🏥 Health Keto - Who is doing it? Who has comments or questions?

[Flyn]

With the low calorie intake, I figure as long as I feel good, not lethargic or weak, my body is getting its energy from body fat. At 6', 216, I still probably have 100,000 fat calories floating around. If I burn 1,000 a day, it's a couple months to get down to my goal.

 

[Flyn]

That's your entire day? If the calories are accurate (i'd do a double check) that is way way way too low. You'd burn more than that even if you just laid around bed all day like a vegetable

Yeah, no snacks at all. 2 meals a day. Within 6 hours of each other. I googled calories for all the ingredients and added them up to get 903 calories. Rounded it up to 1,000 because of the salad dressing and thick bacon. Eggs were large, too, so that could be a few more calories.

Keto Dr. Eric, suggests dropping to 1 meal a day if you don't lose weight at 2. He suggests dropping to 1 meal every 2 days if that doesn't work. He's not concerned with low calorie intake. Just have to keep my body out of starvation mode.

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

Yeah, no snacks at all. 2 meals a day. Within 6 hours of each other. I googled calories for all the ingredients and added them up to get 903 calories. Rounded it up to 1,000 because of the salad dressing and thick bacon. Eggs were large, too, so that could be a few more calories.

Keto Dr. Eric, suggests dropping to 1 meal a day if you don't lose weight at 2. He suggests dropping to 1 meal every 2 days if that doesn't work. He's not concerned with low calorie intake. Just have to keep my body out of starvation mode.

You're getting terrible terrible advice dude, what a complete fucking moron to suggest only eating one meal every two days . FWIW there are A LOT of MD's that preach about nutrition, even though they don't really spend much time in med school learning about nutrition from what I've read. I personally know a lot of docs that corroborate this. Follow guys with PhD's in nutrition science like Layne Norton.

1k calories a day is straight up starvation and will absolutely wreck your metabolism. If you ever start eating a normal amount of calories you'll pack on weight faster than you can imagine. Not to mention your body will have devoured any muscle mass it did have, so you'll just be skinny-fat.

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

Calories in vs calories out is literal physics, it cannot be circumvented. Calories are a measure of energy. Body fat is stored energy. If you want to burn off the stored energy, you need to burn off more energy (calories) than you consume. HOWEVER, if you cut your energy intake too drastically (as it sounds like you are), your metabolism WILL slow down so you don't literally starve to death. Then when you have a slow metabolism that's adjusted to 1k cals/day you have a few options:

1. Continue eating 1k cals/day forever and live with the longer term negative health effects that come with it
2. Start eating like a normal human, but understand that your slow ass metabolism no longer needs as many calories as a normal human so that extra intake will turn in to stored energy (body fat)
3. Consult with someone that knows what the hell they're talking about and do a proper reverse diet to get your metabolism moving again

Much easier to just keep yourself in a modest deficit of 3-500 cals per day, which will probably result in you losing 0.5-1% of your body weight in fat each week (this is variable based on body composition, activity levels etc).

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

I have noticed that a lot of the docs that give bad advice are low-carb (keto) zealots. I enjoy watching layne norton, an actual scientist, destroy them

 

[Flyn]

That is why the Keto docs and experts suggest IF, intermittent fasting. Kick the body out of starvation mode with a couple meals then hold off on food for a day or so. When you get hungry, eat until you are satisfied. The theory is the body is burning the fat which you have trained it to do so it burns body fat as easily as fat intake and is fooled into not lowering the metabolism. It's getting energy, just from body fat as well as intake fat. There are also ways to increase the metabolism and help protect the muscle through the foods you do eat. Some of them talk about balancing the food intake because of the factors you mention. It's a complicated diet that I would not recommend for people who can't pay attention to their bodies and do a lot of research. Going into it half ass could give negative results like you mention.

I am trying to read up/watch videos an hour or two a night to learn as much as possible about both sides of the argument.

If you look at videos by Thomas DeLauer, he has been on Keto for 10 years and has one hell of a body. Seems he knows what he is doing and he's a real kind of guy. He talks a lot of chemicals and medical stuff, good and bad, and shares what he has learned over the years. He's into the complete fitness, feel good package which has Keto and IF as a part of it.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTdelauer

 

[Flyn]

 

[Flyn]

I am doing a lot of label reading lately and Amy is complaining I have her buying expensive healthy versions of dressings and sauces. They do taste a lot better than the cheaper stuff, IMO.

 

[sickmint79]

With the low calorie intake, I figure as long as I feel good, not lethargic or weak, my body is getting its energy from body fat. At 6', 216, I still probably have 100,000 fat calories floating around. If I burn 1,000 a day, it's a couple months to get down to my goal.

there's no way 1000 calories isn't putting your body into slow metabolism adaption mode

at 1000 a day you are also not just losing fat, your body is absolutely going to be harvesting calories by cannibalizing muscle. 1000 a day is like, extremely obese person diet who needs to drop a fuckton of pounds immediately. at 216 lbs it is a terrible idea.

impressed if you have the willpower to actually sustain that for a couple months, but it's a horrible idea to start with.

there are a lot of claims around IF although the only one i'm 100% sure of is you simply eat less because you've created a smaller window to eat or snack on.

losing weight is just calories in and out, you should be manipulating your calorie budget by exercise that builds muscle (which sitting burns more calories) and various forms of lifestyle changes and/or cardio (to up your budget and general health) and eating a diet at or below those calories that you can comfortably sustain.

i would imagine a 1000 calorie diet would also reduce stuff like testosterone and bone strength? i can't believe any medical doctors at all would recommend this unless you're 400 lbs and need to cut to 350 by your surgery next month.

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

That is why the Keto docs and experts suggest IF, intermittent fasting. Kick the body out of starvation mode with a couple meals then hold off on food for a day or so. When you get hungry, eat until you are satisfied. The theory is the body is burning the fat which you have trained it to do so it burns body fat as easily as fat intake and is fooled into not lowering the metabolism. It's getting energy, just from body fat as well as intake fat. There are also ways to increase the metabolism and help protect the muscle through the foods you do eat. Some of them talk about balancing the food intake because of the factors you mention. It's a complicated diet that I would not recommend for people who can't pay attention to their bodies and do a lot of research. Going into it half ass could give negative results like you mention.

I am trying to read up/watch videos an hour or two a night to learn as much as possible about both sides of the argument.

If you look at videos by Thomas DeLauer, he has been on Keto for 10 years and has one hell of a body. Seems he knows what he is doing and he's a real kind of guy. He talks a lot of chemicals and medical stuff, good and bad, and shares what he has learned over the years. He's into the complete fitness, feel good package which has Keto and IF as a part of it.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTdelauer

Nothing, not high fat intake, not IF, can keep your body out of starvation mode if you're only eating 1k cals/day. Keto and IF are both great, but you still need to eat enough calories to keep your metabolism moving. And to answer sickmint79 's question, yes a calorie deficit that severe will absolutely wreck your hormones (mostly testosterone production)

 

[Flyn]

I added an italian sausage to the diet last night. That's actually an astounding nearly 400 calories for one sausage and probably put me around 1,300-1,400. My body was telling me it wanted the meat.

Woke up not hungry again. I could eat but don't need to. I'll wait until 2 p.m. and then have "brunch". The best part about the Keto diet is I'm not starving because the fat satiates me. Way different than just a low carb diet.

 

[Flyn]

Hardest part about the Keto so far is figuring out ways to eat 7 cups of veggies a day. I have been cramming veggies in meals and eating at least a salad a day. Hopefully the vitamins/minerals help with some of the issues you guys describe.

 

[sickmint79]

vitamins are not going to stop your body from cannibalizing muscles

eating a moderate deficit, high protein, and lifting some weights will tell your body "here's some free protein already for you to convert to energy, and by the way, i'm fucking using these things so don't destroy them kthnx"

 

[Flyn]

I'm on the Keto diet, not the paleo/carnivore high protein diet. 65-70% fat, 25% protein, 5% carbs. Eating too much protein would pull me out of ketosis.

 

[sickmint79]

i have a normally healthy body i've been lazy about using and my goal is to both build muscle and lose fat.

if your goal is to lose weight, i'd say who cares if you are in ketosis, there are many ways to lose weight, ideally while only losing fat.

if your goal is to lose weight, permanently change your diet, and manage diabetes via keto, i think that's fine - just not at a caloric intake of 1000 calories or even 1400, but good lord is the latter still better than the former. what is wrong with being in ketosis at 2000 calories? why the aggressive deficit, is there a swimsuit shoot you have coming up?

 

[Flyn]

The gurus say eat when you are hungry until you are satisfied and I'm not hungry. Maybe it's willpower or maybe my body is happy burning the body fat. I don't know. As far as my goals, they were originally to lose weight but now, seeing what Keto has done to my blood sugar, the goal is switching to a healthier lifestyle. My software says my A1C is 6.8 now. That's damned good for a type 1 diabetic.

 

[Flyn]

I lost another inch off my stomach. Weight loss is still at 10 lbs. Fat doesn't weigh as much as muscle? Still feeling good on 2 meals a day.

 

[sickmint79]

muscle is more dense than fat. 1 lb of muscles weighs the same as 1 lb of fat of course. get a smart scale and measure your body fat percentage if you want to see how much of each you are losing. they are not necessarily super accurate, but you can at least see a trend over time if you use the same scale and weigh yourself the same way.

technically it's possible for you to lose weight and get fatter. eg. you lose 10 lbs but your body fat percentage goes up 0.5% because you lost lean muscle. this is why your goal should be fat loss not weight loss, and why everyone is universally telling you 1000 calories a day is a terrible idea.

 

[Flyn]

Losing the inches seems to indicate I am losing the fat. My clothes are fitting better already. I had some breakfast sausage instead of bacon today to bump up the calories. It's amazing how many calories sausage has in comparison to bacon. Adding a few sausages adds hundreds of calories.

BTW, the "experts" are split on the 1,000 calories, not universal. It's more complicated than just looking at the number.

 

[radioguy6]

I found adding full fat dressings to salads and a good butter to dishes helped provide extra calories when needed too. I'd try and avoid oils like soybean, vegetable, and canola. On keto I'd usually cook with olive, avocado, or coconut oils.

 

[Flyn]

Thanks, I did toss a couple tablespoons of butter in the pan with the sausage and eggs.

I picked up some of the Primal Kitchen salad dressing because it's more natural and sugar free than most. Dinner tonight will be Keto pork chops in a mushroom sauce with spinach, Keto turkey soup and a salad with the Primal Kitchen dressing. I have people coming over so I'll see if they notice it's Keto. Amy is making au gratin potatoes because she loves her carbs so the rest of them can eat those, too.

 

[Flyn]

Another pound. 214. I was putting a radiator in Amy's car today and felt a little weak after a couple hours of work. Ate a bunless cheeseburger and feel good again. Like you guys have been saying, I need to make sure to eat enough, especially if I'm burning calories.

 

[Flyn]

Today's dinner is a New York strip steak with a mushroom cream sauce, cooked spinach in butter sauce and a slice of bread with butter. I have discovered I need to take some carbs so I can give myself some insulin. My ketones shot up too high after a day with next to no insulin. As a type 1 diabetic, my body doesn't make it so I need to get it with my insulin pump. I thought it would be good to go down to next to nothing but too little insulin is just as bad as too much even if my blood sugars are great. Gotta add a bit of carbs so I can take the insulin.

Tomorrow will be scallops over a big salad. Maybe another piece of bread. Not a hard diet to follow.

This sauce is great and super easy to make. https://www.lecremedelacrumb.com/mushroom-sauce-for-steak/

 

[FirstWorldProblems]

Today's dinner is a New York strip steak with a mushroom cream sauce, cooked spinach in butter sauce and a slice of bread with butter. I have discovered I need to take some carbs so I can give myself some insulin. My ketones shot up too high after a day with next to no insulin. As a type 1 diabetic, my body doesn't make it so I need to get it with my insulin pump. I thought it would be good to go down to next to nothing but too little insulin is just as bad as too much even if my blood sugars are great. Gotta add a bit of carbs so I can take the insulin.

Tomorrow will be scallops over a big salad. Maybe another piece of bread. Not a hard diet to follow.

This sauce is great and super easy to make. https://www.lecremedelacrumb.com/mushroom-sauce-for-steak/

Interesting, so I’m assuming those carbs kick you out of ketosis? I didn’t realize not using any insulin was a bad thing

 

[Flyn]

I didn't either until I started checking into what was the proper ketone level for Keto (.5-3s is usually quoted but under 10 is usually OK. Over 10 is bad). I checked my urine and I am still around 4 on the ketosis meter. That's OK. I'll check it again in the morning. When I didn't take insulin, my blood sugar was still under 120 but my ketones shot up to 16 which is ketoacidosis (very bad thing). The ketones dropped substantially after eating some carbs and taking insulin to match the carbs. I'm blown away by what I am seeing so far and wonder why most doctors don't really push lower carbs for type 1 diabetics. I am going to have a long conversation with my endocrinologist about this topic.

I am learning a ton the last couple weeks through reading papers and watching some of the better youtube videos. This one, for instance, is excellent. Shows another diabetic who had achieved similar results himself and has actually applied for patents on some of the low carb stuff. Sounds like he has done a LOT of research.



My A1C is now 6.7 and keeps dropping as I learn to control the diet/insulin better. I can see that with proper management of a low carb diet, I may be able to get my numbers down into non diabetic blood sugar levels. That's amazing.