Camaro M6 options

[Yaj Yak]

oh shit [MENTION=11426]Mattstrike[/MENTION] here you go! solvin' all your prollems

https://ls1tech.com/forums/vehicle-classifieds/1859388-2002-camaro-ss-roller.html

 

[Yaj Yak]

3800 section hasn't had this much love in years

make tcg 3800 again.

thanks [MENTION=11426]Mattstrike[/MENTION].

 

[willizm]

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

So this ay6 trans, the bell housing looks removable but it’s also crazy long looking. What about just refreshing your T5?

 

[Mattstrike]

oh shit [MENTION=11426]Mattstrike[/MENTION] here you go! solvin' all your prollems

https://ls1tech.com/forums/vehicle-classifieds/1859388-2002-camaro-ss-roller.html

That car is like on the opposite corner of the lower 48... I've been down that road before. $1800 for the rolling chassis, but you don't factor in t he $700 in fuel, $200 trailer rental, $500 in hotels, and the fact that it's a week long round trip drive. Even if I hired out a delivery service, it would still run $1200 or more. So that $1800 is still $3k.

 

[Mattstrike]

So this ay6 trans, the bell housing looks removable but it’s also crazy long looking. What about just refreshing your T5?

I could, but then I'm still stuck with a turd transmission that won't last behind a stock L67.

 

[RICH17]

Wjats your plans for the car in the long run?

 

[Mattstrike]

Long run - L67, typical 3.4 pulley setup, limited slip rear end. Basically just a fun, reliable DD with a M6 that can still rake in the gas mileage on long hauls and not get left in the dust. That's it.

The attraction to the AY-6 / TR-3160 is that I can get them super low mileage used, but not abused. The idea that it's getting the LS F-body guys riled up makes me want to do it even more.

 

[RICH17]

Why blower? Isnt the throttle body adapter going to be a huge pita and the same as a turbo y-pipe?

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

You couldn’t use upgraded parts? I thought the T5 was popular in mustangs.

 

[1quick]

You can buy an adapter to adapt a 3800 to an ls bolt pattern

 

[Mattstrike]

Why buy one when I already have a CAD file to waterjet it for 1/2 the price?

Besides, I'm not using a T56. So I need the bolt pattern from the TR-3160 or AY-6.

Nope, I'm done with the T5. It's outdated. And a blower is still easier to do than a turbo, I don't need turbo power, and I already have headers.

 

[Yaj Yak]

i love this thread

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

Sounds like you’re capable of buying an ay6 and adapting it so that’s the road to take.


3800 starter is block mounted so I’d think as long as you get the depth right you could use your current flywheel and clutch

 

[Mattstrike]

Who knows stuff about the ecotec in general, and the 2.0l turbo ecotec in the '13+ ATS? Does it have the standard ecotec bolt pattern for the bellhousing? If you line up the ecotec bolt pattern dowels to the 3800 (gm metric) pattern, does the starter hole line up?

AY6 is dead, looks like just another run of the mill junk trans. TR3160 is where it's at.

This is the adapter plate I'm working on - ecotec pattern to gm metric pattern.

 

[Mattstrike]

So I found yet another option to consider

A friend of mine suggested to adapt the Nissan CD009 transmission (another cost-effective alternative to the T-56). The interesting point about this trans is it's supposed to be 1000hp capable, and can be had locally for around $550.

Ratios appear to be:
3.784
2.324
1.624
1.271
1.000
0.794

So, I did the internet research... I would need the bellhousing from the illusive Aisin auto 4sp from a 2004 3.5l Rodeo (GM 60 degree bolt pattern was used on that engine), because the Aisin in it is derivative of the AW4, which is derivative of the Toyota A340e - which is a 2JZ trans. This gives you the interesting ability to bolt the 3800 up to an A340e, and with the use of a case adapter, you can bolt a CD009 to a 2JZ ---> Therefore, you can bolt a CD009 to a 3800. This information of course is pieced together from several different builds, nobody has bolted a 3800 to anything other than the AW4 that I've been able to find, but people have put the Isuzu bellhousing on the AW4, and people have used the AW4 bellhousing with the A340e, etc...

Hurdles there are you have to cut the bell housing off the CD009 first, and the clutch plate stackup is unknown. The intended application of that adapter requires a twin disc clutch using an AW4 bell housing that fits the 2JZ engine, or a custom flywheel with a single disc clutch. The single disc clutch would be from a '95 300ZX turbo, which is a 240mm diameter friction plate. The stock Camaro friction is 246mm, so in theory I could use my 3800 flywheel and pressure plate with the 300ZX friction disc.

But as far as I can tell, I would be the guinea pig again in figuring out if the 2JZ AW4 bellhousing has a stackup that works with the 60 degree AW4 bellhousing. There is no roadmap that I've been able to find documented. So even with what appears to be a 'better' option, I'm still stuck with the possibility of having to have a custom made friction plate that has a not-stock hub.

And the cost walk is not entirely that much better, and might actually be worse if I'm stuck with using a twin disc clutch...
Trans: $550
Bell housing (have to buy an entire Rodeo trans to get it): $150 (I guess there's no demand for them lol)
CD009 to 2JZ Adapter: $500-$600
TOB for the adapter: $50-$250
Best case scenario - single clutch setup: $200
Twin disc clutch: $1500
Cost approximation to driveable: $2200-$3800


What I really need is access to these parts without having to buy them, so I can take measurements and test fit things to find the best way. I wish I could just walk into my local u-pull and find these things; that would significantly decrease the cost lol. $75 for a trans and $20 for a bell housing I think.

 

[Yaj Yak]

 

[CMNTMXR57]

If anyone can do it, it's you Matt.

 

[Mattstrike]

Just realized that it looks like the CD009 uses a traditional slip-yoke, which means the custom driveshaft for that could be about 1/2 the price of a slip-style driveshaft. I guess I need to get my hands on that Aisin bell housing and take some measurements - maybe one of the CD009 adapter vendors can use those dimensions to determine what clutch options might work.

It also looks like two of the local u-pull's have a few Rodeo's, and one has a G35. If they have the right stuff and I can grab the bell housing and the trans for ~$100 then I guess I know which route I'm taking.

 

[CMNTMXR57]

Matt, I came across this comment in a T56 in a 3800 powered car, thread on LS1Tech;

Yes you can swap a T56 in for a T5 on a 3800, but you may need an adapter plate, and perhaps to switch to an LS1 input shaft which is longer than the LT1 piece, or so I have read. I stopped following the intricacies of this a while back but there are some people who have already and are currently doing this at fullthrottlev6.com. I'd suggest a search there. T5 will not likely play well with big power for long without at least doing some internal upgrades, but you might give it a shot and see how long it goes. In the long run replacing the five speed is a good idea.

On the rear - the v8 rear is the same as the v6 rear but you either have rear discs or you don't. They are all ten bolts. You just want to pick your gearing and open/lsd wisely. BTW the LS1 driveshaft should swap into the 3800/t5 car with no modification.

So it can be done, and might be easier/more cost effective. I posted this on PBC also, so just incase you see it there too.

 

[Mattstrike]

And... I'm going down the CD009 rabbit hole...

In other news, who needs an Isuzu trans without a bell housing?

 

[Mattstrike]

Picked this up yesterday:

Came with the entire clutch package, actually looks like it's in decent condition. Also grabbed the driveshaft, so at least I have the yoke, but you never know - the universal joints might be the same size and it might not need to be shortened.