2004-2005 Comp G

[AThomas]

In order to 60' a stock-ish weight GTP well enough to get in the mid 12's would require a pretty small pulley. I was able to finagle a 14.1@99mph in mine (stock+tune 93 octane) but no matter what I did it was a dog off the line with the stock pulley/converter. A GT converter would be a very ideal/cheap upgrade and if you're handy enough the GT gearing would really help. It'd be no different than doing gears/converter on your cookie cutter Fbody setup. You're not going to gain a full second like one of those will, but it would certainly be .5 seconds pending the TQ that particular setup is making.

Weight will be the biggest enemy, the stock transmissions break if you look at them wrong. Some people get insanely lucky and some people break built transmissions on a shakedown run. This is definitely the #1 reason I would recommend choosing a different platform to drag race. You will go through the struggles of transmission troubles, you will spend more money than you ever budgeted and you WILL end up dumping the platform like everyone else that learned the same lesson.

You mean taking a converter out of a N/A GP GT, the gearing/chain and putting it into a Comp G? I thought the advantage was the 3.29 FDR? Since we have the transmission apart wouldn't make more sense to drop in the GXP 7/8 chain?

Assuming you were running on street tires, didn't you have to launch at a lower RPM and feather the throttle to keep from spinning the tires? M&H recommends starting at 15 psi. I found 10-12 psi worked on my Focus ST, launching at 4,000 rpm. More rpm would spin the slicks more (1.8+). As it was it was losing 1,200 rpm from the launch rpm until the clutch finally hooked up. I also was launching on the fuel cut, not ignition cut, no boost was being generated at launch.

Brake boosting would come in around 2500 rpm on the stock converter, that's a guess. What would it flash too after launch? I according to It Still Runs torque peak is at 5200 rpm (320 lbs).

Seems to me on ethanol it would make more torque from more aggressive ignition advance. I thought the stock pulley was 3.8 on the Series III, going down .8 is pretty aggressive no?

I could spend more and go down to 2.8 or 2.6 I guess but at what point so I have to start worrying about belt slippage?

Beyond all that, I never said, claimed or assumed this was a platform ideal to extract performance out of. Let's just for giggles say we swap in a 5 speed manual from the mid 90's GP's. You open up a whole different set of problems. It's possible to break an input shaft in those too; clutches designed to hold a ton of torque either mean a really stiff pedal or going with a very expensive twin disc setup. I know of one Fiero 3800 that runs a twin Tilton clutch ($$$) and his 60 ft times are in the 1.8's, in a RWD car; It requires looking at what happens with the clutch pedal a whole different way.

The W-body at this point is a very inexpensive performance car. It's likely I will overpay for it but I don't see anything else I want for that price point with potential this car has.

I talked via email with Dave @TEP, he said the stock trans will be fine up to about 375/400 hp if in good working order. After that the input shaft becomes the next problem, then the drive chain.

Maybe some people have bad luck and wheel hop does quite a bit of damage beyond just axles.

 

[AThomas]

or wait till it’s li


you will need over 300whp to run in the 12’s on e98 you won’t do that with stock injectors, maybe a stock pump with a rewire

I wasn't assuming stock injectors with E98, upgrading is easy to do and inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. If the point of a rewire is to ensure 12 volts, I rather do a Boost-A-Pump.

There is a'97 GTP with short stack, front power log and 2.5 downpipe = [email protected] (on QTP's, 1.85 60ft)

A cam was in the original build list but was left off because of the cost of everything else combined. I wanted to the do the valve train upgrades because that would help make up for the extra weight.

I am looking at a budget of $1,200 and that doesn't afford all the things even Turbo Tim suggested in his video, save for the u bend delete which isn't on the later cars anyway.

We'll see what I can come up with.

 

[AThomas]

I'm not saying he wont run a 12.6, I'm saying its gonna take more than he thinks to get there, especially comparing it to factory turbo cars

I think the turbo cars are a fair comparison, especially the Focus ST. @4000 rpm there is a fuel cut, not an ignition cut. Which means no boost is generated at launch. boost comes up quickly because K03's are tiny.

Both cars have small quick responding turbos.

It may in-fact take more but let's see before we start throwing money around. Trust me I have no problem spending money on cars.

 

[SaturdaysGS]

Good luck, following along.

 

[10sec]

 

[GTPpower]

Use the slicks. They are better for the transmission. Plus you'll always have traction problems with drag radials on these cars.

There were a very small handful of these cars that went 13's stock. It's not anywhere close to normal. At your elevation, you should be in the mid 14's.

Don't waste your time and money on exhaust work. The Dyno and scans show there is no benefit to any of it. That includes the plog. Spend your money on something that will actually make the car faster.

The stock injectors will max around a 3.4 pulley on e85, so you'll need those.

A local guy last summer had a gtp with drag radials, e85, injectors, 2.8 pulley, and intake ran low 13's at our terrible air. He broke his transmission on that pass, but it would have been very close to a 12 second pass if he had not. At your elevation, you should be fairly close to your time after some practice and a good tune.

 

[10sec]

Stock injectors will not support anything but stock with E85. I converted my stock car to E85 because you have about 28-30% overhead on 93 octane. Running full throttle would put the injectors over 100% duty cycle, I had plenty of scans to prove it. PANDA rode in that car when it was on E85 but otherwise stock and felt the power. Still no way to make up for the lack of TQ on the stock pulley. It would spin the tires a little bit on the street but 2.2 60' was the absolute best it would do at byron. Flashing it, stalling it, didn't matter, zero tire spin and MASSIVE bogging. As I've already said though, if it had a GT converter and gears it would have been a lot quicker.

 

[GTPpower]

04+ cars don't calculate injector duty cycle correctly. That's why you think they are maxed.

My 04 comp g was telling me that my 60lb injectors were maxed on a 3.4 pulley with e85.

 

[10sec]

Mine wasn't an 04+

 

[GTPpower]

04+ will have more head room.

 

[10sec]

20% more head room though? I just feel like that advice isn't really good, it's more like you CAN do it but you probably shouldn't. Just simply throwing in 42# injectors and running e85 doesn't require any tuning and will put you in the same place as the car was when it was on 93 octane, with whatever head room you're claiming is there.

 

[GTPpower]

Yeah I agree, it's not something I would recommend. But it can be done. It was just a reference for the OP to show stock injectors aren't going to get him where he wants.

 

[boostedguy05]

i think we are all saying the same thing a different way.

saying that it is possible to get a GTP to go 12.6, just not with what he has planned.

 

[PANDA]

Why would I blow it up, care to elaborate?

What is wrong with slicks? Drag Radials will be faster but with a new car and a learning curve I would go rather go with slicks, no magic just air down until it doesn't spin anymore. I don't buy used slicks especially when I have no idea how many passes are on them and I happen to like these M&H slicks.

I have around 60 passes on the ones in the garage. One has a slit in the sidewall, can't be fixed. Unless somebody is parting out their build and I haven't really looked yet I rather buy fresh rubber.

A 3.0 on a Gen V is ALOT of boost to be running with really nothing combat knock besides E85. You really should consider a intercooler. You also need injectors at that level with E85. I have been out of the 3800 game for years but Ive been there and done that. My guess used parts are CHEAP now. I would seriously consider looking at used stuff. I never said anything is wrong with slicks, I just feel mounting a DR on the stock wheels is a cheaper option. It sounds like the slicks you have you will need to buy wheels for. That can't be cheap. I am all about going fast on a budget.

Also stop comparing trap speeds and 1/4 mile times with other cars. The supercharged 3800 isn't known for high trap speeds.

 

[10sec]

That's because they knock retard like crazy in the higher gears due to blower outlet temps. Not recommended but on pump gas 93 my stock ass car was getting 4°+ of knock and my car was trapping about 94mph. I turned the knock sensors off because it was completely stock and gained 5mph.

 

[PANDA]

I turned my knock sensors off also. fucker would knock on the burnout.

 

[bikrboy128]

Wasn't there a whole turbo 04+ car for sale for under $2k not too long ago?

 

[10sec]

Yeah, needed a trans. I would have picked that up if I had room to work on it, was a hell of a deal. I think it was like $500.

 

[SaturdaysGS]

Wasn't there a whole turbo 04+ car for sale for under $2k not too long ago?

My car was, Clint in Wisconsin bought it. Currently building the engine and putting on a bigger turbo... by building I should rephrase he replaced the block with another L26, but going st5 cam.

The car that needed a trans was a supercharged cammed car IIRC, and it would have done what this guy wanted for $500 for the car and the cost of a used trans.

 

[RICH17]

I talked via email with Dave @TEP, he said the stock trans will be fine up to about 375/400 hp if in good working order. After that the input shaft becomes the next problem, then the drive chain.

uuuhhhhmmmmmmmmm

I dont see how Dave could say that. people blow these things up all the time.

Ask me how I know.

 

[10sec]

I can't imagine he did either, especially since he has stages of transmissions that start much lower than 375hp.

I feel like this is a very low key troll.

 

[GTPpower]

His highest stage is only like 450 whp.

 

[boostedguy05]

yeah, stock trannies were barely good for 300 hp track use. street use you were fine, but once you started launching these cars at the track, you'd go 5 feet and rev a lot.

 

[PANDA]

yeah, stock trannies were barely good for 300 hp track use. street use you were fine, but once you started launching these cars at the track, you'd go 5 feet and rev a lot.

Plenty of people had good luck with stock transmissions in modified cars. Transmission longevity is more luck if you ask me.

 

[PANDA]

we need Ron Vogel in this thread.