3800 I have a lot of cam swap questions
- Thread starter v6buicks
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It's interesting even when it's brought up among 3800 guys. It can range from ZZP=god to "I bought a ZZP sticker one time and it ripped right off when I hit a tree at 50 mph. NEVER SHOP THERE!"
Overall I have very mixed feelings, but I don't want to beat a dead horse. I avoid them, but some of their stuff is nice and convenient.
I think they have their shining points in specialty stuff such as the equalizer downpipe but they also hoof alot of rebranded stuff like most parts places and at the end of the day that's probably where they catch the most hell and rightfully so.
Bottom line is quality in just about everything has gone downhill these days and if it's not oem your probably gonna have to spend alot of money or your gonna see some issues here and there no matter what it is.
Bottom line is quality in just about everything has gone downhill these days and if it's not oem your probably gonna have to spend alot of money or your gonna see some issues here and there no matter what it is.
I'm still butthurt that they didn't refund my pulley puller rental fee back when I pulley swapped my first car. It was probably 2005, I used their puller, then mailed it back for the refund. They said they never got it and kept my money.
I did some googling and found a few solid conversations but very few that were new enough to bring the LS7 quality problems into play. It sounds like the GMPP LS7 "Caddy" lifters are the ones to get now. They're made of stronger materials that won't fly apart, the valving is improved over the OE LS7 parts (the good ones), and the preload has a tolerance is .050 -.100 according to BTR. This should make the installation a lot easier some some of the other high performance options. Given the very reasonable price for a set of 16, I'm probably going to go this route. Any objections?
I bet you and a couple other 3800 people could make it happen with a stock ECM. Lol
What a coincidence that you brought that up. Yesterday, I found some old forum posts which show somebody correcting this issue. https://www.grandprixforums.com/members-rides/89862-00-impala-ls-5-speed-and-supercharged-3.html
I'm thinking this would be a good opportunity to buy a mini-lathe.
Yeah the Ozzy engines and crankshaft were blue printed and dimensioned in metric and the tolerance differences between the two mean that the Australian crank has a larger fill it radius 10 mm versus 380. As well as the shoulder diameter being larger and the role Master gears pocket being machined with a cutting tool with too large of a radius that does not have a nice Square bottom shoulder to the boar. Because of this we have to modify them
Good info then for sure, I'll be sure to send mine off once it arrives then. Sounds like I won't have to use the machined oil pump cover too so that's a win in my book. My bolts would not come loose when I tried to take them off last time.
What is going on in that thread where they're machining the cam gear?
What is going on in that thread where they're machining the cam gear?
My understanding is that the gears are aligned and will actually work fine without machining. However, it requires the thin cover and thick gaskets. If you only machine the crank gear chamfer, your chain will wear out quickly from the gears being misaligned. The cam gear has to be shaved down in order to be at the same distance from the block as the crank gear again. This is where I get a little weary about this mod. This set is proven to work fine despite the crappy machining. Fixing it correctly is worth the effort, but fixing it wrong can cost you an engine.Good info then for sure, I'll be sure to send mine off once it arrives then. Sounds like I won't have to use the machined oil pump cover too so that's a win in my book. My bolts would not come loose when I tried to take them off last time.
What is going on in that thread where they're machining the cam gear?
Gotcha, that was what I had suspected but wanted to be sure. Tough call to make then...
What's the consensus on the valve stem seals? I've read that the viton seals can give you 0.020" more lift clearance but ZZP is claiming their felpro-looking seals with their retainers can net 0.050" more clearance. Is all of that added clearance from ZZP in the retainer or their felpro-looking seals?
Do the viton seals give more clearance than the felpros?
What's the consensus on the valve stem seals? I've read that the viton seals can give you 0.020" more lift clearance but ZZP is claiming their felpro-looking seals with their retainers can net 0.050" more clearance. Is all of that added clearance from ZZP in the retainer or their felpro-looking seals?
Do the viton seals give more clearance than the felpros?
sorry on the voice to text monstrosity above but really as with any engine thing need to be checked , i always check stack heights, chains can compensate and stretch but running out of plane reduces it strength and lifespan.
but thankfully because of contacts with the old EV6 guys down under they had pointed out that the US cams had different dimensions from the C.O.M.E. racing cams
i got to play with both JP and RM before RM bought JP and started using their 2 piece crank design/parts with the RM iwis chain
after cuting a square edge to the crank sprocket pocket and enlarging the chamfer to the OE gear to fit our radius most measure to .026-.031 off the backside of the cam gear to bring it in line
i put the chain on a flat plate and grind down the pins that are proud of the rest were they are swaged esp on the oil pump side.
i use stock covers and make sure the bolts are flush or below the plate, one OE timing gasket and 1 felpro blue silicone over steel core gasket and end up with .050ish between the pins and the cover with the chain sittin gon the teeth over towards the pump and crank at full frontal crank endplay.
i probably dont need the steel gasket but its .010 ish iirc....
never had an issue with the cam magnet/sensor but iirc someone on here did
but thankfully because of contacts with the old EV6 guys down under they had pointed out that the US cams had different dimensions from the C.O.M.E. racing cams
i got to play with both JP and RM before RM bought JP and started using their 2 piece crank design/parts with the RM iwis chain
after cuting a square edge to the crank sprocket pocket and enlarging the chamfer to the OE gear to fit our radius most measure to .026-.031 off the backside of the cam gear to bring it in line
i put the chain on a flat plate and grind down the pins that are proud of the rest were they are swaged esp on the oil pump side.
i use stock covers and make sure the bolts are flush or below the plate, one OE timing gasket and 1 felpro blue silicone over steel core gasket and end up with .050ish between the pins and the cover with the chain sittin gon the teeth over towards the pump and crank at full frontal crank endplay.
i probably dont need the steel gasket but its .010 ish iirc....
never had an issue with the cam magnet/sensor but iirc someone on here did
the solid metal skirt "small" seals do give you a hair more room, but install is a bit finickyier and damage is easier. i swear the application is for a sbf but dont hold me to that.
the regulare square body seals with the two spring steel clamps arre the OE style and easy to install and quite durable.
just getting the ground retainers would be a good option, you gotta look at how close to the limit of binding it up. with a good bit of lifter preload travel that we have id be leary of going under 0.060 clearance.
it aint rocket surgery
the regulare square body seals with the two spring steel clamps arre the OE style and easy to install and quite durable.
just getting the ground retainers would be a good option, you gotta look at how close to the limit of binding it up. with a good bit of lifter preload travel that we have id be leary of going under 0.060 clearance.
it aint rocket surgery
Bumping this thread in hopes of lighting a fire under
v6buicks to get that cam put in but I do have my own questions and thoughts as well.
First off do any of you guys have any idea what the base circle would be on the stock cam? I ask because after doing some digging into pushrod length I came across specs from intense saying the big cams take up to a 7.40 pushrod?
Secondly what lengths are you guys with cams actually running?
I know I should just get a length checker and go about things the right way but the noise in my valve cover is strangely similar to what I had when using the 7.00 pushrods on the stock modified 1.9 rockers and I'm assuming as usual I'm short sticking things here. My gut feeling says to throw the stocks back in and see if it clears up but I don't really want to have to screw with it twice if I'm still going to be way off.
At first I got to thinking how would it need longer ones with more lift but then it hit me that if the base circle is smaller that that's where the slack is probably coming into play.
v6buicks to get that cam put in but I do have my own questions and thoughts as well. First off do any of you guys have any idea what the base circle would be on the stock cam? I ask because after doing some digging into pushrod length I came across specs from intense saying the big cams take up to a 7.40 pushrod?
Secondly what lengths are you guys with cams actually running?
I know I should just get a length checker and go about things the right way but the noise in my valve cover is strangely similar to what I had when using the 7.00 pushrods on the stock modified 1.9 rockers and I'm assuming as usual I'm short sticking things here. My gut feeling says to throw the stocks back in and see if it clears up but I don't really want to have to screw with it twice if I'm still going to be way off.
At first I got to thinking how would it need longer ones with more lift but then it hit me that if the base circle is smaller that that's where the slack is probably coming into play.
Lots of cams have the same base circle as stock. Zzp's XP for instance does. The xpz I'm running does not. I'm running 7.38" rods, but my rockers add a lot to that.
It's really best just to measure. The adjustable pushrod is cheap, but the 8" caliper to measure it cost me like $30.
It's really best just to measure. The adjustable pushrod is cheap, but the 8" caliper to measure it cost me like $30.
Ended up with three different lengths on the Riviera because of vsr on the IS4 heads. The MLS gaskets and the is4 camshaft made measuring a requirement to get the yella terras to sit right
Mines nothing special like that just stock rockers with zzp ls7 lifters. I've got half a mind to just throw stocks back in and see what happens where it seems to only be passenger side rattling. Course there could be somethin else goin on once I dig into it as well.
The thing that really gets me is even tho it did have a little noticeable lope to it at first, when the air fuel is dialed in and the exhaust is on you can hardly tell its even been changed with idle in the high 800 to 900 rpm range. I suppose if I'd drop it down I might be able to get that chop that I hear other cars have but I'm not real sure I mind it being tamer. Does seem to move a bit more air than it used to though.
The thing that really gets me is even tho it did have a little noticeable lope to it at first, when the air fuel is dialed in and the exhaust is on you can hardly tell its even been changed with idle in the high 800 to 900 rpm range. I suppose if I'd drop it down I might be able to get that chop that I hear other cars have but I'm not real sure I mind it being tamer. Does seem to move a bit more air than it used to though.
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