Infiniti Is Getting Absolutely Creamed (Updated)

EmersonHart13

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It’s not a good time for Infiniti. The company’s lineup has received little praise from critics, its headquarters is now back in Japan after a confounding (Johan-directed) move to Hong Kong and—worst of all—it is getting absolutely creamed in the U.S. And with European operations already abandoned, it’s hard to see how the brand is going to turn itself around.

According to the company’s September sales report and spotted by Carscoops, Infiniti sales plunged 43.9 percent in September. I’ve used the word “plunged” many times covering stocks and car sales, but never has it seemed quite this accurate. That result is brutal and makes the combined Nissan and Infiniti 24 percent drop seem palatable by comparison.

We noted earlier this week that car sales are falling fast across the board, but no one fell harder than Infiniti. Fiat managed a similarly bad 38 percent decline, but Infiniti still had the toughest September.

Every single Infiniti nameplate had a double-digit sales drop. Worst was the QX30 with an 83.2 percent drop, but that’s largely because the model has been discontinued. But the rest of the story is grim, too. The Q70 cratered 60.2 percent, Q60 sales dove 59.8 percent, QX50 sales dropped 51.1 percent and QX80 deliveries were down 50.4 percent.

When a 50.4 percent drop is your 5th-worst number for the month, you’re in trouble. Most concerning, though, is probably the QX50 sales drop. That’s the brand’s newest product. It features the much-hyped variable compression engine and exists in the hottest luxury segment there is right now. If you’re crashing there, with an all-new product, it’s not a good sign.

And boy, does Infiniti need some sort of good sign. The company left the European market earlier this year after disappointing sales. In shutting down its European operations Infiniti axed the QX30, leaving its product lineup even less filled out.

With the European market ceded and the variable compression engine looking like less of a gamechanger than Infiniti may have expected, the company is betting its hopes on two things: the U.S. market, where it has always been focused, and electrification.

Right now, though, the company has yet to take any leadership in electrification. And since U.S. sales of even its newest model are in freefall, it’s hard to see how the company will make a sustainable business case for its future.

Update 10:55 p.m.: A spokesman for Infiniti provided the following comment on the company’s September results:

“Infiniti is in transition as we move toward a new era of electrification, which we announced early last year. For the 2020 model year, we have made a significant upgrade to our InTouch twin-screen infotainment system, and those vehicles are heading to our showrooms. We announced in August that a new QX55 sport utility coupe will arrive next summer, and a few months after that, we’ll have an all-new core (higher volume) vehicle that will be introduced. Infiniti’s new generation of vehicles, based upon electrified platforms, are certainly on the horizon in just a couple of model years. Those will be fully electric, or fully electric with a small gasoline engine that’s there simply to help charge the batteries. With our Q, QX and Qs Inspiration concept vehicles, we have given consumers a clear indication of what Infiniti showrooms will look like in a very short time. Overall, we are quite excited, optimistic and most of all, focused on our future.
 

blakbearddelite

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I got an e-mail a couple weeks ago from the Infiniti dealership. They were offering really good incentives for me to trade-in my car. I liked my Q50, never had a problem with it. But for some reason, I wasn't really motivated to get into another Infiniti.
 

FirstWorldProblems

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Outside the GTR, I've always thought Nissan & infiniti sucked.

A friend of mine bought a Q50 a couple years ago. Got $9k off a $45k MSRP car, hated it, and couldn't sell it for ~$28k just two months later. I recently had a rental QX60 for a trip to Cleveland and can understand why. The infotainment system (which I'm assuming is shared across infiniti) is awful, it had crash avoidance but no proximity sensors for parking (which I don't understand), plus it looks like a minivan. Don't get me wrong for a rental it was great...but I'd never ever ever buy one. The way that the electronics work throughout the vehicle just seem incredibly disjointed. I remember my friend raging when he parked because the auto unlock didn't always work, or was just programmed in a very illogical manner. Driving one of these is not an enjoyable experience..which is bad because it's supposed to be a luxury car.

Most underwhelming vehicles ever. Basically a japanese lincoln....but at least lincoln is trying to turn things around
 
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blakbearddelite

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Yeah, my Q50 depreciated so fast. I bought it used for $25k and it was only two years old, having an MRSP in the low $40k's, I got a little under $16k on my trade and I had it for a little under two years. I only owed another $9k on it, so I was able to roll some equity into the Tiguan.
 

nytebyte

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I was considering the Q60S and still might get a used one, maybe. You can get pre-owned Infiniti's for really good prices and it's a lot of car for the money. There really aren't any cars like the Q60S and Q50S out there for the price you can get them.

I have to agree though, the infotainment system on all Infiniti's I've seen really does suck pretty bad. The screen is tiny and doesn't have very many features. Also, the basic system only comes with a very basic backup camera and that's it. Everything else is an option. It doesn't even have proximity warning when backing up and no blind spot warning. Shit like that is standard on most other non-luxury cars, so they really need to step up their game in this area.
 

FirstWorldProblems

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I think their programming and software just sucks in general. The crash avoidance hit the brakes on me when it shouldn't have, i was passing a semi that was camped out in the passing lane and I had someone else in front of me in the slow lane. I had room, it was a semi-aggressive move but none of the other cars I've driven w/ crash avoidance would have braked on me in that situation. It's like they just threw it in to say they have it...never fine-tuned it

Bluetooth for music and podcasts was OK but it was real spotty with phone calls, like it would occasionally disconnect when you received a call or when you hung up, or when you unplugged the USB (even though it didn't have apple carplay and therefore whether it's plugged in shouldn't matter). I just took calls over my phone's speaker

I'm a pretty minimalist guy when it comes to DD's so I'd buy a Q50 1-2 years old for a bargain DD, but I can see why they don't sell well and they also depreciate terribly.
 

jason05gt

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I own a G37x and it will be the last Infiniti that I buy for a while. Infiniti lost their way about 6-7 years ago when they hired Johan de Nysschen. All he did was mess up the company, like he did with Cadillac. Infiniti used to be a legitimate competitor to BMW in dynamics and the FM chassis/VQ combo was world class. Infiniti hasn't done much since. Why Infiniti is failing is a combination of things:

1. Outdated Technology: The Infotainment system (InTouch) sucks. The displays are OLD and up until 2020 there was no Carplay/Android Auto integration. Additionally, all of the other luxury brands have digital dashes that look cool. Infiniti is stuck with a small display with analog gauges.

2. Transmission: The VR series motor is great and is arguably the best thing Infiniti has done in the last decade. Unfortunately, Infiniti puts the same slow shifting and poorly programmed 7 speed in the Q50. All other manufactureres are using quick shifting 8/9/10 speeds. Worse yet, Infiniti uses CVT's in a lot of their products which suck!

3. Handling: Infiniti softened their performance image and recent models seem to be duller with less sterring feel and less overall performance. Infiniti's digital steering was a disaster. The Q50 Red Sport is a decent car that's handicaped by this along with shitty run flat tires. Any serious Sports sedan would put wider and sticker rubber under it.

Additionally, Infiniti's AWD system was one of the best on the market almost a decade ago but they've done nothing to updated it. Let's see some modes that alter the AWD for different conditions (wet, snow, launch, track, etc.). Pull some of the tech over from the GTR!

I have read that the newest generation of Pro Pilot (2.0) is supposedly great, but we don't get it here in the US! Infiniti is a confused brand.
 

blakbearddelite

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The transmission was really my only major complaint about the Q50. The car made pretty decent power, and when the computer wasn't fucking up downshifts, it felt pretty damn impressive for a 3.7L. The problem is that way more likely than not, the computer got confused as hell and did not downshift correctly. I would not have been as likely to trade it in had I been in love with the speed of the shifts. More likely than not, the car would disappoint upon heavy acceleration. And it drove me crazy as I know how good it felt when the transmission found the sweet spot.
 
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radioguy6

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I own a G37x and it will be the last Infiniti that I buy for a while. Infiniti lost their way about 6-7 years ago when they hired Johan de Nysschen. All he did was mess up the company, like he did with Cadillac. Infiniti used to be a legitimate competitor to BMW in dynamics and the FM chassis/VQ combo was world class. Infiniti hasn't done much since. Why Infiniti is failing is a combination of things:

1. Outdated Technology: The Infotainment system (InTouch) sucks. The displays are OLD and up until 2020 there was no Carplay/Android Auto integration. Additionally, all of the other luxury brands have digital dashes that look cool. Infiniti is stuck with a small display with analog gauges.

2. Transmission: The VR series motor is great and is arguably the best thing Infiniti has done in the last decade. Unfortunately, Infiniti puts the same slow shifting and poorly programmed 7 speed in the Q50. All other manufactureres are using quick shifting 8/9/10 speeds. Worse yet, Infiniti uses CVT's in a lot of their products which suck!

3. Handling: Infiniti softened their performance image and recent models seem to be duller with less sterring feel and less overall performance. Infiniti's digital steering was a disaster. The Q50 Red Sport is a decent car that's handicaped by this along with shitty run flat tires. Any serious Sports sedan would put wider and sticker rubber under it.

Additionally, Infiniti's AWD system was one of the best on the market almost a decade ago but they've done nothing to updated it. Let's see some modes that alter the AWD for different conditions (wet, snow, launch, track, etc.). Pull some of the tech over from the GTR!

I have read that the newest generation of Pro Pilot (2.0) is supposedly great, but we don't get it here in the US! Infiniti is a confused brand.

I also feel renaming everything to "Q" was a huge mistake. The naming convention is super confusing. The old G35/37 was a very well known nameplate.

I still like my Q50 red sport, despite the shortfalls. I did ditch the run flats for Pilot A/S3+. I have 1 more year in my lease, but this will probably be my last Infiniti too.
 

cacicgtp7

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No CarPlay - No Infiniti.

How is that possible when Nissan has it?

I test drove a Q50S Red Sport before I was leasing my continental. It was super loud on the highway, let in a ton of road noise, and I didn't like the feedback of the steering. Infotainment obviously sucked. Was a rocket off the line though, and had advanced safety stuff.
 

jason05gt

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The transmission was really my only major complaint about the Q50. It had pretty decent power, and when the computer wasn't fucking up downshifts, it felt pretty damn impressive for a 3.7L. The problem is that way more likely than not, the computer got confused as hell and did not drop downshift timely. I would not have been as likely to trade it in had I been in love with the speed of the shifts. More likely than not, the car would disappoint upon heavy acceleration. And it drove me crazy as I know how good it felt when the transmission found the sweet spot.

I agree. That dotard that Infiniti hired is a one trick pony. His plan goes like this-He gets hired, then moves the HQ, and then shuffles around names/branding. He did the same thing at Cadillac! Both brands are struggling. VW just hired him back.

Regarding the trasmission-It's laziness on Infiniti's part. Infiniti knows about the issue and has put out numerous TSB's.
 

YoushallgoFo

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Infiniti kind of has an identity issue right now. It used to not be that hard to beat bmw and mb at their own game by simply using nissan parts and some good styling. But the German brands are not what they were 15 years ago. Lexus and Acura have done a good job separating from the comp with interesting flagships and performance lines. Infiniti is still sort of lagging behind in their line up. The m45/q70 hasn't been redesigned in 8 or 9 years.
 

SpeedSpeak2me

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I've got an '12 G37xS coupe and part of me likes that I bought it (used), the other half thinks it was a bad decision. I was putting a lot of miles on my truck and going through a lot of fuel doing 1000+ mile road trips. Wanted something better for highway cruising so got the '12 back in 2016 and saved over $20k from sticker. Handles well since I also did the Pilot A/S 3+, but understeers a bit much at times. Nothing that a bit more throttle doesn't cure. However my biggest complaints, besides the lackadaisical infotainment system are the lousy mileage, super small trunk, and the road/wind noise. They just didn't use enough sound insulation in the car. It's just as noisy as my 07 Silverado going down the highway that's rolling on 265/65-18's wrapped in AT's.

Really could use some DoD on the engine for highway cruising. The drag coefficient is low enough to reduce cylinder firing while holding 75-80mph on flat ground. Could get the mileage closer to 30mpg with that. Right now, at that speed, I'll get 22-23 on the highway which is only 5-6mpg better than my "aerodynamic-as-a-brick" truck that weighs 1000lbs more. So it turned out to not be all that great of a GT car that I had wanted. I compared the Lexus RC's to mine and they're not any better in terms of mileage and storage, however they do have the 5.0 v-8.

Granted a friend has a 2015 Q40 Sedan and he'll turn 25+mpg holding 80mph+ on the highway, getting over 500 miles a tank (both have 20gal tanks). Same engine/trans as my G37. Only differences are coupe vs. sedan and I have the sport edition 19x8.5" wheels and he has the factory 17's.

Oh and the trip computer lies about overall mileage, it's a bit optimistic vs. real world numbers (tracked via Fuelly).
 

jason05gt

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I've got an '12 G37xS coupe and part of me likes that I bought it (used), the other half thinks it was a bad decision. I was putting a lot of miles on my truck and going through a lot of fuel doing 1000+ mile road trips. Wanted something better for highway cruising so got the '12 back in 2016 and saved over $20k from sticker. Handles well since I also did the Pilot A/S 3+, but understeers a bit much at times. Nothing that a bit more throttle doesn't cure. However my biggest complaints, besides the lackadaisical infotainment system are the lousy mileage, super small trunk, and the road/wind noise. They just didn't use enough sound insulation in the car. It's just as noisy as my 07 Silverado going down the highway that's rolling on 265/65-18's wrapped in AT's.

Really could use some DoD on the engine for highway cruising. The drag coefficient is low enough to reduce cylinder firing while holding 75-80mph on flat ground. Could get the mileage closer to 30mpg with that. Right now, at that speed, I'll get 22-23 on the highway which is only 5-6mpg better than my "aerodynamic-as-a-brick" truck that weighs 1000lbs more. So it turned out to not be all that great of a GT car that I had wanted. I compared the Lexus RC's to mine and they're not any better in terms of mileage and storage, however they do have the 5.0 v-8.

Granted a friend has a 2015 Q40 Sedan and he'll turn 25+mpg holding 80mph+ on the highway, getting over 500 miles a tank (both have 20gal tanks). Same engine/trans as my G37. Only differences are coupe vs. sedan and I have the sport edition 19x8.5" wheels and he has the factory 17's.

Oh and the trip computer lies about overall mileage, it's a bit optimistic vs. real world numbers (tracked via Fuelly).

I get 19 MPG average in my G37X. It's a combination of the VQ being thirsty and gear in my opinion. The coefficient of drag is pretty low on these cars.

If you want to reduce understeer, swap out the puny rear sway bar that comes on the X models and swap in a 370z RSB. It really made a considerable difference in my car.
 

SpeedSpeak2me

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I get 19 MPG average in my G37X. It's a combination of the VQ being thirsty and gear in my opinion. The coefficient of drag is pretty low on these cars.

If you want to reduce understeer, swap out the puny rear sway bar that comes on the X models and swap in a 370z RSB. It really made a considerable difference in my car.
Yeah, I read about folks using the 370Z's RSB, and I might look into it, along with the IPL exhaust. Rather not throw any more money at it though. For the understeer it is mostly predictable, so when the front end starts to push and the passenger(s) begin to freak out I just give it more gas to bring the rear end around. As long as the TSC doesn't engage you'll be fine. The AWD is only on 100% from 0-20mph or so, or when the TSC activates. Even if you turn it off, the TSC still partially engages. You have to disable the yaw control that's buried in the center console.
 

SpeedSpeak2me

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Too bad about the road noise. Those A/S3+ are a quiet tire, too.
I do like them. They're better than the Falken Pro G4 A/S pieces of crap that were on the car when I got it. Even with 90% tread life they were shit scary in the rain and horrific in the snow. I don't get how they get such good reviews. My rear-right shredded itself on I-65 in Indiana coming through a construction zone. It was about 1am on a Sunday night and had to use the spare to drive a good 200 miles back home. The rubber on the spare was new, so that was good (and it is a mighty fine looking wheel). But I took the backroads home. One, cause of the speed rating being only 50mph, and two, I-65 just shredded a tire, wasn't about to let it shred my spare and leave me stranded. I despise I-65, for many reasons.

Before I got the Pilot A/S 3+ I was also considering the Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06 tires, as they're very close in ratings, with the Pilot's being just a bit better. In hindsight I probably should have gotten the Continentals. The Sport edition has a firmer ride along with firmer seats, combined with the thinner profile on the 19's means you feel a lot of the road in your ass, which gets really tiring after a few hundred miles. The Continental's have a slightly softer sidewall that probably would have helped a bit, without compromising handling unless you get above that 85-90% of pushing it.

If I keep the car long enough to wear out the Michelin's I'll get the Continentals next.
 

torquelover

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It really is a shame what's happened to Infiniti. They made truly excellent cars in the 90's.

I had two G20's. Parents had an M30 and a Q45. The Q was an animal back in the day, taking down current Vettes, 350 F bodies, and Foxes from a roll.

My sister dumped her FoST for whatever the G37 is called nowadays. The infotainment is terrible apparently.
 
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radioguy6

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nissans in the 90s were very well made. I had a 95 altima I beat the ever piss out of, and then sold it to my sister who beat on it even more. Just kept going. But the over-engineering put them almost in bankruptcy in the late 90s. They have been down this road before.

For sways, look into Stillen sway bars too. Many suspension components on the Z transfers over to the G. The VQs were never good on gas, my old G35 with the 5AT got 17-18mpg city.

My red sport gets decent mileage. 20mpg average in sport+ mode daily.
 

radioguy6

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I understand the hate, it is clunky and slow and sometimes freezes requiring restarting the car. The navigation map is the same one from 2005. They just only added android auto/carplay for the 2020 models when cheaper Nissan cars already have it. Additionally, the new Maxima now has more tech than the Q50. It is a little embarrassing for a Japanese manufacturer to be so behind on tech, especially on their premium products.
 
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