BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[v6buicks]

The knock sensors are piezoelectric crystals that are basically tuned for certain frequencies that are found when the engine experiences detonation they verify this via Dyno testing cuz a lot of it's dependent on piston and combustion chamber design etc.

Na cars specify a higher torque number for tightening the water jacket drain plugs aka the knock sensors then the supercharged cars which specify a lower torque which makes them less sensitive since they have a piston with a dish reducing compression ratio.

All I know is that more than a few times I've come across Oddball Hardware numbers and vehicles with really weird f****** issues and it makes sense if you look at the bell curve of life that there's going to be some lower quality s*** that gets tossed in your parts bin cars.

You can't let good-ish Parts go to waste.

Near as I can tell they have tons of Oddball numbers for probably very specific calibrations to make these computers work with certain vehicles...

Anyone else remember how every now and then there'd be someone with just an entire knock lobster no matter what they f****** did?

Dave aka @02BlueGT did.

Changed the Oddball computer to a 7440 and all problems disappeared.

Nothing changed even with an entirely different engine until we replaced the PCM

Now it's nearly one of the first things I check on a person's computer

First of all, I love that testimony at the end. It makes me feel I did something worthwhile.

Second of all, I never would have guessed that NA and SC cars had a different knock sensor torque spec! Although I probably would have found that in the FSM when it was actually time to swap those out, it's great food for thought. So I assume the knock retard software calibration is the same? I've never seen a table in HP, so I'm guessing they were turned off in powertunr or something. Either way, mechanical calibrations are cool. lol

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

I'm going to guess that the one inch off of the deck height and the reworking of everything for the modern metric low drag ring set is what dictated the ringland thickness and from there they probably just destructively tested until they found which knock sensor torque to go with for the weak na pistons and the stronger supercharged Pistons.
I bet the closest to math they got was the dart games at the bar after work.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

The thing I wonder is whether or not it's only the supercharged cars and the high-end models with the 7440 that got the grade a top of the line computers that passed all the QC tests.

Is there a chance that 7440s with certain features not working got put into 3100s?
That's the question.
I would think they would assign it a different Hardware number. But I question my sanity with a lot of what GM has decided

 

[v6buicks]

Let's just hope I don't run into anything stupid. I will certainly keep my original ECM as a spare. It's still not a huge deal if I don't have knock sensors. If I run into any meaningful knock with E85, an intercooler, and 20+ psi, my L36 pistons are probably toast before the knock sensors prevent damage anyway. I trust my tuner.

 

[sktchy3.8]

Any time I run into knock I can't get rid of its because there's somethin else wrong

I've got two 7440s both from firebirds and I'm not entirely convinced they make much difference other than giving hpt a screwed up oil pressure value.

The attack rates for the amount of knick is where you'll find the difference and if that's set to 0 that's an easy way to shut them off for a given rpm range.

If it's tuned by the power curve where it starts layin over like it should be then in theory you should never need them but they are a nice failsafe to have in case something goes wrong. The "tune the knock out of it" mindset in the 3800 community is ridiculous especially with as easy as it it to take one out with very little knock shown at all.

 

[v6buicks]

You're monitoring oil pressure in HP? I didn't think that was even possible unless you wired a sensor to the pro-link.

 

[sktchy3.8]

I forget what pcm number it had before but both of the 7440s show it as negative in hpt and it always worked up until that point.

 

[sktchy3.8]

I would assume it's somethin to do with the camaros and firebird having am actual oil pressure gauge and the 7440 pcms predominantly being meant for the l67 cars and most of those just had a switch and a light?

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

That is entirely likely they would not have built it into the OS if they didn't need to

 

[sktchy3.8]

I've been writing entire and putting my drive by cable os on them because both of my 7440s are for drive by wire. It almost makes me wonder if they lack the circuit entirely

 

[sktchy3.8]

But it also only effects logged parameters. The gauge still functions normally, in my case it's usually towards the floor anyway.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

If it's tuned by the power curve where it starts layin over like it should be then in theory you should never need them but they are a nice failsafe to have in case something goes wrong. The "tune the knock out of it" mindset in the 3800 community is ridiculous especially with as easy as it it to take one out with very little knock shown at all.

This is an important train of thought. If you've got the ability to check via a track or dyno, tuning to knock isn't a good idea. Hitting detonation may not happen for a few degrees after you nose over power wise. It depends on a lot of factors. You won't really know with out some way of measuring power levels.

That said, your fuel may mean you have to "tune the knock out" but I'd rather be at the point that you're using knock as protection against a bad tank of gas or other mishaps.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

People run these things too rich already

 

[sktchy3.8]

Also important to mention rich can cause knock as well and most of the stuff I've seen gets put in the 11 to 11.5 range. Ideally I'd like to get to a low 12 on low boost and leave it alone but I'll agree most of them are too rich. I think most of it's kind of that same thought process as the boosted ls stuff guys are runnin 10.5s and tryin to push a 4.0 pressure ratio through tho, washin the knock down or whatever lol.

I get it in theory anyway, at the same time it's hard to trust my thoughts on it all when I can't keep a bottom end together to save my ass soooo, there's that.

 

[v6buicks]

My goals for the winter (the ones I already slashed down) are starting to feel a bit lofty again.

I don't think that 600hp is going to happen this time. I could strain my wallet and probably make it happen, but I won't feel at all comfortable using it. I think 500hp will be plenty to destroy the 10 bolt I can't afford to replace or just lose control of the car because my suspension is nothing all that special. I figure 380hp and 10-12 psi has kept me very entertained while I sorted reliability and drivability stuff out over the past couple years. 500hp will certainly hold me over for a while.

Updated goals to achieve before 2023 GS Nationals (Unofficially May 17-20)
-Viking coilovers
-Rear control arms (one poly bushing and one heim joint)
-K-member swap
-Front control arm refresh
*Rust control
*New bushings
*Ball joints
-Tie rod ends
-Alignment
-Heads/Cam
*Determine length/purchase stronger pushrods
-Figure out which rails to use because holes will need to be tapped/plugged somewhere. I have a bunch of L36 rail options but I don't really want to mess up the perfect L67 ports.
-Rust remediation and repaint of engine bay
-Wire harness clean up and modification for WOT box
-Clutch
*Find a shop who will mirror balance
*Reset HTOB depth (good news: I found the original bearing retainer from Tilton which may be necessary now)
-Replace/shield knock sensors
-Tune/don't blow it up

I think that's it.... I basically just cut the fuel system upgrades out of it. Maybe I can tune for a mild cam myself with your help? It's not that changing that stuff is a lot of work, it's just going to be costly, and I have a feeling that I'm going to be nickel and dimed a lot with everything I'm diving into. A lot of these line items are big cans of worms on their own, so I'm still a bit nervous about the time line. I should be driving the snot out of this car right now given the awesome driving weather, but it's just not panning out. I'm over coming into work and smelling like oil all day anyway. The GN is getting put away in the next couple weeks. Once that happens, the body is getting pulled from the K-member.

 

[sktchy3.8]

Also as far as the power levels your maf curve gives a somewhat decent idea of what your doing up until you can actually measure it, a little zooming in on a log and watching your airflow numbers can go a long way and if it stops gaining in a particular rpm range then you back it off a degree or two and send it really. Usually my rod bearings are gone before I get to tryin to add timing though.

 

[sktchy3.8]

I've got all the faith in the world that you can tune it yourself. Seems like you've got a good starting point so should just be roping it back in really

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Balanstar for mirror balance.
The only difference between my fat man Na and supercharged rail sets is the brackets. Make new brackets and you're done

 

[v6buicks]

Balanstar for mirror balance.
The only difference between my fat man Na and supercharged rail sets is the brackets. Make new brackets and you're done

Thanks for the recommendation. I didn't really consider going up there to have the work done, but I'm weary of some of the "race shops" down here.

For factory rails I'd have to at least make them two pieces though, right? For the wider spread?

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

To be clear balanstar makes balancing equipment but they also balance at some of their locations and if you call them they could probably give you one of their customers near you that has a machine

 

[v6buicks]

The GN got mad at me for trying to put her in storage again. In protest, she chucked the turbo nut into the compressor blade. It worked.

The Camaro is now in storage instead of the GN. I still want to get the Camaro to the GS Nats, but it will be with few changes. I will try to get GM stem seals to combat the smoke. I will likely swap back to EV6 injectors and connectors so that the GN can have my EV1 80s (It's E85 time!), and if I'm feeling really ambitious I'll try to put that Monster clutch in. 3800 engine upgrades for this winter are off the table. The GN is going to take way too much of my time. However, if I bust enough ass the GN might make equal if not more power than the Camaro which is more awesome.

 

[v6buicks]

The GN refreshing was going very slowly due to funds. When funds were no longer the problem, back ordered parts put me even further behind.

To make a long story short, I spent most of the last month on the couch. I have a hard time sitting still that long without getting depressed. I like progress. I was actually bitching about it to my wife when the light bulb turned on. I had completely forgotten about the fiberglass mess in my basement.

I stiffened up this wall. I still hate that it ruins the whole point of the blower housing's turbine shape, but there isn't much I can do about it.

I know I've brought this up before, but I'm worried about having a goofy high pressure spot with nowhere for the air to go. I feel like having this smaller opening is going to hurt the efficiency of the blower at the minimum. It might also create some annoying noises or a build up of leaves. My hands are pretty tied in terms of evaporator size and position at this point though. I guess I'll keep winging this as I have been.

I also made a little visit to the car today. It looks like the mice were uninterested.

I plugged the battery back in and it fired right up! No jump pack was needed or anything. I miss this thing, and hope like hell that the GN parts don't delay my ability to drive any of my cars!

I didn't expect to make any Camaro progress this winter, but I might be getting this HVAC box knocked out. It's close enough that I can start considering how to seal it. I'm thinking it will be mostly foam strips, but a little bit of strip caulk. I have also decided that the delete plate will be boxed with aluminum. It will be brazed together because I don't have a TIG welder. Beyond that, I'm still winging it.

At least the dust is burned out of the exhaust and the battery is recharged.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Feel for ya man. Haven't touched mine in about 3 weeks. Need to get something done, any thing really. Probably last week of December maybe January. The garage is unheated and therefore motivation is low.

 

[sktchy3.8]

Good seeing you do somethin with this even if it's little. I totally understand how sitting will drive you nuts but at the same time I've been doing the same lately and it's been a nice break. However I'm getting tired of it fast and looking towards varying myself in stuff to do again sooner than later.

 

[v6buicks]

It is really nice to sit and not work on anything for a week or two, but I hate losing my momentum. I guess I can be thankful that it's not really my fault nor the garage's this time. I'm motivated to get things done, but this AC project might put me right back into couch/beer mode. The willpower to finish this thing is still there, but damn is it tedious for something that might not even work that well.

I also failed to mention that I finally found a couple places that build 220A alternators for '02 V6 cars. It turns out that these 12V AC compressors draw 120A. I'm gonna need that boost.