This document is UNDER CONSTRUCTION. I have a ton of info that I need to dig up from my brain, pictures, and conversations of me helping others work through their issues with their swaps. It will take a while to update to my current knowledge base of the swap.
CHOOSING YOUR 4T80e
Ratio Differences
-3.11, 3.48, 3.71 options in the 4T80e
PCM Compatibility if using the 4T65e PCM to control the 80e:
-1997-2002 PCM: pre-2000 4T80e
-2003+ PCM: 2000+ 4T80e
-1997-2002 PCMs can control 2000+ transmissions but will not allow manual 1st or manual 2nd gear commanded from the shifter: ___________ need elaboration on wiring needed for year incompatibility.
-Control of pre-2000 4T80e using a 2003+ PCM will technically work but the Pressure Control Solenoid won't last long due to the switch to a PWM signal that generates extra heat that the old solenoid is not built to handle. Need to check possibility of updating to a newer PCS during other transmission internal mods ______________
MOUNTING the 4T80:
1. TRIM ENGINE BLOCK: the engine block physically interferes with the tail of the 4T80, and needs to be trimmed so that they can be mated together. (pic by Jerry Gutierrez)
2. ADD BELL HOUSING BOLTS: the hole can be drilled in the transmission for to line up with the sensor fronts bellhousing threads in the 3800 block. (pic by Jerry Gutierrez)
-Some people recommend adding an additional connection in the back. This can be done by adding a stud to the engine block to go through the center rear bellhousing bolt hole of the 4T80.
3. RELOCATE REAR KNOCK SENSOR: per
Turbocharged400sbc it should go into a water jacket somewhere but I'm not sure why.
4. FLEX PLATE DIFFERENCE: The 4T65e uses a 3-bolt pattern while the 80e uses a 4-bolt. Available solutions are as follows:
---Drill a 4T65 flexplate with the four bolt pattern of the 4T80 torque converter
---You can purchase a torque converter through Circle D/LS4 King that is for the 4T80 but has both the three bolt pattern and the four bolt pattern
5. MODIFY SHIFT LINKAGE MOUNT: You'll need to secure the shift linkage to the transmission case. the mount needs to be precise for the shift positions to line up. Currently there are no off the shelf solutions, you'll have to custom mount it.
6. ENGINE OIL DRAIN BOLT INTERFERENCE: Drain bolt can be shortened slightly and the transmission pan lip can be slightly bent. (pic by Nick Sho)
7. UNIQUE REAR COOLER LINE FITTING: This only applies if you want to run AN lines all the way to the transmission. If you splice into the factory 4T80e cooler line, you can ignore this. If you want to use AN lines, the factory fitting in the rear of the trans by the differential housing is unique. You can weld an AN fitting to it as shown below. (pic by Nick Sho)
MOUNTING IN A W-BODY
All yellow text is W-Body specific information:
1. RACK AND PINION CLEARANCE: The engine cannot be mounted in the stock position because the 80e will interfere with the rack and pinion. The whole powertrain should be shifted forwards. If you solidly mount the powertrain to the cradle, you can stick to 1". Non-solid mounts should give a little more space. Here's a picture of Jerry Gutierrez powertrain shifted forward about an inch and a half using a modified stock engine mount. You can see the transmission barely clears the rack and pinion after being moved forward: (pic by Jerry Gutierrez)
2. SOURCING MOUNTS: all mounts need to be custom fabricated. I'll update as soon as a commercial source pops up with a mount kit.
- The 80e needs to be secured to the subframe on the driver's side.
- Secure differential housing to the subframe or to the engine block. If it gets secured to the subframe, solid mounts need to be used for diff housing to subframe AND engine block to subframe.
3. AXLES: Aurora 4.0 driver side axle, Deville passenger side axle
4. POWER STEERING LINES: Power Steering lines interfere with the differential housing. High pressure line needs to be re-routed. If making a new line, the end needs a flare.
MOUNTING IN A 2000+ H/C BODY
-everything in "all applications" section
-use your original rear and side transmission mounts with Mount brackets from a Bonneville GXP.
-custom fabricated front mount or use 2000+ Aurora V6 mount possibly???????? __________ need confirmation on this information!
-custom fabricated differential housing to engine block bracket
-Bonneville GXP or equivalent axles
H/C/G body pre-2000
-everything in "all applications" section
-front and rear transmission mounts from Oldsmobile Aurora????? __________ need confirmation on exact mounts and compatible model years! It also might be that these only work on the G-Body and not the h&c bodies.
-axles????_________
WIRING
External/Internal Range Switch Conversion
-If your original 4T65e had an external range switch, you should use an external mode switch off a pre-2000 4T80e. These can be added to any 4T80e.
2-3 Shift Solenoid Inversion
-The two three shift logic inversion can be done using wiring or using tuning. Check tuning section for the tuning option.
-A relay can be used to invert the signal to the 2-3 shift solenoid. Rather than the PCM output controlling the solenoid, the PCM output would control the relay. The relay would then send an output signal to the solenoid that is opposite of what the PCM is commanding. (Add wiring diagrams _________)
Repinning the Transmission Connector
-Obtain pinouts of your factory connector and the connector of the 4T80e you are installing. Move pins around as needed ___________ need confirmation
TUNING THE 4T65e PCM FOR THE 4T80e
2-3 Shift Solenoid Inversion
-Tiny Tuner now has capability to inverse the signal on the 2-3 shift solenoid. Some vehicles may not be supported for this feature. Use the relay solution in the wiring section otherwise.
-supported vehicle list???__________
Shift Tables
-Stock 4T65e tables work fine for partial throttle shifting and every day driving. Change at your own risk! Transmission table modifications can cause mechanical damage when driving if you don't know what you're doing.
Torque Converter Lockup
-Lock/Unlock tables need to be coordinated with the shift tables. All can be left stock.
-Some of the ratio values need to be adjusted to allow torque converter lockup at all. Due to different numbers of teeth on some of the internal sprockets (specify sprockets ___________), these need to be changed so that the engine RPM and ISS signals spit out equal values when the torque converter is locked. If the TCC slip is negative during lockup, the converter will automatically unlock, and this can cause a lot of confusion if you don't know what's going on. See the sections below for modifying these values...
Speedometer and Other Ratios
Manual Shift Control
-Cut PCS (pressure control solenoid) wires to create full time max fluid pressure
-Set up controller or shifter to manually engage 1-2 and 2-3 shift solenoid circuits and torque converter clutch solenoid circuit.
RECOMMENDED 4T80e INTERNAL MODIFICATIONS
-torque converter: Precision has single clutch and multi clutch options with the 4-bolt flex plate pattern. Circle D makes a multi clutch option with the 3-bolt pattern native to the 3800 and 4-bolt pattern used with the Northstar.
-2-3 accumulator: shim or flip the accumulator to decrease fill time. First picture is the 2-3 accumulator piston in the bore as from the factory. Second picture shows the piston flipped. Set the spring on the transmission side of the piston right before reinstalling the valve body. (pic by Travis Kuiper)
-Sonnax Boost Valve: https://www.sonnax.com/parts/2336-boost-valve-kit
-channel plate drilling
-channel plate tsb????
-relatively easy LSD upgrade... These differentials are able to be disassembled more easily than the 4T65e for modifications...
-Traction Concepts makes an LSD for the 4T80e, they have a 600 whp version and an XT/HD version for higher powered applications.
-fluid aeration and capacity increase
Thanks to everyone who helped out with providing information for this guide!
Jerry Gutierrez
Turbocharged400sbc
bs009
Nick Sho
Justin Nicholls - nichollsperformancetransmissions.com
CHOOSING YOUR 4T80e
Ratio Differences
-3.11, 3.48, 3.71 options in the 4T80e
PCM Compatibility if using the 4T65e PCM to control the 80e:
-1997-2002 PCM: pre-2000 4T80e
-2003+ PCM: 2000+ 4T80e
-1997-2002 PCMs can control 2000+ transmissions but will not allow manual 1st or manual 2nd gear commanded from the shifter: ___________ need elaboration on wiring needed for year incompatibility.
-Control of pre-2000 4T80e using a 2003+ PCM will technically work but the Pressure Control Solenoid won't last long due to the switch to a PWM signal that generates extra heat that the old solenoid is not built to handle. Need to check possibility of updating to a newer PCS during other transmission internal mods ______________
MOUNTING the 4T80:
1. TRIM ENGINE BLOCK: the engine block physically interferes with the tail of the 4T80, and needs to be trimmed so that they can be mated together. (pic by Jerry Gutierrez)
2. ADD BELL HOUSING BOLTS: the hole can be drilled in the transmission for to line up with the sensor fronts bellhousing threads in the 3800 block. (pic by Jerry Gutierrez)
-Some people recommend adding an additional connection in the back. This can be done by adding a stud to the engine block to go through the center rear bellhousing bolt hole of the 4T80.
3. RELOCATE REAR KNOCK SENSOR: per
Turbocharged400sbc it should go into a water jacket somewhere but I'm not sure why.4. FLEX PLATE DIFFERENCE: The 4T65e uses a 3-bolt pattern while the 80e uses a 4-bolt. Available solutions are as follows:
---Drill a 4T65 flexplate with the four bolt pattern of the 4T80 torque converter
---You can purchase a torque converter through Circle D/LS4 King that is for the 4T80 but has both the three bolt pattern and the four bolt pattern
5. MODIFY SHIFT LINKAGE MOUNT: You'll need to secure the shift linkage to the transmission case. the mount needs to be precise for the shift positions to line up. Currently there are no off the shelf solutions, you'll have to custom mount it.
6. ENGINE OIL DRAIN BOLT INTERFERENCE: Drain bolt can be shortened slightly and the transmission pan lip can be slightly bent. (pic by Nick Sho)
7. UNIQUE REAR COOLER LINE FITTING: This only applies if you want to run AN lines all the way to the transmission. If you splice into the factory 4T80e cooler line, you can ignore this. If you want to use AN lines, the factory fitting in the rear of the trans by the differential housing is unique. You can weld an AN fitting to it as shown below. (pic by Nick Sho)
MOUNTING IN A W-BODY
All yellow text is W-Body specific information:
1. RACK AND PINION CLEARANCE: The engine cannot be mounted in the stock position because the 80e will interfere with the rack and pinion. The whole powertrain should be shifted forwards. If you solidly mount the powertrain to the cradle, you can stick to 1". Non-solid mounts should give a little more space. Here's a picture of Jerry Gutierrez powertrain shifted forward about an inch and a half using a modified stock engine mount. You can see the transmission barely clears the rack and pinion after being moved forward: (pic by Jerry Gutierrez)
2. SOURCING MOUNTS: all mounts need to be custom fabricated. I'll update as soon as a commercial source pops up with a mount kit.
- The 80e needs to be secured to the subframe on the driver's side.
- Secure differential housing to the subframe or to the engine block. If it gets secured to the subframe, solid mounts need to be used for diff housing to subframe AND engine block to subframe.
3. AXLES: Aurora 4.0 driver side axle, Deville passenger side axle
4. POWER STEERING LINES: Power Steering lines interfere with the differential housing. High pressure line needs to be re-routed. If making a new line, the end needs a flare.
MOUNTING IN A 2000+ H/C BODY
-everything in "all applications" section
-use your original rear and side transmission mounts with Mount brackets from a Bonneville GXP.
-custom fabricated front mount or use 2000+ Aurora V6 mount possibly???????? __________ need confirmation on this information!
-custom fabricated differential housing to engine block bracket
-Bonneville GXP or equivalent axles
H/C/G body pre-2000
-everything in "all applications" section
-front and rear transmission mounts from Oldsmobile Aurora????? __________ need confirmation on exact mounts and compatible model years! It also might be that these only work on the G-Body and not the h&c bodies.
-axles????_________
WIRING
External/Internal Range Switch Conversion
-If your original 4T65e had an external range switch, you should use an external mode switch off a pre-2000 4T80e. These can be added to any 4T80e.
2-3 Shift Solenoid Inversion
-The two three shift logic inversion can be done using wiring or using tuning. Check tuning section for the tuning option.
-A relay can be used to invert the signal to the 2-3 shift solenoid. Rather than the PCM output controlling the solenoid, the PCM output would control the relay. The relay would then send an output signal to the solenoid that is opposite of what the PCM is commanding. (Add wiring diagrams _________)
Repinning the Transmission Connector
-Obtain pinouts of your factory connector and the connector of the 4T80e you are installing. Move pins around as needed ___________ need confirmation
TUNING THE 4T65e PCM FOR THE 4T80e
2-3 Shift Solenoid Inversion
-Tiny Tuner now has capability to inverse the signal on the 2-3 shift solenoid. Some vehicles may not be supported for this feature. Use the relay solution in the wiring section otherwise.
-supported vehicle list???__________
Shift Tables
-Stock 4T65e tables work fine for partial throttle shifting and every day driving. Change at your own risk! Transmission table modifications can cause mechanical damage when driving if you don't know what you're doing.
Torque Converter Lockup
-Lock/Unlock tables need to be coordinated with the shift tables. All can be left stock.
-Some of the ratio values need to be adjusted to allow torque converter lockup at all. Due to different numbers of teeth on some of the internal sprockets (specify sprockets ___________), these need to be changed so that the engine RPM and ISS signals spit out equal values when the torque converter is locked. If the TCC slip is negative during lockup, the converter will automatically unlock, and this can cause a lot of confusion if you don't know what's going on. See the sections below for modifying these values...
Speedometer and Other Ratios
Manual Shift Control
-Cut PCS (pressure control solenoid) wires to create full time max fluid pressure
-Set up controller or shifter to manually engage 1-2 and 2-3 shift solenoid circuits and torque converter clutch solenoid circuit.
RECOMMENDED 4T80e INTERNAL MODIFICATIONS
-torque converter: Precision has single clutch and multi clutch options with the 4-bolt flex plate pattern. Circle D makes a multi clutch option with the 3-bolt pattern native to the 3800 and 4-bolt pattern used with the Northstar.
-2-3 accumulator: shim or flip the accumulator to decrease fill time. First picture is the 2-3 accumulator piston in the bore as from the factory. Second picture shows the piston flipped. Set the spring on the transmission side of the piston right before reinstalling the valve body. (pic by Travis Kuiper)
-Sonnax Boost Valve: https://www.sonnax.com/parts/2336-boost-valve-kit
-channel plate drilling
-channel plate tsb????
-relatively easy LSD upgrade... These differentials are able to be disassembled more easily than the 4T65e for modifications...
-Traction Concepts makes an LSD for the 4T80e, they have a 600 whp version and an XT/HD version for higher powered applications.
-fluid aeration and capacity increase
Thanks to everyone who helped out with providing information for this guide!
Jerry Gutierrez
Turbocharged400sbc
bs009Nick Sho
Justin Nicholls - nichollsperformancetransmissions.com
