Drag to reposition cover

LAME Turbo V6 Camaro


OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
The following are all pictures during cruise.






I took this short video while trying to blip the throttle, but naturally, it was raining so hard that my engine was sucking in water....
https://i.imgur.com/8UTg3YS.mp4]

Anyway, I'm not sure if that helped at all. lol My Long terms never seemed to "lock in" unless I was still holding onto WOT. Maybe I misunderstood, and that's what you meant? I guess the point is that the long terms went negative about 4-5% every time I stabbed it. I just find it odd that when I cruise the trims are almost always very high with bank 2 being much higher than bank 1.
 

GTPpower

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
649
Location
Nebraska
Who tuned the pcm? It's odd that your banks are that far apart. You should scan both o2's and make sure they are oscillating like they should.

Nice build btw.
 

10sec

I haz dat teddy bear smile.
Donating Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
24,474
Reaction score
1,297
The banks could be different because one side is much longer than the other to get to the turbo. They would eventually even out at the same RPM for couple miles, unless the tune is super jacked up. Cruising is off, but wide open throttle sounds like it's doing okay. I wish you had a way to scan a WOT run to see how that looks, cause if that's fine old girl just needs some maf scaling to clean up the cruising and start adding boost. I'd bet I could get that on the first shot.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
Who tuned the pcm? It's odd that your banks are that far apart. You should scan both o2's and make sure they are oscillating like they should.

Nice build btw.
Thank you! John at Intense did the mail order. To be fair, he warned me ahead of time that this is only to get me going until I can get a real dyno tune. It's not intended to really be beat on or driven daily.

When you ask about scanning does my attachment tell you anything? If not I can probably figure out how to ad PIDs, but ST and LTFTs are in there. Just take it with a grain of salt. That's with a slipping clutch, and god knows what other issues were going on at that time.

The banks could be different because one side is much longer than the other to get to the turbo. They would eventually even out at the same RPM for couple miles, unless the tune is super jacked up. Cruising is off, but wide open throttle sounds like it's doing okay. I wish you had a way to scan a WOT run to see how that looks, cause if that's fine old girl just needs some maf scaling to clean up the cruising and start adding boost. I'd bet I could get that on the first shot.
You beat me to it. I was going to ask if my exhaust design could be something to do with it. Bank 2 is in no way the same as it was from the factory, and I wondered if I could have introduced some odd turbulence. I don't know. I'm reaching.

Check my attachment. It's kind of a crude way of compiling data, but I'll bet I can figure out how to graph it. My exel skills just aren't very good yet. I would also take the car out for another drive to get more recent data, but I just spent about 15 minutes playing musical cars. It's blocked in now.
 

Attachments

10sec

I haz dat teddy bear smile.
Donating Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
24,474
Reaction score
1,297
Get more important data, I didn't see a throttle % over 35-ish the entire scan. Cruising data is good, but the computer already tells you what it needs for adjustment. It's the higher TPS %'s that tell the story of what's going on. IMO, just cruising around it's lean, but it's not bad and under the little bit of load you put it under it was great, which is important so whoever sent that mail order tune did a good job. Kept it safe so you don't hurt the motor. I didn't see an O2 on that scan either, did I miss it?
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
Sounds good! I'll be sure to cycle the throttle a few times next time it's out. You didn't miss it. It's not set up, and I have no idea how to do so. My wideband is physically wired in place of the AC pressure switch, but I don't know if that's even set up right in the ECM. If it is, I don't know how how to log "AC pressure" lol I have some work to do there.
 

10sec

I haz dat teddy bear smile.
Donating Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
24,474
Reaction score
1,297
That's advanced shit, so I don't blame you. Stock 02 stuff tho should be part of the scan tho, you just have to add them. If that's over your head, that's fine, I can tell you with 100% confidence the car is perfectly fine to drive around. I can't confirm WOT though, not without an o2 reading, both would be the best. IF I was sitting in the car with my laptop with the scanner running and seeing what I saw in your scan without the o2's I'd be confident for a full 1:1 pull, because it looks great, but I'm not haha.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
Ohhhhh I thought you meant like an actual AFR scan. Well yeah, I should be able to pull narrow bands up some way. I just have to find out what the app calls it. I have "02 sensor wide-range voltage" I'm guessing that's it. We'll find out after the next drive I guess.
 

10sec

I haz dat teddy bear smile.
Donating Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2008
Messages
24,474
Reaction score
1,297
Narrow bands get a bad rep, but you can reference them with the wideband readings to get a good platform to work with. Some read lean, some read rich, but if the wideband is reading 11.5:1, you can take that number and compare it to what the narrow bands are reading, and easily tune the car. The Wideband is always just a reference, unless it's a piece of shit and isn't reading right. So with that said, if you have 2 narrow bands reading one thing (good) and the wideband reading another (rich/lean) it's 2 against one, they win. In that case the wideband is either in the wrong place or isn't reading properly.
 

GTPpower

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
649
Location
Nebraska
In my experience, that isn't true. The narrowband is neither accurate nor consistent at anything other than stoich.


You have a problem somewhere. Your trims shouldn't be that high. If the trims aren't in the +10/-10 range, there is almost always a problem.

Can you create logs with torque pro? It's so much easier to figure this out when we have an actual scan to look at.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
Bank 1 (stock)


Bank 2


Of course it's hard to tell just by looking at it. I could see how this sensor would be in a high pressure spot though. Bank 1 merges only an inch or so down stream, and the turbo is less than a foot from there. I hoped that opening up the diameter 1/2" post sensor would alleviate back pressure problems on that bank, but maybe not. I've been monitoring the exhaust runner temps and that sensor every so often with my temp gun, but it doesn't really work in place of live EGTs. Besides, I'm sure the wrap in conjunction with cast manifolds can hide a lot of temp inside!

Interesting read Mr_Roboto. I saw what you were referring to on page 4.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
I would disable o2's temporarily and see how itruns.
Just driving and listening to the car it ran just fine before all this rain. It's the numbers that didn't seem right. I think disabling will only make it run worse and make me more blind to issues. I don't have the capability without tuning software anyway.

Besides... The car seems to have done that on it's own, but I'll get to that in a minute.

I tried to take the car on another test drive, but of course it's still raining. I was driving along just fine yesterday, but as soon as the rain hit and got the car wet it's been running like total crap. This usually happens after a car wash too, but I haven't figured out why.

I confirmed that the MAF isn't wet. the inside of the up pipe is bone dry.
With all that piping I have I wouldn't think that was the case, but its acting the same as another car I had in which case the MAF was the culprit. Any ideas?

Anyway, attached is my latest logs. The first one is from the drive and the second one was a test just sitting in the garage. Neither are any good once again because of the water problem. It popped really bad when I floored it. However, one thing I'm noticing is that my data does not at all match my scan gauge. I didn't actually see the gauge read anything but 815 for bank 2 O2 mV... I did keep it running once I got home to make the following video, but when I pulled the car into the garage, the reading went from 815 to 450. Then it stayed that way until the gauge shut itself off after I turned the car off. Clearly it should have read 0 at that point like the the other bank did.
Weird...

https://i.imgur.com/OQRlKWt.mp4

Then it gets weirder. The gauge just gave up on displaying that O2.



I wonder if it's the scan gauge malfunctioning. Maybe my OBD splitter?
 

Attachments

GTPpower

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
649
Location
Nebraska
You've definitely got a problem someplace. I don't think it's the tune either. To me, your o2's appear to be acting goofy. If you unplug them, the car will automatically switch to open loop. Is it loping when idiling? Something else, is check for vacuum leaks.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
Yeah, after today I've realized that I have to break the tools out again. I'll try those things. Thanks
 

SaturdaysGS

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
4,318
Reaction score
192
Location
Chicago (Southside)
I had a similar issue where every time it rained my car would do funky things also as far as fueling (verified it on the wideband). Not sure what the issue was but I replaced the upstream oxygen sensor (I only had 1 upstream) and the “extension harness” that I needed to get the wiring to reach where it was mounted and the issue had gone away. It would seem to cause the car to go super lean while cruising and then it finally would snap back. Not sure what that was all about, thought it might have been a voltage issue.
 

Mr_Roboto

Doing the jobs nobody wants to
Donating Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
14,522
Reaction score
2,275
Location
Joliet
As a dumb question can you get a NB output off your WB? That may be a better way to go tbh esp if it's post turbo.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
As a dumb question can you get a NB output off your WB? That may be a better way to go tbh esp if it's post turbo.
I do not believe so. It just has the 0-5V analog wideband signal that I have not figured out how to log yet. It might not be possible with the app I'm using.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
Straight from the Aeroforce FAQ

Can I use the gauge at the same time as other scan devices or equipment plugged into the OBD2 port?

Probably not as the OBD2 port is designed for only one device. You can try this, it won't hurt anything, and it is possible that some devices are compatible depending on how they are accessing data. Most devices are not compatible however and one or both may hang up and not display data.
I will try unplugging the bluetooth adapter, and see if that clears up. Then I will unplug the gauge to make some logs. Hopefully the logs remain looking normal so that I can just disregard the gauge when logging. Otherwise, I will will have to do some wiring to move my obd port. Right now everything is tucked up over the kick panel which isn't very convenient for changing scan tools out. I think we're getting somewhere!
 

GTPpower

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
2,986
Reaction score
649
Location
Nebraska
I've used a splitter before so I can watch the aeroforce and record everything with the laptop. Speed definitely decreases like that though. I can see it causing issues.


You really need to just invest in hp tuners.
 

Mr_Roboto

Doing the jobs nobody wants to
Donating Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
14,522
Reaction score
2,275
Location
Joliet
What model AEM gauge do you have? Just curious I've never seen the analog out one like that.
 

bs009

not so well-known member
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
231
Reaction score
104
Location
Michi-land
Sweet build! Wish I saw this when I was in the area last week for Power Tour, could have helped a little since I had my DHP with me.

I don't have much else to add that hasn't been mentioned already. Just keep an eye on that wideband when you're getting on it to make sure it's not going lean under boost.

If you have an exhaust leak before or slightly after the O2's that could be causing some weird readings on them causing the weird fuel trims.

+1 on the injectors probably not being scaled properly. Betting it has to do with the non-boost-referenced FPR in the stock rail vs what might be in the tune. You can always scale the MAF too to adjust for that though I guess when it gets tuned.

If you can somehow add the voltage from the analog output of the wideband to the log that'd be helpful.
Some folks use the EGR inputs to log the wideband since it's usually deleted on most turbo cars. No idea if that's possible with what you're logging with though.
Probably not a big deal though if you're not able to make changes to the tune anyway though.
 
OP
v6buicks

v6buicks

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
1,184
Reaction score
855
Location
Franklin, IN
I've used a splitter before so I can watch the aeroforce and record everything with the laptop. Speed definitely decreases like that though. I can see it causing issues.


You really need to just invest in hp tuners.
I debated that for a long time when I was considering the idea of trying to tune the car myself, but it just doesn't seem worth it in the end.

Once I get this dialed in with it's current set-up, I think I'm done playing with it. The next step would be building up a more aggressive set-up on a separate k-member or maybe a whole different shell. At that point, I'd rather take the leap on something more user friendly and less limited like MS3 or Holly EFI. Who knows though. I may change my mind.

What model AEM gauge do you have? Just curious I've never seen the analog out one like that.
30-5143
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Top Bottom