Fuel System - Send it or enlarge it?

[v6buicks]

My fuel system in my '02 Camaro is adequate as of right now, but I'm about to the point where I can justify more power. I started buying cam swap parts a long time ago, but it didn't dawn on me until recently that I disregarded the fuel system. I have 80# injectors, so I think those will be fine. I also have an AEM 340 with a home made hot wire. That's it. The fuel sender bucket, lines, rail, and regulator are all stock.

I know nothing about BSFC. In fact, I had to google it, but this chart does seem to hint that my goal of 600hp is very possible with my pump. Then again these would have to be crank numbers. Does anybody know if there are restrictions or shortcomings in any of my fuel system parts once I start making over 500 hp?

Click to read more...

 

[JST_A_3800]

if you are running gas it will likely be fine. I crested 600whp at like 85% duty cycle with a walbro450 and 95s. e85 would be a very different story.

 

[v6buicks]

if you are running gas it will likely be fine. I crested 600whp at like 85% duty cycle with a walbro450 and 95s. e85 would be a very different story.

I'm on E85. New pump, lines and regulator when I do the cam swap?

 

[GTPpower]

80's are pretty tapped out at 500whp (if that) on e85. I would go bigger if you can. A walbro 450 will outflow the stock regulator sometimes, so keep that in mind. Some people are able to use the stock regulator though. People have made like 700 hp on stock lines, so I don't think it's really worth it to upgrade those unless you want to keep everything consistent with AN fittings from upgraded rails and fuel tank.

 

[v6buicks]

80's are pretty tapped out at 500whp (if that) on e85. I would go bigger if you can. A walbro 450 will outflow the stock regulator sometimes, so keep that in mind. Some people are able to use the stock regulator though. People have made like 700 hp on stock lines, so I don't think it's really worth it to upgrade those unless you want to keep everything consistent with AN fittings from upgraded rails and fuel tank.

If I did a pump I'm probably doing lines. Mine are kinda rusty. Shocker. Lol. I'd also prefer to get something from racetronix so that it's drop in and I'm not always wondering if I did it right. At that point, I feel like a regulator is a good thing, but I've never adjusted one before.

 

[GTPpower]

Yeah, I would probably do lines in your situation as well. How much power do you think you want?

 

[v6buicks]

Yeah, I would probably do lines in your situation as well. How much power do you think you want?

Long answer:
I don't really care. I really want to stuff this ST5 cam in with head studs and 150# springs. From there it will be what it is, but if there are some easy things I can change before the dyno to get the most of it, that would be great to know ahead of time. What I do know for sure is that I won't be happy with anything that starts with a 4.

Short answer:
I want 600. Lol

 

[GTPpower]

What turbo do you have? Sorry, I forget.

 

[v6buicks]

What turbo do you have? Sorry, I forget.

It's all good. Idk either. Lol Here's a copy/paste from my notes. It's a Chinese thing.

.68A/R P-trim turbine housing, 67/90mm compressor wheel, 74.1/64.56mm turbine wheel

 

[JST_A_3800]

It's all good. Idk either. Lol Here's a copy/paste from my notes. It's a Chinese thing.

.68A/R P-trim turbine housing, 67/90mm compressor wheel, 74.1/64.56mm turbine wheel

ripoff of a old school 6765...26-27psi on a st5 should crest 600 no problem

 

[v6buicks]

ripoff of a old school 6765...26-27psi on a st5 should crest 600 no problem

Damn that's a lot of boost. I look forward to that. haha At the same time, I'm not opposed to opening things up a bit if I find a good deal on used ported or aluminum heads. I'm not opposed to doing my own gasket matching, but forget porting heads on my own.

Too bad about the 80s. I thought those would be my injectors for the long haul, but I keep forgetting how much more E85 needs to flow. Are 160s good enough?

 

[v6buicks]

Wow... big sad. Apparently Racetronix discontinued their drop-in pump/sender assemblies. That sucks.

There are other options though. I just don't like the lack of venturi and or the prices.

Chrs1313 Dual 450 Fuel Pump Setup Fbody 99-02 drop in-tank

Full anodized aluminum and stainless hardware. Capable of supporting 1200rwhp on e85, -8AN or -6AN high flow fittings for the feed and return (-8 teflon lines are recommended for feed and return). Additional port in center machined which can be plugged, used as vent, or other user preference...

www.speedinc.com

1999-2002 F-Body Dual Pump Fuel System-FS-10029

www.squashperformance.com

 

[v6buicks]

And yet.... I'm still leaning toward Racetronix. It looks like a dual pump is my only option for this much power on E, and the drop-in stuff is not truly drop-in or at all cheap. I know that Racetronix stuff is quality with awesome instructions, so I'll probably just stick with what I know.

DIY Dual Pump Kit, GM F99 (DIYDPK-F99): Dual Pump Kits (D-I-Y) | Racetronix

Purchase DIY Dual Pump Kit, GM F99 or shop other Dual Pump Kits (D-I-Y) and Racetronix products from Racetronix.

www.racetronix.biz

Sort of a side note, but on topic. I was about to ask for opinions on line size, and then it hit me. I bought Dan Josts GN swap stuff. I bet that his custom fuel rails would look killer and fit fine on my Camaro intake. In that case, I'd have -6 AN supply and return bungs already there. Best of all, I already paid for it.

Edit:
Okay, new favorite.

99-02 Camaro/Firebird Custom High Performance Dual In-Tank Fuel Pump Assembly

99-02 Camaro or Firebird Custom High Performance Dual In-Tank Fuel Pump Assembly

www.hawksmotorsports.com

Why would they ask which regulator I'm using as a drop-down option though? I might have to ask them. Either way, this would make me feel better than any DIY solution I come up with. Racetronix seems pretty adamant that their kit is not for the average installer, and I can't find any tutorials online. This cam swap rabbit hole just got a lot bigger.

 

[v6buicks]

I think I've talked myself out of this rabbit hole. My injectors and pump are still really new and I'm only running the 80s at about 50% DC right now which is plenty of head room to destroy a 10-bolt with ease.

The cam swap is already going to be a big challenge for me and adding in a bunch of extra parts will suck for both my wallet and my ego. I'd rather save the money for fuel system stuff and use it toward a rear end. Maybe after the cam tune I'll do fuel system upgrades and ported heads or a name brand turbo.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

when it spun the slicks at 28psi/105mph the TR was nearing 1k at the crank and the 127lbhr injectors were at 85%+ iirc

i spent so much time tearing through that datalog and comparing it to the 11.33 at 129.73 pass.....

....and wishing kevin wasnt such a pussy off the line with 2.1+ 60' times and we'd have a 10 second slip instead of just 12 dead transaxles and an 11.33

 

[GTPpower]

You can hammer it off the line now that it's yours!

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

im preserving it for posterity

 

[1quick]

My fuel system in my '02 Camaro is adequate as of right now, but I'm about to the point where I can justify more power. I started buying cam swap parts a long time ago, but it didn't dawn on me until recently that I disregarded the fuel system. I have 80# injectors, so I think those will be fine. I also have an AEM 340 with a home made hot wire. That's it. The fuel sender bucket, lines, rail, and regulator are all stock.

I know nothing about BSFC. In fact, I had to google it, but this chart does seem to hint that my goal of 600hp is very possible with my pump. Then again these would have to be crank numbers. Does anybody know if there are restrictions or shortcomings in any of my fuel system parts once I start making over 500 hp?
View attachment 112699

I ran tha aem 340 pump back in the day I ran out of pump at 519whp on e85, I’d consider one of the hellcat pumps they look like a walbro450 but flow 525lph if I remember right one of those should be able to do 600whp on e85 I’d consider bosh 105lb injectors also, I was using 2 of the 525’s in my mustang no problem making north of 800

 

[v6buicks]

I ran tha aem 340 pump back in the day I ran out of pump at 519whp on e85, I’d consider one of the hellcat pumps they look like a walbro450 but flow 525lph if I remember right one of those should be able to do 600whp on e85 I’d consider bosh 105lb injectors also, I was using 2 of the 525’s in my mustang no problem making north of 800

Damn. Well that's good to know now rather than later. I can pretend like I'd be happy with 500whp, but the reality is that I'll be a bit disappointed if I don't at least hit 550.

Ideas keep brewing. Given 1quick's experiences, I'll definitely do a pump. I'd feel better getting rid of my pump for something that's drop in anyway. I'm not a big fan of the way I did my sender mods. It sounds like the 80s might not make it to 600, but have a bit more head room than the pump.

Something I've talked about since the day I got my Aeroforce gauge was installing a fuel pressure sensor. I think now is a great time to actually go through with that. I'd like to monitor it both in Aeroforce and HP if possible. I'm not sure if the two will get along splitting a signal though. Anybody had luck with this?

 

[v6buicks]

After talking with Ktj100 on Facebook it seems like I should be able to plug a fuel pressure sensor into both the Pro Link and the gauge as long as the ground references are tied together....

That's exactly the problem I had with my friggen wideband. The difference here is that the Aeroforce gauge is grounded via DLC. I might just have to wing it and hope that there isn't any funny business between the ECM and my ground bar. There shouldn't be, but I've seen some stuff n things.

I also get to revisit this beautiful "diagram" I made for when I was building the instrumentation harness. At least I planned ahead and put the "OPEN" input wire up by the aeroforce gauge where I somehow knew that I was going to want it. Tapping into my pretty new gauge harness will be as easy and unplugging one connector and adding a pin. to it.

I'll order the parts when I get home from my trip. I think it will be a good idea to get used to seeing my fuel pressure numbers in relation to boost this summer. Then when I start doing more power upgrades I'll know when I need a pump or regulator.

 

[Ktj100]

My buddy and I are making a system that constantly monitors fuel pressure compared to boost automatically. It'll sound an alarm if fuel pressure is dropping for any reason.

 

[v6buicks]

My buddy and I are making a system that constantly monitors fuel pressure compared to boost automatically. It'll sound an alarm if fuel pressure is dropping for any reason.

That's nifty! So would it be a deal where your target is just 0 all the time?

 

[Ktj100]

Basically it would get a baseline difference between the fuel pressure and manifold pressure on startup and then it would watch to make sure that that difference is constant during boost.