didn't believe the KR for a minute, so he didn't hesitate to turn the knock sensors off. :oops: I'm a little scared about that, but at the same time it feels nice to be fat, dumb, and happy as opposed to never goosing the throttle because of false knock. lol

We also changed the plugs from AL 104s to NGK BR7EF and gapped them to .020" That helped quite a bit. We just couldn't get the power to stay smooth on the top end. The tune is good, but the valve springs are shot. ?

Perfect outcome? No. Am I satisfied? Oh hell yeah. I learned a lot today, the car feels amazing, and I have a short list of to-dos that will make a big difference. I'm in love with the car again.

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v6buicks

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Oh yeah, fun story. I almost wrecked the car, and it wasn't my fault. While driving it home on the interstate after returning the trailer, some dumb ass with one of these...
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...in the bed of their F-150, decided straps weren't necessary. Of course it flew out and crashed directly in front of me. I swerved into the path of a box truck and missed the trailer, but the truck behind me was stuck in their lane. They smoked that sucker and sent the trailer flying once again, but into the guard rail. Their chrome bumper was not looking too hot, so my bumperless POS would not have put up a good fight. :oops: Can you imagine how much that could have sucked? Geeeeez!
 

v6buicks

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Congrats! Now don’t be such a pessimist about the 3800 lol only age was a factor (worn valve springs).

How is she running now? I mean as far as drivability..
Thanks! Believe me. I never blamed the 3800. All the negativity has been aimed at myself. I would have been nervous and dreadful towards pushing the limits on anything I built with my own hands. If I were to start all over with a new power train, I would still choose a 3800 without a doubt. Some would argue that my numbers are weak by today's standards. Stock V6 cars are making 300 hp and doing all of this work to an equally worthless LS car would net much higher numbers, but that's not the point. I threw 10 psi and injectors at a completely stock V6 which resulted in an added 130 hp and nearly double the torque. Considering that the stock numbers are measured at the crank, this car is no joke!

Drive-ability, is much improved. I no longer have the awful vibrations coming through the poly trans mount. The power also comes in nice and smooth, but I'm trying not to get too overly excited about that. The knock sensors are turned off. The KR before tuning was making the car fall on its face. I trust that Brian knew what he was doing when he turned the the knock sensors off because the car feels and sounds very healthy. I just miss that insurance in case something goes wrong. Then again, I'm not going to be using anything other than E85, Brian is a good tuner, I have a wideband, and I'm only running 10 psi. I don't think I'll have to worry much!

Congrats man! A new set of springs should help a lot.

What's next?

What's next? I'm sick of the garage at the moment. I want to go on road trips, spend more time with my girlfriend, and actually drive the cars I've spent and slaved so hard over.

I wouldn't expect any major mechanical updates in any of my threads in the near future, but I have pretty big long-term goals for this one. The only things I know I want to do soon are a wheel upgrade when I roast these tires off and window tints. That hatch glass is like a magnifying glass for the sun without having AC. As for the big stuff, I'd like to do it all without taking the car down for another two years. lol How far I go will depend on funds.

What I want to do is buy a Spohn tubular k-member with all new control arms, ball joints, coil overs, ect. I'll also load that up with a resealed L67 bottom end. I'll put head studs in it, and a valve train. Once that is all ready to go, I'll pull the heads, intake, steering rack, and all the stuff I'm not replacing on the Camaro, put it on the new K-member, and swap the whole assembly. It might seem a little funny to have so much business at the front of a car with stock everything behind it, but it's the most efficient way I can think of getting this done.

This of course all depends on if the transmission remains in good health. I think a TKO600 would be a pretty solid upgrade, but I did not expect to be making 400 ft/lbs at this point. A T56 or automatic may need to happen instead.
 

v6buicks

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Congrats on the tune and the results! I’d be super happy with your setup! I bet it will run with full bolt on LS powered 4th gens! Not too shabby at all!!
Thanks man! The goal is definitely to surprise people. We'll see though. Even after greatly improving the shifting with the new transmission mount I still really suck at driving stick. ?

I think a launch controller of some form would help remove some of the human error from a stop, but this Mack garbage truck shifter is certainly not doing me any favors once I get going either. In the end, I'm already on borrowed time with this transmission. I'm not really sure what to do about all that yet as any fix quickly takes me down a slippery slope.

As previously mentioned, I'm not going to worry about any of it for a long time. I'm probably going to just do chassis and comfort modifications until I break something. It would be cool to jump right into an L67 replacement or something like that, but this chassis needs a lot of help. The engine and trans currently don't. lol

Then again, I could always just prepare this engine for the next recipient while still upgrading things... The next car that would receive this engine would be a quiet highway cruiser built for every day use. I'm talking about AC, power everything, good radio, and road trip ready, but still having the nuts to get out of it's own way. In other words, I won't be needing enough power to trash an L36, and fuel (93) mileage will be a slight priority as well. For an application like that how do you all feel about 1.9:1 rocker arms, stiffer springs, and no cam to hold me over? Then I can take my sweet assed time building up an L67 bottom end in the back ground. :cool:

Damn it... here we go. It hasn't even been a week and I'm already planning the next phase.
 

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Honestly, just toss some springs on it and enjoy the car. It's reliable, the motor in your car can take that power all day long, IDK about the trans, are those the same as an S10 5 speed?

As for 93, you should ask Brian if he can adjust your tune to run on 93. He's already got your file and your $$$ it wouldn't be hard for him to just back the timing down and adjust the IFR table to run 93. You can just load that file. You would also have to lower the boost pressure or just know you're on 93 and not get on it.

Have you gutted the AC too far to put it back in? AC is a must IMO.
 

v6buicks

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Honestly, just toss some springs on it and enjoy the car. It's reliable, the motor in your car can take that power all day long, IDK about the trans, are those the same as an S10 5 speed?

As for 93, you should ask Brian if he can adjust your tune to run on 93. He's already got your file and your $$$ it wouldn't be hard for him to just back the timing down and adjust the IFR table to run 93. You can just load that file. You would also have to lower the boost pressure or just know you're on 93 and not get on it.

Have you gutted the AC too far to put it back in? AC is a must IMO.
I probably should have been more clear. The Camaro is my "racecar" even though I'll probably never get into racing. I really just wanted to build the most fun Buick powered car I could without spending a ton of money. Removing the AC was one of the first things I did. The condenser was so corroded that It came out like a slinky, and the lines bent like straw. In hindsight, would AC be nice? Yeah, but it's never going back in. The way I routed the exhaust wont allow for stock compressor location. The radiator is upright now, so a condenser won't fit anymore. I removed the center vent duct and plastic welded it shut. One of my favorite modifications on the car was deleting the engine bay side of the HVAC housing so that I could install a firewall plate while still retaining the heater (page 9). That plate makes spark plug changes and valve cover removal a million times easier, and eventually it's going to allow me to run a downpipe with full exhaust. I think I'm just going to get some window tints, crank my windows down, and call it good. lol

What I meant with the whole 93 and quiet cruiser stuff was in regard to a completely different project. I eventually want to ditch the L36 in the Camaro for an L67 and automatic because it would be faster/stronger. However, since the L36 and T5 are still good at the moment, I was thinking about swapping it into another car with different goals. Keep in mind that I have some swap mounts and another turbo kit in my basement grabbing dust!
 

v6buicks

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...but that's all a ton of work. That only sounds like fun if you don't think about it. You're right. Valve springs would get me by just fine. Any recommendations? Maybe 90s?

I forgot to address the trans. It's a T5 WC, so it's essentially the same thing that tons of Mustangs, S10s, and 3rd gen Camaros got. They can handle some beating. A good shifter goes a long way, but the trans itself isn't worth building. The biggest issue is that too much torque will actually spread the case apart. The one in the 4th gen V6 cars are a bastard in that they have a Ford style case pattern. I think it could be swapped with a Ford style TKO600 fairly easily, but there are so many measurements to consider, that I'm not sure if I even want to attempt it. The coin it takes to obtain one is way too much for only 600ft/lb capability anyway.
 

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