3800 3800 F-body Transmission Problems and (Hopefully) Solutions

v6buicks

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The project is going smoothly, but I'm thinking this will be the last post I make in this thread because the information between this and my build thread is getting redundant. For those wanting to follow along with the rest of the F-body conversion, visit my build thread. Otherwise, the 3800 part is officially proven! A consolidated article will be written when it's fully finished.

I found a use for my old T5 bell. It's a great placeholder for the cross-member while it get's modified.
1627691436222.png

By the way. That's the transmission fully mated to the 3800! All bolts are installed without clearance issues.

It still needs to come out again for HTOB adjustment though. lol
1627691597804.png
 

v6buicks

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What do you want for all the old T5 stuff maybe I'll just go NA 3800 LN3/manual trans in the Cressida
Free.99. I have two of them. Both are in pieces, but only one was disassembled. ?. Both of them have freshly busted third gears. I also have a 94-95 S10 4-cyl bellhousing you can have if you would rather mount one upright. I'm never going to use it.
 

v6buicks

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Crap I just remembered that your 3 cornfields left of nowhere....

But on the other side of the coin I've been searching LKQ for 4l60e and T5 stuffs
I am, but I make semi-frequent trips up that direction. Let me know if you want stuff. It will end up going to scrap otherwise.
 
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Turbocharged400sbc

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Yesssssssssss alll da tings.

The disassembled junk trans I would say just grab the speedo Drive portion or Vss.
But I'll take all the bells and whistles as it were....I can at least throw your money to cover your gas and lunch.

Remember if the 460 big block for my 68 F250 is junk I'm probably going to put a 3800 in front of the zf five speed....
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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Dude the 4l60e and it's newer variants are way easier than the 4t65e/4t80e.

I was looking at the 70E because it has the input shaft speed sensor and no PSM so i can use 03 pcm stuffs.

I think if anything I'm just going to get a junkyard for l60e do a few of the standard accumulator and plate stuff and finally get the shift pattern I really want. And maybe get rid of my 3 speed shifter for an actual for 4 speed unit.

It is supposed to be for my father since I destroyed his 79 RX7 when I was an idiot boy.... so I kind of wanted to be manual trans like the RX7....but on the other side of the coin he's been driving manual trans semi trucks for nearly two million miles....so now that he "retiring" he may prefer a slushbox.
 

sktchy

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Dude the 4l60e and it's newer variants are way easier than the 4t65e/4t80e.

I was looking at the 70E because it has the input shaft speed sensor and no PSM so i can use 03 pcm stuffs.

I think if anything I'm just going to get a junkyard for l60e do a few of the standard accumulator and plate stuff and finally get the shift pattern I really want. And maybe get rid of my 3 speed shifter for an actual for 4 speed unit.

It is supposed to be for my father since I destroyed his 79 RX7 when I was an idiot boy.... so I kind of wanted to be manual trans like the RX7....but on the other side of the coin he's been driving manual trans semi trucks for nearly two million miles....so now that he "retiring" he may prefer a slushbox.
I'm just going with what I have for now really, hoping they at least put the 5 pin planetary thing in it when it was rebuilt. My trans knowledge is pretty limited but given the 60es reputation I'm sure it won't be long til I'm asking how to rebuild it.

The rx7 thing, I may have done the same with an 81 and hated myself for it ever since. Someday I'd like to find one and be able to do this kinda stuff with it.

I'll throw the rest of this nonsense in my thread tho, I don't wanna muddy up this beautiful tkx swap with my uneducated banter.
 

v6buicks

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So much for abandoning this thread, but I made a big mistake. The fancy Tilton HTOB I bought for this conversion is not going to work. The compressed bearing is 0.6" short of reaching the spring fingers. It needs to be ~0.125".

I did some googling. There are a couple other adjustable HTOBs out there, but they're all designed with roughly the same height. It's all you would ever need for any of the GM V8 applications, so fuck me. From there, I had a moment where my piggly ass was just standing shirtless in the garage with the box fan blowing my sweat everywhere. I stared at the mess of Camaro/TKX and started to think about how much money I had potentially wasted. Instead of crying, I went inside to cool off and do more googling.

Idea #1) Simply space the whole shebang so that both the retainer and the bearing are at the height they need to be. (Definitely not a good idea)
- The bearing retainer holds the input shaft seal and has a fluid path in it. Spacing it will screw those functions up.

Idea #2) Complicatedly space the whole shebang using the original bearing retainer. (Possibility)
- The original bearing retainer has very little meat for machining. This probably doesn't matter since I really just need to support the threaded section of the Tilton.
- I would need to find a way to mount the Tilton retainer on top of the original retainer which means ghetto standoffs with longer more bolts AND an adjustment locking pin

Idea #3) Ditch all the Tilton stuff and go back to original HTOB to eliminate the locking pin. (Possibility)
- This would mean eliminating that QC so that I don't need to drill holes in the bell (fine) Thanks, Russell
- Likely to work with minimal lathe work.
*Remove bearing retainer shaft from original retainer
*Cut a grove for HTOB's centering ring.
*Drill/tap two holes

The last two ideas and combinations of both are probably my tickets. All these ideas may also require making my own shims. Check out the pictures with captions for context. Maybe you all can think of something better.


1628683983996.png

Transmission side of bearing retainer. It would be tough to recreate all this, so I would rather modify it to suit.

1628684029213.png

Outside of original bearing retainer

1628684298536.png

T5 HTOB over Tilton retainer. The Tilton piece is flatter and meatier which may be a better piece to modify. It's a big risk to take at $450 though. :oops:

1628684445276.png

This pictures remind me that the centering ring on the T5 HTOB will actually touch the retainer bolts which isn't cool. It will probably have to rest on top and centered in some other fashion. Damn.
 
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v6buicks

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Idea #4) Custom threaded sleeve for Tilton bearing. (Super clean installation)
- Custom machine work needed, but should be a relatively simple request.
- Have a tube welded to either retainer and thread it for more adjustment
- Longer locking pin needed
- Just thread the original TKX bearing retainer? I need to find out what the threads are on the Tilton and measure the TKX retainer to see if this is even possible.
 
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v6buicks

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Idea #5) basically reintroducing Idea #1 with off-the shelf parts and still may not work (DIY but requires more measurements)
- Unknown: Total diameter of the RAM Clutches spacer ring (needs to be able to center a GM aluminum bellhousing)
- Unknown: Is the input shaft sealing surface extended out far enough that the seal will still work with .6"+ spacing?
- Holes need bored (and counter cored) for retainer bolts.
- Four more holes drilled and tapped for Tilton retainer mounting
- Dremel a fluid flow path
- Open up ID (probably need a lathe for that)

Thanks bs009 bs009 for the T56 thread. I wouldn't have considered this without it!
 
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bs009

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v6buicks

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Can you use the original T5 retainer? If so you can just stack a bunch of T56 spacers between the retainer and the HTOB


I happen to have a .5" and a .197" spacer I'm not using right now that I could send over
That would be titties, but the T5 retainer is a totally different animal on the under side. It has the input seal which is half the battle, but it's also keyed for the T5 and has provisions for retaining the tapered roller input bearing that the TKX does not have. I will have to give it another look though. If I can just remove (cut) all the extra BS from the bottom of it, I may have something.

It's not out of the question! Let's call that Idea #6
 

Mr_Roboto

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Call and ask Tilton if they have something on the shelf that's workable.

Is the retainer cast iron? If I had a lathe I'd machine the extension off, make a new one, bore out the hole and either thread it or braze on the new piece. You'd need to have the extension turned and bored but making a tube with a flange on it shouldn't be a big deal tbh.
 
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v6buicks

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bs009 bs009 do you by chance still have the thick spacer handy? What is it's OD measurement? I need to know if it can locate my bell.

Call and ask Tilton if they have something on the shelf that's workable.

Is the retainer cast iron? If I had a lathe I'd machine the extension off, make a new one, bore out the hole and either thread it or braze on the new piece. You'd need to have the extension turned and bored but making a tube with a flange on it shouldn't be a big deal tbh.
I will for sure be asking Tilton when I get a free minute.

I like your idea of threading a custom insert. That would work great if there's enough meat above the input seal. The Tilton unit is aluminum, and the Tremec one is cast steel.
 
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