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Elon Musk says LIDAR is NOT the future

Flyn

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Tesla doesn't use LIDAR. Many of his competitors do.

“Lidar is a fool’s errand,” Elon Musk said. “Anyone relying on lidar is doomed. Doomed! [They are] expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices. Like, one appendix is bad, well now you have a whole bunch of them, it’s ridiculous, you’ll see.”
The company today detailed its current generation self-driving computer that works with all existing Tesla vehicles. Once the software is ready, it will enable all Teslas to drive autonomously with their existing sensor set — at least that’s what the company says — and that sensor set doesn’t include lidar. Instead, the sensors inside Tesla vehicles lean on a neural network that’s trained by data collected by all Tesla vehicles.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/anyone-relying-on-lidar-is-doomed-elon-musk-says/
 

tinfoilhat

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LIDAR has a lot of environmental issues that can effect its reliability so I could see why.
 

Mike K

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This is Tesla's secret weapon and it's why they're leap years ahead of everyone else. Imagine Waymo and I'm going to guess they have what, 500 cars? They run in geofenced areas. They collect a very limited amount of data.

Then you have Teslas. There are something like a million cars now with hardware 2 autopilot and they've been running in shadow mode for two years now. What's shadow mode? Shadow mode is where the car is constantly pretending like it's driving even when autopilot is off. Even when you're driving. It's watching you and it's saying "I'd do x" but then it noticed you do "y". And it uploads this to Tesla. MILLIONS of cars doing this, millions of miles a year. And as they learn, they continue to learn faster, and the fleet gets larger, and they learn even faster.

People like to focus on the trivial stuff and they don't see how Tesla is quietly dominating several up and coming industries. Solar, power storage, autonomous driving...

Remember when everyone said that the moment Tesla proved that people would want electric cars that the big automotive companies would come and eat their lunch? How's that working out? Ford: nothing. GM: almost nothing. Chrysler: Nothing. Toyota: head in the sand and says hybrid is the future. The Tesla killers all suck too. The Jaguar F-Pace has mediocre range. The Audi E-Tron has almost laughable range. And this is their BEST shot!

Now extrapolate that inability to adapt and apply it to something that nobody saw coming: self driving. What would anyone need to do to catch up with Tesla at this point? Basically get a fleet of a million cars on the road, already equipped with a full suite of sensors to read the road and upload data. And they'd need to be running passively for years. GOOD. LUCK. :rofl:
 

MikeyLikesIt

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This is where I have a problem with Tesla. I'm a car guy like everyone here and I am into the electric cars as well. When people are excited to talk about Tesla's, they fall into two camps.

1. The Prius owner who wants to upgrade and save the world from green house gases.
2. The enthusiast who see's this as the future, into the tech, wants to go fast, etc.

I never once had someone tell me they want a Tesla because it drives itself. If I bought one today, I would option out of any auto pilot. I feel like they are focusing on something that isn't quite there yet in popularity.

There is no way in hell I'm using my future Tesla as an automated taxi while I'm sleeping.
 

tinfoilhat

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My problem is you basically give up your privacy to a private company to drive a Tesla. Love the cars and technology, hate how there is no opt-out.
 

lastls1

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This is where I have a problem with Tesla. I'm a car guy like everyone here and I am into the electric cars as well. When people are excited to talk about Tesla's, they fall into two camps.

1. The Prius owner who wants to upgrade and save the world from green house gases.
2. The enthusiast who see's this as the future, into the tech, wants to go fast, etc.

I never once had someone tell me they want a Tesla because it drives itself. If I bought one today, I would option out of any auto pilot. I feel like they are focusing on something that isn't quite there yet in popularity.

There is no way in hell I'm using my future Tesla as an automated taxi while I'm sleeping.




I said the same thing as well.... (in regards to your opting out of autopilot statement) when I first drove and ordered my car. I felt that I wanted to drive it and not have it drive me.

Fast forward to now..... my opinion has changed. For city driving and normal side roads I still drive the car, however on a road trip on a mind numbing highway? Autopilot is the absolute best thing. I ended up adding it on to my car after I got a few free trials of it.

It really does take that tiring stress out of driving, that constant concentration feeling that slowly wears you down during a trip.
 

jason05gt

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Blood on Blood

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Make the auto-pilot with an Indy driver inspired option? .

Where do I sign up?
 

sickmint79

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This is where I have a problem with Tesla. I'm a car guy like everyone here and I am into the electric cars as well. When people are excited to talk about Tesla's, they fall into two camps.

1. The Prius owner who wants to upgrade and save the world from green house gases.
2. The enthusiast who see's this as the future, into the tech, wants to go fast, etc.

I never once had someone tell me they want a Tesla because it drives itself. If I bought one today, I would option out of any auto pilot. I feel like they are focusing on something that isn't quite there yet in popularity.

There is no way in hell I'm using my future Tesla as an automated taxi while I'm sleeping.
why not? this would be my biggest draw to owning one actually. it's expensive, go work for me...

This is Tesla's secret weapon and it's why they're leap years ahead of everyone else. Imagine Waymo and I'm going to guess they have what, 500 cars? They run in geofenced areas. They collect a very limited amount of data.

Then you have Teslas. There are something like a million cars now with hardware 2 autopilot and they've been running in shadow mode for two years now. What's shadow mode? Shadow mode is where the car is constantly pretending like it's driving even when autopilot is off. Even when you're driving. It's watching you and it's saying "I'd do x" but then it noticed you do "y". And it uploads this to Tesla. MILLIONS of cars doing this, millions of miles a year. And as they learn, they continue to learn faster, and the fleet gets larger, and they learn even faster.

People like to focus on the trivial stuff and they don't see how Tesla is quietly dominating several up and coming industries. Solar, power storage, autonomous driving...

Remember when everyone said that the moment Tesla proved that people would want electric cars that the big automotive companies would come and eat their lunch? How's that working out? Ford: nothing. GM: almost nothing. Chrysler: Nothing. Toyota: head in the sand and says hybrid is the future. The Tesla killers all suck too. The Jaguar F-Pace has mediocre range. The Audi E-Tron has almost laughable range. And this is their BEST shot!

Now extrapolate that inability to adapt and apply it to something that nobody saw coming: self driving. What would anyone need to do to catch up with Tesla at this point? Basically get a fleet of a million cars on the road, already equipped with a full suite of sensors to read the road and upload data. And they'd need to be running passively for years. GOOD. LUCK. :rofl:
that's a lot of data but you don't get linearly better the more data you have, you get incrementally better and those increments diminish. so even if they have "the best" self driving capabilities, that doesn't mean someone else hasn't reached the point where they can drive and handle 90, 95, 98, 99, 99.9, 99.999% of situations etc. although i'll echo some of the above and note that i like to drive, so it would be a rare feature for me to use myself.
 

Stink Star Productions

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Here's the different levels of autonomy based on the SAE:

https://www.sae.org/news/press-room/2018/12/sae-international-releases-updated-visual-chart-for-its-“levels-of-driving-automation”-standard-for-self-driving-vehicles

I'm not sure the public is ready for Level 4/5 autonomy. Would you guys be comfortable with no pedals and steering?
I wouldn’t want a car without pedals and a wheel but for the life of me I can’t figure out why anybody wouldn’t want their car to self drive 95% of the time. As long as I still have the option to drive it whenever I want, and the car can drive all the boring times in traffic and down the highway I’m fully happy
 

N20GT

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To be fair all the data they collect is anonymized so it’s not like they know xxxx was at xxx at x time and date
Anonymized through who, it's all tracked using proprietary software and you know they have the vehicle information. Lol

That being said, you can be tracked about 10 different ways (cell phone, ipass, nav, etcetc) so I wouldn't be very worried.
 

lastls1

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Anonymized through who, it's all tracked using proprietary software and you know they have the vehicle information. Lol



That being said, you can be tracked about 10 different ways (cell phone, ipass, nav, etcetc) so I wouldn't be very worried.


Exactly..... and we have bigger problems. How many times have you been talking about something and suddenly all your ads on Facebook and shit change to that? Shits creepy as hell.
 

tinfoilhat

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Exactly..... and we have bigger problems. How many times have you been talking about something and suddenly all your ads on Facebook and shit change to that? Shits creepy as hell.
Get rid of Facebook, problem solved.
 

MikeyLikesIt

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why not? this would be my biggest draw to owning one actually. it's expensive, go work for me...
As someone who travels frequently, I've been in my share of Taxi's, Uber's and Lyft's. I don't want my 50k - 100k Tesla smelling and looking like that.
 

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