YouTube 1. I had no idea Teslas weighed so much 2. Here is one going 10.4
- Thread starter Mook
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One thing to consider - ICE pays heavy taxes on gasoline and the politicians want to add an additional tax to that as well.
ICE also doesn't get cash back from buying an EV (We get MFG rebates or discounts off of MSRP), but, buying certain ICE cars, we pay a pricey gas guzzler tax too (IIRC I paid over $1,500 for my previous Mustang) as well as my Durango.
ICE also doesn't get cash back from buying an EV (We get MFG rebates or discounts off of MSRP), but, buying certain ICE cars, we pay a pricey gas guzzler tax too (IIRC I paid over $1,500 for my previous Mustang) as well as my Durango.
If we're talking about taxes paid into the gas fund, we'd have to subsidize large SUV owners. My Escalade pays tons of fuel tax compared the Cruze as it gets half the economy. The debate is silly. No one here seems capable if clearly defining facts and using math to keep the discussion accurate.
The average diver uses 500 gallons per year (google). The gas tax in Illinois is .19/gal. This amounts to $95 per year collected per car in gas tax. That's the number that matters and puts in context the discussion.
Facts:
1. We do not tax high mpg vehicles extra. An eco gas vehicle is probably paying $50/year.
2. This discussion has been framed in Tesla vehicles being too expensive. That's true, they currently cost more meaning they pay more for registration and sales tax. 10 years gas tax is $950 or 15k in in vehicle purchase price. Average vehicle cost is 34k in the US. Average Tesla cost is way more than 49k (15+34)
3. There are dozens of ways in which EVs cost society less than ICE vehicles. Another is fires. U.S. fire departments respond to 150,000 vehicle fires per yer. An average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage. Teslas catch fire at a drastically lower rate than ICE vehicles. In fact this figure alone would save the US 400M+ annually (if we all drove Teslas) equal to the gas tax paid by 420,000 ICE cars.
In fact a narrow study by M.J. Bradley & Associates indicates billions in savings from EV adoption with nearly half going to society as a whole and the other half directly to EV owners.
The average diver uses 500 gallons per year (google). The gas tax in Illinois is .19/gal. This amounts to $95 per year collected per car in gas tax. That's the number that matters and puts in context the discussion.
Facts:
1. We do not tax high mpg vehicles extra. An eco gas vehicle is probably paying $50/year.
2. This discussion has been framed in Tesla vehicles being too expensive. That's true, they currently cost more meaning they pay more for registration and sales tax. 10 years gas tax is $950 or 15k in in vehicle purchase price. Average vehicle cost is 34k in the US. Average Tesla cost is way more than 49k (15+34)
3. There are dozens of ways in which EVs cost society less than ICE vehicles. Another is fires. U.S. fire departments respond to 150,000 vehicle fires per yer. An average of 209 civilian deaths, 764 civilian injuries, and $536 million in direct property damage. Teslas catch fire at a drastically lower rate than ICE vehicles. In fact this figure alone would save the US 400M+ annually (if we all drove Teslas) equal to the gas tax paid by 420,000 ICE cars.
In fact a narrow study by M.J. Bradley & Associates indicates billions in savings from EV adoption with nearly half going to society as a whole and the other half directly to EV owners.
Another reason the 'debate' is one of pure stupidity:
According to the Illinois Economic Policy Institute, $6.8 billion in transportation funds was diverted by Illinois' legislature between FY02 to FY15 in order to plug budget deficits in non-transportation related areas.
The 'gas taxes' don't even get used for roads. They are just taxes, pure and simple. Meaning the roads don't require maintaining at the value people pretend them needed to be.
According to the Illinois Economic Policy Institute, $6.8 billion in transportation funds was diverted by Illinois' legislature between FY02 to FY15 in order to plug budget deficits in non-transportation related areas.
The 'gas taxes' don't even get used for roads. They are just taxes, pure and simple. Meaning the roads don't require maintaining at the value people pretend them needed to be.
According to zoomer, this is an issue that's going to pop up quickly as there's going to be an onslaught of EV's on the roads.
Being serious, this is a problem that will need to be solved.
Do you live in Illinois? Our roads are just as shitty as the politicians in Springfield.
FACT: The national infrastructure is in need of funding.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/09/engineers-give-americas-infrastructure-a-near-failing-grade.html
https://www.sj-r.com/news/20180328/report-poor-roads-cost-illinois-drivers-16-billion-per-year
This might be the only reason I would buy an older car. I fear how they are going to track yearly mileage on vehicles.
Let me explain how this works.
It has nothing to do with how many Tesla's are on the road. Stats don't work that way. They don't look at total fires and say 'how many of them are teslas'. They look at total miles driven. So to illustrate this in a fashion that I hope people can understand. For every 1 billion miles that Teslas drive, 5 of them catch on fire. For every 1 billion miles than ICE vehilces drive 55 of them catch fire. This figure doesn't change based on how many Teslas are on the road.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/us/florida-deadly-accident-louisiana-church/index.html
This tragedy would not exist in an electric world. Happened just today and happens every day.
batteries are heavy. this makes it even more beneficial for an EV to seek weight reduction via other technologies and materials, ie. most of the i3 and i8 is structurally carbon fiber, although i read they were not going to continue that on their next model. i thought a bunch of research went into just tesla's wheels as well. i wonder how positively/negatively you can effect the car by swapping to different ones.
fyi if someone is truly interested in being green - simply driving an older car, maintaining it, and driving it into the ground is one of the greenest options available.
it's not my logic, it's the government logic. they are collecting money via gas taxes from me for road use. i'm not saying that is right or wrong. i am saying you and i are using the road similarly, if they are going to tax me for it, they should sure as fuck tax you for it. i'll agree with you that your ev registration should disappear if you agree with me that my gas tax should disappear.
i can agree on that point, but does that even factor in to them redoing the road? point is still the same, if there's a road use fee then we both should be paying for it, not just one of us.
i don't know how you are defining "common" here or how common this particular problem is along the many other surface conditions that could lead to an accident.
i don't disagree but that's rather far and away from a road use tax is it not? we are talking about your EV registration tax being unfair and you have to go out to roadways causing more pollution and public health problems as a justification for... you not having to pay for it?
what about all the cobalt that went into your batteries sourced from the congo by people in complete shit conditions? did you pay fairly for both their labor as well as their health costs? you are having to do an awful lot of mental gymnastics to conclude that only ICE commuters should pay for any type of road use tax which you should get to escape. let's not forgot this amount here pales in comparison to the direct many thousands of dollars that taxpayers subsidized for your luxury car purchase.
OMG, I had to read this twice because I couldn't believe it the first time.
at::roflwtf:
OMG, I had to read this twice because I couldn't believe it the first time.
wait wwhy?
BUT ZOMG TECHNOLOGY DOESNT EFFECT BATTERYS DERRRRRRRRRR!!!
You mean the Obama expressway? Obama is ruining the commute? Thanks Obama.
But yeah, I took the family to a show in Champagne and took 55 down, and my god how I was surprised to see how much it was built up near the edge of the highway and how busy it was even almost an hour south.
Whats even funnier is IIRC the posted weight is dry weight. You have to then add the weight of all the fluids. Including gas. The Explorer has an 18.6? gallon tank and multiply that by 6 pounds per gallon, and you are at 111 pounds. Plus all your other fluids. So the weight isnt that much different.
Just saw this and figured this might stoke the fires in here.
"Consumer Reports is pulling its recommendation of Tesla Model 3, citing reliability issues with the car."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/21/tech/consumer-reports-tesla-model-3/index.html
"Consumer Reports is pulling its recommendation of Tesla Model 3, citing reliability issues with the car."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/21/tech/consumer-reports-tesla-model-3/index.html
Also...
Tesla cuts jobs to offset Model 3 cost
Tesla plans to reduce its workforce by 7% as it works to increase Model 3 production and cut prices.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business....cnn-business/video/playlists/business-tesla/
Tesla cuts jobs to offset Model 3 cost
Tesla plans to reduce its workforce by 7% as it works to increase Model 3 production and cut prices.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/business....cnn-business/video/playlists/business-tesla/
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