BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[sktchy]

I wouldn't mind a beefier alternator anyway. I had thoughts of trying to run the l67 alternator but the tensioner wouldn't clear the intake. I'm just happy mine hasn't been killing itself I had a hell of a draw before I put this l67 in it.

 

[wonderlander774]

Good stuff

 

[v6buicks]

I was perusing Facebook and saw a question on 3800 Performance. A guy wanted to know who it was that machined Rollmasters for the crank chamfer. My internal response was "there's a guy for that?" I commented in hopes of getting the answer. Sure enough, Jason Farnsworth is the guy. My set is boxed up and ready to ship. I wasn't expecting to spend a penny on the Camaro until the GN was done, but I figured it was worth doing that while the name was fresh in my head. One less thing to worry about when I finally do this cam swap.

I'm still a bit conflicted about the clutch situation. Should I just have the clutch mirror balanced to the L36 shit and be done? This is what I'm leaning towards because my engine is fine. I only worry because there aren't many people who have pushed and L36 as high as I would like to. The engine is coming out anyway, so this would be a prime opportunity to switch over to an L67 bottom end. I just don't have much trust in used engines anymore nor am I a very firm believer in the overall strength of an L67 being that much higher. I could go full tard and have a neutrally balanced short block built with fancy rods and pistons, but that seems like way too much coin for a guy who never really planned on blowing up or building the TKX. If any of you have a known good L67 hanging out that you're willing to part with, we should talk.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Oh thank God I'm not the only one. Tell farns I said what's up. tell him I said he's slow too.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

The flywheel is balanced to the engine the clutch assembly should be neutral balanced I've never come across an asymmetrically balanced pressure plate even on Dual Mass fly wheels.

The difference between the na and supercharged flywheel balance specs is 2 oz inches on early supercharged and na engines the later supercharged seem to be only one ounce inch off. I have rebalanced to the larger offset of the supercharged engine for my mezeers but a factory one I've never bothered with.
Naturally aspirated is 20 oz while early supercharged went as high as 22 but somewhere around $2,000 and later it only measured out at 21 for supercharged. L32 and l26 balance the same as their forefathers

 

[v6buicks]

The flywheel is balanced to the engine the clutch assembly should be neutral balanced I've never come across an asymmetrically balanced pressure plate even on Dual Mass fly wheels.

The difference between the na and supercharged flywheel balance specs is 2 oz inches on early supercharged and na engines the later supercharged seem to be only one ounce inch off. I have rebalanced to the larger offset of the supercharged engine for my mezeers but a factory one I've never bothered with.
Naturally aspirated is 20 oz while early supercharged went as high as 22 but somewhere around $2,000 and later it only measured out at 21 for supercharged. L32 and l26 balance the same as their forefathers

Right. The monster clutch I have includes an aluminum flywheel which is also neutrally balanced, so something has to change.

I totally forgot that the difference between NA and SC balance was marginal though. Good call. I'll probably just have this matched to the OG flywheel for now, and if I want to switch to an L67 later, it's going to be good enough.

I still know very little about the process though. I actually have an L67 flex plate in the basement. Could I just hand it to the shop instead of a flywheel? I don't see why not. It might be nice to get this ball rolling sooner so that I have all the parts ready to go when I'm ready to start tearing down. The only flywheel I have is in the car.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

The offset is the same weather a flywheel or flexplate although to be fair I've never had the flywheel measured. Only 14 various Flex plates

 

[sktchy]

Psht so far my l36 flywheel is fine on my L67 with just the L67 balancer. It's probably not right but I haven't noticed any sort of vibration at all. May be different with a balance shaft delete idk.

As far as looking for a used bottom end I say run your l36 til it's done and take your time finding somethin else or your gonna end up paying 7 or 800 bucks for a good L67. As far as me killin a bunch of l36 bottom ends I don't think it was their fault moreso than that damn bypass spring causing a pressure drop. Including the one I hose clamped a piston into on the floor and washed out with a garden hose, probably gonna put that one back together.

 

[sktchy]

Also good to see you back I hope your vacay was awesome

 

[v6buicks]

Thanks! It was a great trip.... maybe a little too good.

Like I mentioned in the GN thread, I went with the intention of forgetting all my troubles and it absolutely worked. I relaxed until my brain turned into mush. I didn't even go to the garage for a week after I got home, and when I finally forced myself to put on the coveralls I couldn't remember what I was supposed to be working on.

I missed bantering about car stuff with the homies, but I didn't really miss the internet or the miserable fucks. I'm gonna try to stay in the build threads and 3800 tech. It's my happy place away from the swim-up bar.

 

[bs009]

Regarding the L67 vs L36 bottom end. For sure the pistons are going to be more resistant to knock chips on the L67 and the rods are so much beefier.
I know some people have pushed the L36 rods pretty far but I've heard a lot of people have broken them due to too much power. Stock cam turbo cars do make gobs of torque though and that's what would break a rod so that could be the difference between the ones that lasted and the ones that didn't.

I would just send it on the flywheel with L36 balancing either way. Pretty sure the vibration I was talking about with mine is probably due to my engine having low compression on a hole.

 

[v6buicks]

Regarding the L67 vs L36 bottom end. For sure the pistons are going to be more resistant to knock chips on the L67 and the rods are so much beefier.
I know some people have pushed the L36 rods pretty far but I've heard a lot of people have broken them due to too much power. Stock cam turbo cars do make gobs of torque though and that's what would break a rod so that could be the difference between the ones that lasted and the ones that didn't.

I would just send it on the flywheel with L36 balancing either way. Pretty sure the vibration I was talking about with mine is probably due to my engine having low compression on a hole.

I didn't realize that the L67 pistons were that much better.

I also continually fail to remember sometimes that I have a stick which also won't be particularly nice to rods being pushed to their limits. Maybe I'll keep looking for engines.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Had to look that up. They shortened the rod length to change the ring locations on the L67 stuff. Frickin wild.

 

[sktchy]

I don't know that the pistons are any stronger so much as the lower compression and shorter rods help with the cylinder pressure and deflection, detonation will still take them out or the max effort builds wouldn't be goin to forged flat tops and h beams

 

[bs009]

What I understand is that having more area above the ringland gives it more strength to resist a ring that is trying to chip off an area of the piston. It seems like it would also keep the piston ring a little further away from the heat too.

I'm definitely not the expert though, this is Turbocharged400sbc territory haha

 

[bs009]

On the other hand you could just get forged pistons and zzp's 4340 rods for $1,500 and not have to think about it again for a while. That's probably what I'm going to do here next for mine.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

The rod is only 0.1 in shorter on the sc.

The ring placement was primarily due to the Piston dish requirements for the compression ratio change. It also does increase durability.

Ideally you would use a flat top and machine the dish to mirror the chamber so that you maximize the quench squeeze area and maximize violent turbulence at TDC

 

[sktchy]

What I understand is that having more area above the ringland gives it more strength to resist a ring that is trying to chip off an area of the piston. It seems like it would also keep the piston ring a little further away from the heat too.

I'm definitely not the expert though, this is Turbocharged400sbc territory haha

It may be thicker but I feel like having a dish in it is going to negate the strength factor when you compare it to a flat top. James would know but that's just my miseducated guess

 

[GTPpower]

L67 pistons are definitely better at resisting ringland chips since that area is thicker.

Also, it was mentioned above about zzp's 4340 rods. I don't think they are any stronger than l67 or l32 rods, because they are too light. Imo, they would be great for higher reving, but if you're after strength, I think there are better choices.

 

[v6buicks]

I really don't want to buy a new engine, but I think it's the correct thing to do in this situation. Quick googling and marketplacing yields results that I'm not used to seeing. I miss $200 L67s with under 120k on them. I also really don't need another M90 that I can't sell.

 

[sktchy]

Honestly at this point if I have another one let go I'm just taking a bare block into the machine shop to be align honed and have new cam bearings stuck in it. Probably just build it back with stock L67 stuff but rollin the dice on a few hundred bucks and probably a good 20 hours of my time by the time I get another swapped in gets old.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

I would use flat tops machined with a mirror pocket to the chamber and I would use the X beam rods the information I've come across regarding oil windage and resistance cutting through the oil mist probably be worth it.

I would be ecstatic to just take one of my current supercharged shorties reuse the pistons and rings and just put in the aftermarket X beam rods after doing some knife edging on the crank counterweights before some balancing work...
Aftermarket pistons on these things are awfully heavy

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

I keep looking at the aftermarket 3.8 crankshafts and I seriously keep wanting to just make a rear block cover that uses the old style seal

 

[sktchy]

I keep looking at the aftermarket 3.8 crankshafts and I seriously keep wanting to just make a rear block cover that uses the old style seal

If you don't do it nobody else is going to ?

 

[v6buicks]

As seen in my other thread, the first engine replacement adventure didn't go as well as I hoped.

I didn't buy this one. I should have offered him $100, but I passed instead. I really just want a good short factory short block. I'm going to keep looking, but future loose engine deals would need to be under less sketchy circumstances for me to pursue. I'm getting a lot of duds even from good sellers. A buddy of mine is probably going to help me grab one from the yard this summer if I don't have one by then.

In other news, the car fired up without a jump and drove home without drama. Idk if the whole thing about E85 longevity is becoming a thing of the past or if I'm worried about an old wives tale, but this is the second year in a row for having a full tank of E just chillin.

The bad news is that I can't justify storing cars here anymore. ?

Last year it was just little nibbles from the GN plug wires, but this corrosion just plain sucks.

Overall, I'm just happy it still runs and drives like the day I dropped it off. ?