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Big Problem??

Ricky Gonzalez

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last night i was comming home from a friends house. I was on rt. 30 going west at about 1:30 in the AM got the car upto about 100 mph then my SES light started blinking. I was just wondering, if it blinks does it mean there is something very wrong with the car or what? I know on older hondas when the CEL blinks its giving you the Diagnostic code for whats wrong but I dont know about the GP. this is the first time ive ever seen it do that.
 

PANDA

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My GTP did that when it was misfiring.
 

dole21

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go to autozone and tell them you have a SES light on and if they could tell you the code, they do it for free


But I would 2nd the misfire
 

Ricky Gonzalez

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well i have a scanner i can check it myself. besides the SES light is not on it just started flashing then stopped after about 2 min. ill scan it anyways and see if it is misfiring.
 

Toasty

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the flashing indicates that there is indeed a serious and continuous problem condition. if it goes away, then like other SES light conditions, the problem condition has remedied itself, but the code should still be in memory
 

Mike K

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A blinking CE light indicates only one thing: misfiring. :(
 

DaytonaPaceCar

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DTC P0300
Circuit Description

The powertrain control module (PCM) uses information from the ignition control (IC) module and the camshaft position (CMP) sensor in order to determine when an engine misfire occurs. By monitoring the variations in the crankshaft rotation speed for each cylinder the PCM is able to detect individual misfire events. A misfire rate that is high enough can cause the 3-way catalytic converter to overheat under certain conditions. The malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) will flash ON and OFF when the conditions for 3-way catalytic converter overheating are present.
Conditions for Running the DTC

* DTCs P0101, P0102, P0103, P0107, P0108, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0121, P0122, P0123, P0125, P0336, P0341, P0502, P0503, P1106, P1107, P1114, P1115, P1121, P1122, P1336, or P1374 are not set.
* The engine speed is between 550-5,850 RPM.
* The system voltage is between 9-18 volts.
* The engine coolant temperature (ECT) indicates an engine temperature between -6 to +120°C (21-248°F).
* The throttle angle is steady.

Conditions for Setting the DTC

The PCM is detecting a crankshaft RPM variation indicating a misfire sufficient to cause 3-way catalytic converter damage, or to cause the emissions levels to exceed a mandated standard.
Action Taken When the DTC Sets

* The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the second consecutive ignition cycle that the diagnostic runs and fails.
* The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The first time the diagnostic fails, the control module stores this information in the Failure Records. If the diagnostic reports a failure on the second consecutive ignition cycle, the control module records the operating conditions at the time of the failure. The control module writes the operating conditions to the Freeze Frame and updates the Failure Records.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC

* The control module turns OFF the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) after 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.
* A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.
* A history DTC clears after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles, if no failures are reported by this or any other emission related diagnostic.
* Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.

Diagnostic Aids

The scan tool provides information that can be useful in identifying the misfiring cylinder. If the DTC P0300 is currently stored as DTC status Failed Since Code Clear, the misfire history counters (Misfire Hist #1-#6) will still contain a value that represents the level of misfire detected on each cylinder.

A misfire DTC may set if components that affect the crankshaft position (CKP) sensor have recently been replaced, and the CKP system variation learn procedure has not been performed. If the diagnostic table does not identify a condition then perform the CKP System Variation Learn Procedure . The crankshaft position system variation learn procedure should be performed if any of the following conditions are true:

* The PCM has been replaced.
* DTC P1336 is set.
* The engine has been replaced.
* The crankshaft has been replaced.
* The crankshaft harmonic balancer has been replaced.
* The crankshaft position sensor has been replaced.

The scan tool displayed misfire counter values (Misfire Hist. #1-#6) can be useful in determining whether the misfire affects a single cylinder, a cylinder pair (cylinders that share an ignition coil , for example 1/4, 2/5, 3/6), or is random. If the largest amount of activity is isolated to a cylinder pair, inspect for the following conditions:

* The secondary ignition wires--Inspect the secondary wires associated with the affected cylinder pair for disconnected ignition wires or for excessive resistance. The wires should measure less than 600 ohms per foot.
* A damaged or malfunctioning ignition coil--Inspect for cracks, carbon tracking, or for other damage. Also inspect the coil's secondary resistance. Secondary resistance should be between 5000-8000 ohms (5-8 K ohms).

Switch the ignition coils and retest. If the misfire follows the coil, replace the ignition coil.

Important

If the level of misfire was sufficient to cause possible catalyst damage (if the MIL was flashing), ensure that the DTC P0420 test is completed and passed after verifying the misfire repair.

If the misfire is random, inspect for the following conditions:

* System grounds--Ensure all connections are clean and properly tightened.
* Mass air flow sensor-- Mass air flow (MAF) sensor output that causes the PCM to sense a lower than normal air flow will cause a lean condition. Try operating the vehicle within the Failure Records conditions with the MAF sensor disconnected. If the lean or misfiring condition is not present with the MAF sensor disconnected, refer to Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor Replacement .
* Damaged accessory drive belt or driven accessory--A damaged serpentine belt or belt driven accessory can cause engine load variations sufficient to set a misfire DTC.
* Air induction system--Vacuum leaks that cause intake air to bypass the mass air flow (MAF) sensor will cause a lean condition. Inspect for disconnected or damaged vacuum hoses, incorrectly installed or malfunctioning crankcase ventilation valve, or for vacuum leaks at the throttle body, exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve, and intake manifold mounting surfaces.
* Fuel pressure--Perform a fuel system pressure test. A malfunctioning fuel pump, plugged filter, or malfunctioning fuel system pressure regulator will contribute to a lean condition. Refer to Fuel System Diagnosis .
* Fuel injectors--Refer to Fuel Injector Coil Test .
* Water contamination in the fuel system can cause a single cylinder to misfire as well as cause a random misfire, refer to Alcohol/Contaminants-in-Fuel Diagnosis .
* Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system--Inspect for leaking valve, adapter, or feed pipes which will contribute to a lean condition or excessive EGR flow.
* Extended idle--Excessive Open Loop operation caused by extended idling or short trip driving may leave deposits on the heated oxygen sensors. The deposits cause oxygen sensors to respond slowly to exhaust oxygen content, affecting fuel control and causing a misfire to be indicated at idle. This condition is not permanent. To determine if this condition is causing the DTC P0300 to set, review the Freeze Frame/Failure Records for DTC P0300. If the DTC P0300 occurs at high engine speeds, the condition described above did not cause the DTC to set. If the DTC P0300 occurs at idle or very low engine speeds and at engine coolant temperatures below 80°C (176°F), the condition described above is very likely the cause of the DTC to set. The deposits on the heated oxygen sensors can be eliminated by operating the vehicle fully warm at mass air flows above 15 g/s.

Test Description

The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table.

2.

A malfunctioning injector circuit, crankshaft position system variation not learned condition, or incorrect rough road data from the electronic brake control module (EBCM) may cause a misfire DTC to be set. If any of the indicated DTCs are set with DTC P0300, diagnose and repair the other DTC before using the DTC P0300 table.
3.

The Misfire Current Cyl # display may normally display a small amount of activity, typically 0-10 count, but should not steadily increment during an entire 200-revolution test sample period.
4.

Depending on the cause of the misfire, the Misfire History Cyl # counter will display a very large number for the misfiring cylinders. The values for the non-misfiring cylinders will be less than 1/2 as great as the values for the misfiring cylinders. When investigating a misfire, always start with conditions associated with the cylinders that have the largest number of counts stored in the Misfire History Cyl # counter.
5.

Steps 5-12 test for conditions that can cause a random cylinder misfire.
13.

Steps 13-23 test for conditions that can cause a non-random or single cylinder misfire.

Step


Action


Values


Yes


No

1


Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check-Engine Controls?


--


Go to Step 2


Go to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls

2


Are any other DTCs set?


--


Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List


Go to Step 3

3


1. Start and idle the engine.
2. Review and record the scan tool Freeze Frame.
3. Operate the vehicle within the conditions present when the DTC was set.
4. Monitor the scan tool Misfire Current Cyl # display for each cylinder.

Is Misfire Current # display increments for any cylinder, indicating a misfire currently occurring?


--


Go to Step 4


Go to Diagnostic Aids

4


View the Misfire History Cyl # display with a scan tool.

Does Misfire History Cyl # display a very large value for more than one cylinder?


--


Go to Step 5


Go to Step 13

5


1. Inspect the vacuum hoses for splits, for kinks, and for improper connections. Refer to Emission Hose Routing Diagram .
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 6

6


1. Inspect the crankcase ventilation valve for improper installation and for damaged O-rings.
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 7

7


1. Inspect the throttle body inlet screen for damage or for the presence of foreign objects that may alter the air flow sample through the MAF sensor.
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary. Refer to Throttle Body Air Inlet Screen Replacement .

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 8

8


1. Test the fuel pressure. Refer to Fuel System Diagnosis .
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 9

9


1. Test the fuel for excessive water, for alcohol, or for other contaminants. Refer to Alcohol/Contaminants-in-Fuel Diagnosis .
2. If a condition was found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 10

10


1. Inspect the PCM injector grounds, power grounds and sensor grounds to ensure that the grounds are clean, tight, and in their proper locations. Refer to Ground Distribution Schematics in Wiring Systems.
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary. Refer to Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 11

11


1. Inspect the following areas for vacuum leaks:
* The intake manifold
* The EGR adapter
* The EGR valve
* The EGR feed pipes
* The injector O-rings
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 12

12


1. Remove the EGR valve. Refer to Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve Replacement .
2. Inspect the valve to ensure that the pintle is not sticking partially open. Also, inspect the EGR valve pintle and the seat for carbon deposits or for burrs that may interfere with the pintle closing completely.
3. If a condition is found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 13

13


1. Test for proper fuel injector operation. Refer to Fuel Injector Coil Test .
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 14

14


1. Inspect the ignition wires associated with the cylinders which were misfiring. Refer to Spark Plug Wire Inspection .
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary. Refer to Spark Plug Wire Replacement .

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 15

15


1. Install a J 26792 spark tester at the spark plug end of the ignition wire for the cylinder that is indicated by the Misfire Current Cyl # counters or Misfire History Cyl # counters as having the most severe misfire condition, indicated by the largest number of counts.
2. Jumper the spark plug end of the companion cylinder ignition wire to engine ground. The companion cylinder is the cylinder that shares the same ignition coil (i.e., 1/4; 2/5; 3/6).
3. Crank the engine while observing the J 26792 . A spark should be observed.

Is spark present?


--


Go to Step 20


Go to Step 16

16


1. Remove and inspect the ignition wires associated with the cylinders that were indicated as misfiring. Refer to Spark Plug Wire Inspection . Ensure that the wires and boots are free of carbon tracking and the insulation is not damaged.

Important

If carbon tracking or terminal discoloration is apparent at the ignition coil end of any of the ignition wires, replace the affected ignition wire and the associated ignition coil. Refer to Ignition Coil(s) Replacement .

2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary. Refer to Spark Plug Wire Replacement .

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 17

17


Measure the resistance of the spark plug wires associated with the cylinders that were indicated as misfiring. Refer to Ignition System Specifications .

Did you find and correct the condition?


7,000 ohms


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 18

18


1. Inspect the ignition coils associated with the cylinders that were indicated as misfiring. Ensure that the coils and the coil towers are free of cracks and carbon tracking.
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary. Refer to Ignition Coil(s) Replacement .

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 19

19


1. Measure the ignition coil secondary resistance.
2. If resistance is not between the specified values, replace the malfunctioning ignition coils as necessary. Refer to Ignition Coil(s) Replacement .

Did you find and correct the condition?


5K-8K ohms

(5000-8000 ohms)


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 24

20


1. Remove the spark plugs from the cylinders that were indicated as misfiring. Refer to Spark Plug Replacement .
2. Inspect the spark plug electrodes for excessive fouling. Refer to Spark Plug Inspection .

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Symptoms - Engine Mechanical in Engine Mechanical -3.8L


Go to Step 21

21


1. Inspect the spark plug insulators for cracks, carbon tracking, or other damage. Refer to Spark Plug Inspection .
2. Inspect the spark plug electrodes for incorrect gap. Refer to Ignition System Specifications .
3. If a condition is found, repair as necessary. Refer to Spark Plug Replacement .

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 22

22


1. Inspect for an engine mechanical condition. Refer to Symptoms - Engine Mechanical in Engine Mechanical-3.8L.
2. If a condition is found, repair as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Step 23

23


1. Inspect for a transaxle torque converter clutch (TCC) condition. Refer to Torque Converter Diagnosis Procedure in Automatic Transaxle-4T65-E.
2. If a condition is found, repair the transaxle as necessary.

Did you find and correct the condition?


--


Go to Step 25


Go to Diagnostic Aids

24


Replace the ignition control module. Refer to Ignition Control Module Replacement .

Did you complete the replacement?


--


Go to Step 25


--

25


1. Use a scan tool in order to clear the DTCs.
2. Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
3. Start the engine.
4. Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC as specified in the supporting text.

Does the DTC run and pass?


--


Go to Step 26


Go to Step 2

26


With a scan tool, observe the stored information, Capture Info.

Does the scan tool display any DTCs that you have not diagnosed?


--


Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List


System OK
Document ID# 792860
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix
 

Ricky Gonzalez

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i just scanned the car, and it threw a evap code p1441. Evap flow during non purge.
 

BigJermGTP

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Um Ricky,

You do know there is a police station off of Rt. 30....right?
I'm all for doing a 100,just not there. Consider yourself lucky espessially at 1:30 in the morning.

Hope ya get it fixed, what do you have to do in order for it to be right?
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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i just scanned the car, and it threw a evap code p1441. Evap flow during non purge. [/b]
that might trigger a missfire at a no load high manifold vacum condition... there was no P0300?



ok basically the PCM is detecting low manifold vacum when the purge is commanded off (pcm looks at the MAP to determine if the EGR/EVAP are functioning on alot of vehicles)



if this is the 99 i havent had the pleasure before...i used tosee it on alot of the early OBDII and OBDI GM's since the carbon granules from the charcoal canister can get sucked into the purge line and will stick the EVAP Purge (or Vent) open by lodging in the solenoid...

the "fix" was to replace the solenoid and charcoal canister and blow out the plastic line....



my fix...blow out solenoid and install 99 cent plastic carby fuel filter in the charcoal canister line to the purge solenoid



as for what it may be on yours....at the least get white paper towls and place them under the purge solenoid and lines and pull the lines off the solenoid carefully and try to get any FOD out of the lines...if it's black granules...buy a 99cent fuel filter and blow out the solenoid....or spend $$$ for new OEM parts



see what comes out of the solenoid and lines and get back to me...



Regards, James
 

Ricky Gonzalez

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I have a spare solenoid laying around i was just going to replace it. I was talking to a friend of mine and thats pretty much the conclusion we came up to. carbon sticking the vent open.

Also I forgot to mention, I do need to replace some gaskets badly. I know there was a member here who kept throwning multiple cylilnder misfire codes left and right and took the car to the stealership and they told her it was the LIM gasket. I already bought the gasket and will install them when I do my Intercooler set-up. probably the end of this week.

Um Ricky,

You do know there is a police station off of Rt. 30....right?
I'm all for doing a 100,just not there. Consider yourself lucky espessially at 1:30 in the morning.

Hope ya get it fixed, what do you have to do in order for it to be right?
[/b]
yes I know this and it was before I even got to Orchard. this was going over the bridge right after Bolder Hill. there were no cars around at the time thats why I did it.
 

Fish

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once and awhile I would get a flashing SES. Multiple misfires. I checked the plugs and wires and it never happened again. Could be another thing to look at.
 

Ricky Gonzalez

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Yeah i was going to replace the plugs and wires too. so far i have LIM gaskets, S/C gaskets, TB gasket, plugs and wires. i still need to pick up valve cover gaskets but i will get those this weekend.
 

phat_ridegt

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like mike said, unless there is a fault in the MIL circuit, the ONLY reason the ses light will ever flash, is for a misfire. maybe it was an intermittent issue, and it would come off and on once in a while, but blinking can only be a misfire
 

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