3800 I have a lot of cam swap questions

Turbocharged400sbc

3800 & 4T80E > ALL
TCG Premium
Jun 16, 2007
32,538
15,846
hangover park IL
Only time any of you should be reusing stock pushrods is when you keep them paired with the cylinder port and its meeting components during disassembly and during reassembly so the parts that wear together, Stay Together.
Even making sure the pushrod is installed the right side up and the correct side towards the center of the engine with how the rocker end gets a football shape and the striations from the cup wear
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,489
11,683
Yeah I'm not even about to try and sort that out. I'm gonna grab the least hammered 12 I can find, sprayin some brake clean through em and they're goin in. If it still rattles then I'll break down and get a checker. Shouldn't be hard to tell what ends are the top side half of them I pulled out have had the tops beat to shit and probably lost the .05 easily anyway.

Next time it breaks I'll blame the pushrods but for now I just wanna see if I can get it to shut up
 

Turbocharged400sbc

3800 & 4T80E > ALL
TCG Premium
Jun 16, 2007
32,538
15,846
hangover park IL
You can always just sharpie or put dykem on the valve tips. That's a way to tell if the rocker is contacting in the middle and about how far off it is.

the tip roller sweep area is also determined by the fulcrum height, dont get into the mistake of just shooting for that....that is far more affected by how you hold and countertourque each rocker body as you tighten the rocker bolts in the proper pattern
 
  • Like
Reactions: GTPpower and sktchy

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,489
11,683
Another thing I noticed when going through my pile of junk is all the rockers have different indicators on them...6b, 2a, 4e etc.

Any idea what's going on there or is that just to put em back the way you found em? I guess I've always just swapped them around at will and never really run into issues other than pushrod length
 

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,258
15,450
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
I didn't want to start a new thread over this so I'm asking here. I'm doing a head gasket job using Fel-Pro 9089PT like many have suggested before. I don't like it, but the engine im putting together is not going to make enough cylinder pressure to blow one anyway. Lol

I had always installed Fel-Pros with the printing facing up. On the directional gaskets it's, the way you're supposed to do it anyway. For these non-directional gaskets you still have arrows which means one has the printing up and the other has printing down. It looks so wrong, and frankly no different than the NA gaskets I've used in the past.

Does anyone have experience with other Gaskets? I've heard a couple higher powered guys use Victor Reinz, and I'm thinking about buying some for the Camaro.
PXL_20230722_002522888.jpg

PXL_20230722_002858654.jpg
 

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,489
11,683
I use copper sprayed ebay gaskets and new ebay bolts but I've never pushed past 12 lbs to be able to say if they'll hold real power. I generally dump a bottle of k seal in the works to make damn sure things are sealed up but I'm sure I'll get called out for hack shit even though effing blueprint does it and doesn't tell anybody lol
 

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,489
11,683
I know this will work fine for my trash can, but I'm trying to build something a little nicer. ?
Dude, any time I've tried to build one of these nice and do it all right it blows up in my face. But I hose clamp a piston off the floor into one and wash it out with the garden hose and it runs like hell. 3800s are like toxic little girlfriends they love to be treated like shit for whatever reason ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kizzlebizz

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,258
15,450
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
I have a set of 1.9:1 modified stock rockers from the Grand Prix that I kind of want to sell, but that will require me to put the stock rockers from the Camaro in it to get the Grand Prix running again. Instead of buying another stock set from somebody I'm considering getting an aftermarket set.

With the ST2 cam, would it be worth stepping up to to ZZPs 1.65:1 set? From what I calculate that would get me a lift of .536" which is the same as the exhaust lift on an ST5. I wouldn't expect that to be an issue with my heads, but 1.65:1 is only available with ZZPs lightweight non-roller rockers. I really wanted to go with Yella Terras, but they're only available in 1.6, 1.7, 1.8, and 1.9:1. I think 1.7 is too much lift at .553". Since ZZPs rockers are also lightened, do you think I'll get more benefit from the slight increase in lift, or would the even lighter and roller tipped YTs with a stock ratio be better?
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

GTPpower

TCG Elite Member
Jun 5, 2012
6,294
9,609
Nebraska
Stock style rockers are complicated. I've seen them anywhere from 1.6 to 1.66 ratio. But, their ratio also depends on cam lift. The ratio increases with lift because the contact area of the rocker changes.

A roller tipped rocker will have a set lift. They may physically be lighter, but will have a higher moment of inertia, which will eat power and require more spring. Stock style rockers are better in about every way, unless you need adjustable.

I wouldn't get caught up too much on lift numbers, because it seems to make very little difference on these engines.

I probably have a few sets of stock rockers sitting in bags if you want them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,489
11,683
Now you guys have me thinking about dealing with pushrod length and the whole nine yards again but now I have a dumb question. Assuming the is2 turbo cam I'm waiting for is similar to your st2 as far as lift (I haven't sat down to look as stage 2 cams seem to be kinda rare these days anyway) I'm guessing springs are an absolute necessity? Iirc intense site says in the hairy edge of stock heads or somethin similar but hell the is4 was fine with modded retainers and springs.

But to my point as usual I'm trying to avoid the double roller and balance shaft delete when I do this and may have to have this cam reground and that's gonna shrink the base circle I would guess. Measuring pushrods will be a necessity I'm sure. But you guys think I could get away with small enough springs like Ls6s or 105 comps rather than my 136s to try and save my oe timing chain? I hate the bullshit with spacing the front cover out and having to have a gear chamfered and all that so I'd like to keep it as simple as possible and maybe even keep the balance shaft functional if that's possible as well?
 

Mr_Roboto

Doing the jobs nobody wants to
TCG Premium
Feb 4, 2012
25,640
30,504
Nashotah, Wisconsin (AKA not Illinois)
I'm of the opinion measuring valve train isn't a bad thing. Then again I had a wonky experience with my 383 and being able to rev it/bent push rods so that may have something to do with it too. The check push rod is about 50 bucks.

If you do a regrind different pushrods are almost certainly a requirement and I'd think measuring also nearly a requirement. When you bump lift with a regrind you're removing material from the base circle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

v6buicks

TCG Elite Member
TCG Premium
Oct 22, 2018
6,258
15,450
Franklin, IN
Real Name
Jon
Either stay with stock cam or get the double roller. Private message Jason Farnsworth and send him your timing set. He'll fix it.

That or don't even worry about the machining of it worries you. The goofy spacing is annoying but it's also been done a billion times with the thin pump cover and thicker gasket.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sktchy

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,489
11,683
That or don't even worry about the machining of it worries you. The goofy spacing is annoying but it's also been done a billion times with the thin pump cover and thicker gasket.
I mean I guess I never really did have valvetrain issues when I had all of that in with the is4 cam so idk why I'm so against it.

The check push rod is about 50 bucks.
Oh it'll definitely need measured if it has to be reworked but supposedly it should polish out. For the money I paid for it I'm not really complaining too much if I can get it fixed.

And cutting a pushrod in half and using a piece of fuel line between the two pieces then measuring that is free 99 ?
 

sktchy

⚠️🫠
TCG Premium
Jul 27, 2021
7,489
11,683
Get a vs cam and run a stock timing set with 105's or ls6 springs and retainers.

I ran an xp cam for a long time with 130# springs on a stock timing set.
This is kind of what I was thinking but with the is2 cam. If intense says it works with stock heads that leads me to believe that also infers to stock spring rates where it doesn't mention springs til stage 3. Of course I could always be wrong in my thinking too. Don't really have plans of spinning it to 6500 so I wouldn't think float would be an issue so much as changing the geometry of things could be
 

GTPpower

TCG Elite Member
Jun 5, 2012
6,294
9,609
Nebraska
This is kind of what I was thinking but with the is2 cam. If intense says it works with stock heads that leads me to believe that also infers to stock spring rates where it doesn't mention springs til stage 3. Of course I could always be wrong in my thinking too. Don't really have plans of spinning it to 6500 so I wouldn't think float would be an issue so much as changing the geometry of things could be
You should have heavier valve springs with a stock cam and turbo.
 

Turbocharged400sbc

3800 & 4T80E > ALL
TCG Premium
Jun 16, 2007
32,538
15,846
hangover park IL
105's have a smaller wire diameter than factory Springs. You should be able to find them that way with a caliper.

When the company's talk about stockheads or not....is typically referring to having to cut down. The valve guides for the increased lift clearance to the retainer and keepers from the valve seal.

Our valves and our valve spring installed height are shorter than the l s geometry, i'm a tree
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 90 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant. Consider starting a new thread to get fresh replies.

Thread Info