3800 3800 F-body Transmission Problems and (Hopefully) Solutions

[Turbocharged400sbc]

If it was laid over more than 45 degrees I could see them having an issue but being as how many different manufacturers have canted Transmissions I doubt you're going to have any issues. Not to mention they are designed to keep oil on the gears during hard cornering and the oil is constantly climbing the gear teeth and getting slung around the insides so it's pretty much an oil tornado at anything over 40 miles an hour.

To put this in perspective for you the manual transaxles and even the automatics are commonly flipped upside down in the modified car world just for favorable CV Driveline angles

 

[v6buicks]

That's interesting regarding the racecar stuff. Didn't know that. It might be worth seeing what kind of clearance issues I have one way or the other. Something I didn't think about is that if I make a goofy trans mount adapter, I can probably skip modifying the crossmember. ?

Dang. I did not see my mind being changed that easily.

 

[v6buicks]

1993-2002 Camaro Firebird T56 6-Speed Black Short Throw Shifter Stick HT-25001B | eBay

This is a quick simple upgrade for your 6 speed shifter.

www.ebay.com

Shit. It's going to be that easy to buy the right shifter handle too? Tilted it is!

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Why did I suddenly have a pinball machine flashback

 

[v6buicks]

Turbocharged400sbc I'm all tore up over the trans tilting debacle. I failed to mention/remember the roller bearing situation. I'm back to leaning toward the upright position again. The input shaft bearing has this oil passage that needs to stay upright. The 20 degrees or so might not matter. However, I can't remember entirely what that's about, so I'll have to read up again.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

that passage is for sling/drip lubrication, the forward bearing is oiled/cooled by the oil slinging up to the top of the case and flowing downward along the walls where its channeled towards that front passsage through the forward bulkhead, to let oil drip down to the bearing without applying too much oil that it pushes pas the IS seal and oils down your clutch.

ever see an old 12 bolt axle cover with the wird bends in the rear cover? those channel oil to the carrier side bearings.

that cutout only has to align with the passage and be above the bearing.

your fine

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

imma go onna limb here and guess its a complete splash lube trans....doubt at that price point that it has an internal oil pump/pickup/filter

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

also, its nice of yer old lady to hold yer parts for ya while ya snap a pic

 

[v6buicks]

I feel like a member of an exclusive club now. Since I actually have the transmission in my hands, I can now contact Tremec directly for questions and support. The contact form requires a build code and serial number for submission. I couldn't help but notice that the low production numbers of this unit. I'm apparently number 30 for this case and ratio combination.

Anyway, I decided to ask Tremec about the clocking debacle just for piece of mind. If they say "no". I buy a shifter and drill the bell. If they say I'm good to go, then I skip to installation and building a custom mount adapter.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I feel like a member of an exclusive club now. Since I actually have the transmission in my hands, I can now contact Tremec directly for questions and support. The contact form requires a build code and serial number for submission. I couldn't help but notice that the low production numbers of this unit. I'm apparently number 30 for this case and ratio combination.
View attachment 95154

Anyway, I decided to ask Tremec about the clocking debacle just for piece of mind. If they say "no". I buy a shifter and drill the bell. If they say I'm good to go, then I skip to installation and building a custom mount adapter.

Does that mean there are 29 other people trying to make one of these to a 3800.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Might as well start building your custom mount adapter. I don't think they're going to have any problems with how you mount it unless it's 90 degrees

 

[v6buicks]

I really don't think it will be a matter of possibility. It's more so that there is no longer an easy way to get the correct amount of fluid inside. The tilt moves the fill plug higher. Hopefully Tremec has an answer for me today.

 

[v6buicks]

I just got the call. Warranty is void if the trans is not clocked at 12 because it has never been tested that way. I don't want to take chances, and the more I think about building that goofy mount adapter, the less I want to do it. The crossmember and bell mods will be much easier to get right.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Jig it up, do it to it.

 

[v6buicks]

Jig it up, do it to it.

Lucky for me, there's no jig needed for the bell. GM already piloted the holes for me. I just need to center punch them to keep the drill in place. For the crossmember I can use the car as a jig. Bolt in place, cut a section out of the middle, reweld behind it's original location, remove from car, and brace it! I still wish I could just use the shifter that came with the trans, but they apparently leave a bit to be desired anyway.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Lucky for me, there's no jig needed for the bell. GM already piloted the holes for me. I just need to center punch them to keep the drill in place. For the crossmember I can use the car as a jig. Bolt in place, cut a section out of the middle, reweld behind it's original location, remove from car, and brace it! I still wish I could just use the shifter that came with the trans, but they apparently leave a bit to be desired anyway.

Even better. Honestly what you're doing with your crossmember looks awfully similar to what I did on my first Astro when I swapped the 4L80E in. I just cut the center out and grafted on a section of 2X2 box steel. Now then I also didn't have a Camaro's ground clearance (or rather not) to worry about however.

 

[v6buicks]

Even better. Honestly what you're doing with your crossmember looks awfully similar to what I did on my first Astro when I swapped the 4L80E in. I just cut the center out and grafted on a section of 2X2 box steel. Now then I also didn't have a Camaro's ground clearance (or rather not) to worry about however.

At first my idea was to buy boxed tubing and just weld it to the back but I noticed two things. The bigger TKX will be in the away of the original mount spot on the 4L60e crossmember, so I'll have to remove the section instead of just adding. The other thing is that my first idea is a waste of material anyway. lol Instead of adding and drilling a box, I can just move the existing piece back and brace it with scrap pieces I have sitting around. I know I have some remnants of 1/4" plate that can be sacrificed. This is great!

The most recent episode of Finnegan's Garage taught me a neat trick on how to make your own center punches for specific jobs, so I look forward to trying that out too. It will make drilling the bell a lot easier on the nerves!

 

[sktchy]

Stoked to see you finally got the tkx and see this build going strong. Gives me hope for the problems I'm soon to see.

 

[v6buicks]

I didn't get as much done last night as I hoped, but progress is progress. As fulfilling and successful as the last few days have been, my back and fingers have had enough of all this wrenching!


While I said "perfect cuts" the casting should not be trusted. I'm glad I checked first because the holes did not line up very well on the other side. I made a center punch out of a bolt, made my dings, and started drilling. I would not recommend doing this sort of modification to just any bell because a lot of extra meat is cast into the sections where bolts have potential to pass through. Other parts of the bell are not going to be strong enough to hold the transmission.

I was a lot more careful with these than I have been with my drill bits and taps in the past. The bolts thread in super straight and easily.

After that I removed the beat up flywheel from the car, remembered that the new one is going to need it's holes drilled bigger for the ARP bolts, and decided that it was time to call it quits for the night. Tonight I think I'm going to drill and install the new flywheel, install the clutch, pull the GN out of the garage, and test fit the trans! ?I never thought I'd see the day.

If I'm REALLY productive, I might even stop being a goober for a minute and install the other poly engine mount. I installed one months ago, but I sometimes have the attention span of a goldfish.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

So much win in this thread.

 

[Yaj Yak]

swingin

 

[v6buicks]

It looks like I need to speed up my progress if I don't want to run into another "waiting for parts" delay. Nervous about this, I started researching yokes. I never thought about it, but there's a lot more to that buying process than I anticipated. A lot of pieces are out of stock without even giving options to purchase and wait for them. I'm scrambling.

I initially based my whole assumption about TKX length on a short blurb about how Bowler used a stock driveshaft in their 3rd gen TKO conversion, but that's not enough information for slip yoke shopping. I found some real measurements. Some were in mm, others in inches, and they all required algebra. Here it is.

The main thing to get out of this are the front of case rear of output lengths. A 4th gen Camaro T5 is actually an entire inch shorter than a TKX.

Using dennysdriveshaft.com as a source for measurements a stock Camaro T5 3r slip yoke is has a barrel length (#3) of 3 5/8" and a length to center (#1) of 5 1/2". Some how I need to account for an inch and preferably not overshoot it. Lowering the ride height of this car is next on the list upon the completion of this conversion. If I'm not mistaking, this will slightly push the yoke in further.

I think this is going to be my guy. I'm going to put the T5 and TKX side by side again just to make sure my research is valid and refer to this thread to snag it later tonight!

Dana Spicer 3-3-5961X 1350 Slip Yoke for Tremec T56 Magnum and TKO 600 Transmission with 31 spline output

Dana Spicer 3-3-5961X Tremec Transmission Slip yoke 1350 Series for 31 Spline output T56 Magnum and TKO 600

www.dennysdriveshaft.com

To ease my mind, It may be worth tossing the trans in the car ASAP even without a flywheel just to find my shifter offset too. I don't want hose fancy shifters to suddenly go out of stock too! After that, I think I'll at least have all the parts I need to finish this car.

 

[bs009]

I also discovered that the 3800 4l60e is 1" shorter than the v8 4l60e. I counted on reusing my driveshaft since all of the T56 swap threads mentioned reusing theirs, but I had to cut mine a little over an inch.

I used this 31 spline slip yoke with the 1330 u joint connection (same as my driveshaft)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdh-2-3-6041x

I'd get it all in there and figure out if you need to cut your driveshaft / order a new one in case that takes a while too.

 

[v6buicks]

I also discovered that the 3800 4l60e is 1" shorter than the v8 4l60e. I counted on reusing my driveshaft since all of the T56 swap threads mentioned reusing theirs, but I had to cut mine a little over an inch.

I used this 31 spline slip yoke with the 1330 u joint connection (same as my driveshaft)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sdh-2-3-6041x

I'd get it all in there and figure out if you need to cut your driveshaft / order a new one in case that takes a while too.

Wow. I never would have guessed that about the 4L60Es. Weird. I just got home, so I'm going to start working on that in a minute.

 

[v6buicks]

I got them lined up.

While they look like the same exact length, the output shafts are not. The seal on the TKX plays mind games.

I ordered the yoke in my link. It's probably a bit longer than I'd like, but I also need to remember that this stock wimpy driveshaft is not longing for this earth. It's just being used to hold me over for a bit.

The new flywheel is re-drilled and reinstalled after needing to put another heli-coil in the crank. ? The clutch is installed as well after thoroughly cleaning the flywheel and bolt goo.

Then I started feeling way too excited to quit. I broke out the 2x6" trans jack and set the TKX on it.

Holy SHIT. Screw the tilted position! I would go upright for the sole reason of having a transmission that can balance itself. Despite the weight gains, this thing is 10x easier to install. It will not quite go in all the way without some more work though.

The shifter hole will need to be notched...

and a bit more difficult to address is the middle shift position block-off plate hitting the cross brace in the body. I'm not scared to cut it and forget that it ever existed. It's just more shit I have to do before I drive. The trans WAS held in with one bolt though!