Georgia just criminalized Abortion

Mook

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On Tuesday, Georgia Republican Gov. Brian Kemp signed a “fetal heartbeat” bill that seeks to outlaw abortion after about six weeks. The measure, HB 481, is the most extreme abortion ban in the country—not just because it would impose severe limitations on women’s reproductive rights, but also because it would subject women who get illegal abortions to life imprisonment and the death penalty.

The primary purpose of HB 481 is to prohibit doctors from terminating any pregnancy after they can detect “embryonic or fetal cardiac activity,” which typically occurs at six weeks’ gestation. But the bill does far more than that. In one sweeping provision, it declares that “unborn children are a class of living, distinct person” that deserves “full legal recognition.” Thus, Georgia law must “recognize unborn children as natural persons”—not just for the purposes of abortion, but as a legal rule.

This radical revision of Georgia law is quite deliberate: The bill confirms that fetuses “shall be included in population based determinations” from now on, because they are legally humans, and residents of the state. But it is not clear whether the bill’s drafters contemplated the more dramatic consequences of granting legal personhood to fetuses.

For instance, as Georgia appellate attorney Andrew Fleischman has pointed out, the moment this bill takes effect on Jan. 1, 2020, the state will be illegally holding thousands of citizens in jail without bond. That’s because, under HB 481, pregnant inmates’ fetuses have independent rights—including the right to due process. Can a juvenile attorney represent an inmate’s fetus and demand its release? If not, why? It is an egregious due process violation to punish one human for the crimes of another. If an inmate’s fetus is a human, how can Georgia lawfully detain it for a crime it did not commit?
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/hb-481-georgia-law-criminalizes-abortion-subjects-women-to-life-in-prison.html

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/07/health/georgia-abortion-bill/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-slams-heartbeat-bill

https://twitter.com/KHOU/status/1126170954483347462
 

Mook

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^ Twitter embed wont load (or it randomly will)

'Heartbeat Bill' officially becomes Georgia abortion law | The new law bans abortions once a fetal heartbeat can be detected. That can be as early as six weeks, before many women know they're pregnant.
 

Ryan02Stang

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It was bound to happen. When the left is passing laws that allow abortion up until the day a baby is born...the extreme right is going to swing the other way and ban them.

While I personally don't accept abortion, I don't think the law should get involved like this. However I also feel like there does need to be a line drawn, and allowing late term abortions is too far for me and seems inhumane.
 

MrDragster1970

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It's a start.
Of course the POS liberals will fight the right to murder a child that is an inconvenience for all eternity!!!
Of course what would you expect from a group of losers that think murdering a human being is a women's health care right???

.
 

Mr_Roboto

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This will be an endless battle. We will get to see people in states that allow swinging way to the other extreme demanding that the federal government over ride the decision and leave their decisions alone.

It should be an interesting experiment in federalism. They want to take that new, more conservative supreme court out for a test drive.
 

ZXMustang

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Abortions should only be legal for medical emergencies, when the mother's life is in danger.

In terms of rape/incest, I dont believe it should be legal. The mother should be able to have the child adopted easily if they do not want to keep and raise the baby.

Later term abortion is a gray area, where a case can be made for its existence. Extreme cases of malformed fetuses or again medical emergencies for the mother are about all you can justify here. And even in those extreme cases, it would be very expensive and never covered by anyone's health insurance. So late term is rare anyway. Especially full term abortions. They are not something little suzy could ever afford because "she doesnt want to be a mom".
 

ZXMustang

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Furthermore, there are only like 3 doctors left in the US that are performing late terms, and they are elderly. So it wont take long for them to retire/die off and that to fix itself. This is so much deeper of a conversation than just "killing babies".
 

blakbearddelite

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My view on abortion has nothing to do with religion, it's more of a moral thing. There are only a couple of extreme cases where it should be a choice.

If someone is pregnant, they should be required to take it full term and then put the child up for adoption. It sickens me that people can murder someone because the child's life is inconvenient for them. Though I understand some people would find other ways to abort a fetus, but that should carry a hefty penalty. Anyway, that's my .02 on it. An unplanned baby shouldn't pay the price for having a sloot mom.
 

ZXMustang

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My view on abortion has nothing to do with religion, it's more of a moral thing. There are only a couple of extreme cases where it should be a choice.

If someone is pregnant, they should be required to take it full term and then put the child up for adoption. It sickens me that people can murder someone because the child's life is inconvenient for them. Though I understand some people would find other ways to abort a fetus, but that should carry a hefty penalty. Anyway, that's my .02 on it. An unplanned baby shouldn't pay the price for having a sloot mom.
100%. If the "sloot" mom takes matters into her own hands because she cant get a legal abortion, it would be murder on the flip side for her. She'd go to jail as if she killed a birthed human.

No healthy baby should ever be aborted. There is a world of happy families out there that would gladly take care and lovingly raise an adopted baby.
 

Intel

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It was bound to happen. When the left is passing laws that allow abortion up until the day a baby is born...the extreme right is going to swing the other way and ban them.

While I personally don't accept abortion, I don't think the law should get involved like this. However I also feel like there does need to be a line drawn, and allowing late term abortions is too far for me and seems inhumane.
Late term is like 1.3 percent and used in the case of when they find a fatal condition of the fetus or it poses a huge risk to the health or life of the mother. I agree with those cases. If it isn't those cases then it shouldn't be allowed for late term and that is how the law is for these sort of instances in 19 states. It isn't a get out of jail free cards super late in the game. Trump and Pence are just throwing it around like it is.
 

sickmint79

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It was bound to happen. When the left is passing laws that allow abortion up until the day a baby is born...
seems like you are taking an awful lot of liberty with this claim
Did New York Pass a Bill Legalizing Abortions Up to Birth?


the extreme right is going to swing the other way and ban them.

While I personally don't accept abortion, I don't think the law should get involved like this. However I also feel like there does need to be a line drawn, and allowing late term abortions is too far for me and seems inhumane.
the 'extreme right' is not doing this as a reaction, to something which barely even changed, this has always been their goal.

meanwhile you will have republicans like old man ranty bitching about any aid going to some poor mother, and the same republicans who say of course banning guns doesn't uninvent them just stick their heads in the sand about what would happen if abortions are truly banned, that they wouldn't get uninvented either - just done in shitty unsafe black markets, back alleys, or at home with coat hangers.
 

BADAZZTEALCOBRA

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seems like you are taking an awful lot of liberty with this claim.

No, I believe he is taking more issue with the Governor or whoever was from Virginia saying they would allow them up to the second they are born even in instance of mental stress of the mother, or that alive born abortions could be made comfortable and then killed.


I'm pro-choice myself, but some of these are completely ridiculous and steering me more towards pro-life because theyre getting so nuts on the left.
 

Ryan02Stang

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Because children are always easily adopted :picard:
There are waiting lists to adopt a new born baby in the USA. The amount of parents seeking a new born baby is more than the number of new born babies in the USA available for adoption. The stigma around adoption problems stems from the number of children waiting for adoption who are not new born babies. So if many of these children were allowed to live to be adopted, instead of being aborted, chances are they could find a good home.

The other problem is, it costs between $10k and $50k to adopt a baby in the USA, with ~$30k seeming like the most likely cost. All depends on what agency you go through, how selective you want to be, etc.

My wife and I have explored adopting a new born, and it isn't easy and it isn't cheap...partially because there just aren't that many babies available. So the argument of adoption being difficult really doesn't apply well to children who are aborted.
 

BADAZZTEALCOBRA

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The other problem is, it costs between $10k and $50k to adopt a baby in the USA, with ~$30k seeming like the most likely cost. All depends on what agency you go through, how selective you want to be, etc.

My wife and I have explored adopting a new born, and it isn't easy and it isn't cheap...partially because there just aren't that many babies available. So the argument of adoption being difficult really doesn't apply well to children who are aborted.

I would also agree that they need to find a way to make adoptions more affordable. I'm sure there are a TON of families who would make great homes but can't afford $30k to adopt.
 

radioguy6

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personally could not imagine aborting a healthy baby. I tend to lean pro choice on the subject, because after all its your individual choice, not mine. I just don't want my tax dollars paying for your mistake. The line needs to be drawn somewhere, this is a bit extreme and what stops the mother from aborting outside Georgia.
 

Blownbyyou

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I would also agree that they need to find a way to make adoptions more affordable. I'm sure there are a TON of families who would make great homes but can't afford $30k to adopt.
Thats the true messed up part... should cost no more than 5k in my opinion including lawyer fees and home visits...

Arent the adopters doing the state a huge ass favor by taking the cost of raising a child off of there hands? Not only short term, but also long term (finding fosters etc)
 

boostedguy05

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I would also agree that they need to find a way to make adoptions more affordable. I'm sure there are a TON of families who would make great homes but can't afford $30k to adopt.
agree. but also add in, no picking out a kid. you want a baby, here is a baby. not here are 50 babies to choose from. if you want wan bad enough it should not matter what they look like as an infant.


wifes aunt and uncle couldn't have kids. blood uncle. aunt had medical issues. so they adopted 1 boy here, and 1 girl from China (i think), the girl cost them a TON of money.
 

Ryan02Stang

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seems like you are taking an awful lot of liberty with this claim
Did New York Pass a Bill Legalizing Abortions Up to Birth?
The governor of Virginia said he is ok with babies being born during botched abortions, and leaving it up to the mother to decide to keep the baby alive or not. Thats deranged dude!

the 'extreme right' is not doing this as a reaction, to something which barely even changed, this has always been their goal.

meanwhile you will have republicans like old man ranty bitching about any aid going to some poor mother, and the same republicans who say of course banning guns doesn't uninvent them just stick their heads in the sand about what would happen if abortions are truly banned, that they wouldn't get uninvented either - just done in shitty unsafe black markets, back alleys, or at home with coat hangers.
This is why I said I don't think the law should get involved in abortion laws, outside of limiting late term abortions.
 

Ryan02Stang

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Late term is like 1.3 percent and used in the case of when they find a fatal condition of the fetus or it poses a huge risk to the health or life of the mother. I agree with those cases. If it isn't those cases then it shouldn't be allowed for late term and that is how the law is for these sort of instances in 19 states. It isn't a get out of jail free cards super late in the game. Trump and Pence are just throwing it around like it is.
What source says late term abortions are only used in the case of when they find a fatal condition with the fetus? I still don't even get it, have the child born and give them a chance, even if its a small one.

I don't get a late term abortion when threatening the mother as an excuse. If the mother was only concerned with her health, I don't understand how an abortion in the third trimester would be any different then having the child taken out alive via C-section. The mother has a choice to kill or birth a child that is able to live on their own at that point.
 

Ryan02Stang

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Where is this statistic from?
It takes 2-7 years to adopt a new born baby. We were told 2-3 years by the agencies my wife talked to. There are no national stats on the number of people that want a newborn baby, but most agree the number is between 1 and 2 million couples in the USA are waiting to adopt a new born baby.

FAQs | National Adoption Center

The wait is typically between two and seven years for a healthy infant.
 

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