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Old 06-21-2019, 08:48 PM   #1
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Default Tech giant wars are here

Project Veritas has another video coming out next week. They talk to insiders at the tech giants. These are companies like google, twitter, facebook, youtube, pinterest, IM, etc.

Bills have been introduced in Congress that would stop the tech giants from censoring speech they don't like. That's an oversimplification but it's factual, IMO. It's turning into a war in the courts and in Congress.

Currently, the tech giants are protected from being sued by anyone wronged in one of the videos/comments/pics on their sites. They want to keep that protection and also be the deciders of which submissions are OK and which should be censored. They can't do both legally, IMO.

A new law is proposed that would force them to allow legal, first amendment protected content or prove their Algorithms and personnel are being fair with any censorship. Proving that would be tough so the end result would be the tech giants would be forced to follow the 1st amendment's rules on free speech. Good.



Tim Pool covers the situation more extensively. This is your 1st amendment rights in question here, guys. If you post something that the tech giants don't like will it get censored? Will you get a strike? Will you be banned? The tech giants, IMO, started censoring with far right activists and have now moved on to mainstream creators including some from the left. Political leanings seem to be in play with what is censored and what isn't.

The argument is they are private companies and can do what they want.

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Old 06-21-2019, 10:58 PM   #2
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Currently, the tech giants are protected from being sued by anyone wronged in one of the videos/comments/pics on their sites. They want to keep that protection and also be the deciders of which submissions are OK and which should be censored. They can't do both legally, IMO.
so you think youtube should be able to be sued over what someone does in a video they host?

or you think the government should be able to come in and tell a private business what videos they can or cannot host?

what do you mean can't do both legally? they already are doing both legally.

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This is your 1st amendment rights in question here, guys.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

what part of that are you claiming means i have a right to host my video on youtube or facebook?

Congress shall make no law...

yet you seem to be calling for congress to make a law that lets them decide what can or cannot be hosted in a private video site.

by what logic would you even base this on? that it is in public interest for the government to have a greater ability to regulate media? gee, government having greater control over media, what could go wrong there...
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:03 PM   #3
 
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Support alternative sources if you don't like what a company provides you.

This shit shouldn't be this hard.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:16 PM   #4
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The tech giants buy or crush any competitors that look like they are gaining traction. FB is already hiring anti-trust lawyers in preparation for future lawsuits.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:26 PM   #5
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there's an alternative for everything and demands for alternatives too. also decentralized versions at that ie. dtube is one for video.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:29 PM   #6
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so you think youtube should be able to be sued over what someone does in a video they host?

or you think the government should be able to come in and tell a private business what videos they can or cannot host?

what do you mean can't do both legally? they already are doing both legally.



Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

what part of that are you claiming means i have a right to host my video on youtube or facebook?

Congress shall make no law...

yet you seem to be calling for congress to make a law that lets them decide what can or cannot be hosted in a private video site.

by what logic would you even base this on? that it is in public interest for the government to have a greater ability to regulate media? gee, government having greater control over media, what could go wrong there...
The tech giants have reached the point where they are the forums for social media. They're like the electric companies in how much they control. Imagine if the electric company told you you couldn't have electricity because they don't agree with what you say? This issue was discussed years ago and the tech companies were supposed to play fair in return for their no lawsuit advantage.

Did you watch the Pool video? Tim Pool is a smart guy and I find myself agreeing with him most of the time. He's liberal but understands how the country works.

Or, just wait for Monday and see what Project Veritas reveals.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:41 PM   #7
 
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Or you know you could literally host your own videos on your own server or on Azure or AWS and get your message across also if you are that worried about being censored.
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Old 06-22-2019, 12:04 AM   #8
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The tech giants have reached the point where they are the forums for social media. They're like the electric companies in how much they control. Imagine if the electric company told you you couldn't have electricity because they don't agree with what you say? This issue was discussed years ago and the tech companies were supposed to play fair in return for their no lawsuit advantage.
this is the social media as a utility argument. where google search is so important to modern life that it's just as important as electricity or water. and at that, so is youtube... and facebook... etc.

which is not an opinion i agree with at all. and i don't blame youtube for people believing the dumb shit you that they do, i blame people's own inability to think or challenge their views vs. just look for things that confirm their bias and ignore away every challenge to them.

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Did you watch the Pool video? Tim Pool is a smart guy and I find myself agreeing with him most of the time. He's liberal but understands how the country works.

Or, just wait for Monday and see what Project Veritas reveals.
i respect and like tim pool. i didn't watch the video as i'm doing other stuff. i don't think there is anything that could convince me that youtube needs to host anything it doesn't want to, or that it would be a good thing for the government to be the one that decides what can and cannot be hosted. i think one argument out there is that by choosing a video to not host, that youtube would go from a platform to a publisher, but youtube is not commissioning or editing etc. the work of its content creators, who are simply using it as a platform to converse with eachother and you and me. so i don't really buy this argument.

i don't really expect welcoming the government in to work out in the long term either. even the people who would welcome it today would probably look back in 10 20 years from now and say oh noesss, i didn't mean to regulate it like that.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:07 AM   #9
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Tim Pool says he expects his youtube channel to be shut down. It has already been censored for an article he did on Pinterest.

Do you guys think Tim Pool is a far right radical? Youtube seems to think so.

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Old 06-22-2019, 10:54 AM   #10
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Ok go use the dozen of other uncensored sites or make timpool.com

Everyone bitches, yet continues to use those services like others don't exist.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:55 AM   #11
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If anything it's an internet education problem. People don't understand internet 101.
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Old 06-22-2019, 12:08 PM   #12
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I get what you guys are saying about posting on alternative sites. Problem is consumers aren't on those alternative sites. You want 10K+ views for your monetized videos, you'd better be on youtube.

A lot of the creators do post on alternative sites and their own sites as well but the majority of income is still generated through tech giant sites.

Even worse, say one of the alt. sites does grow a following to the point it's making decent money for creators from ads and traffic. Google, FB or another tech giant sees this growth and buys the site. That makes them more money and eliminates the competition. They import their site rules and the creators are right back where they started.

The answer, at least in America, is for social media providers to follow constitutional guidelines. No discrimination, especially not because the bosses and some of the employees don't like certain speech.

If content is illegal, go ahead and ban it. If it's legal according to the Constitution, leave it alone.

The tech giants don't want to be follow the Constitution the way other businesses and people do in America. They want to be "special" with special immunities. They want to ban people like Tim Pool whose viewpoints they don't agree with.
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:51 PM   #13
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Tim Pool is really hammering this topic.

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Old 06-22-2019, 02:26 PM   #14
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I get what you guys are saying about posting on alternative sites. Problem is consumers aren't on those alternative sites. You want 10K+ views for your monetized videos, you'd better be on youtube.
oh you don't want to just be heard, but paid now too? that is something the government or society owes you? or a private business does? a platform to be heard and paid???

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A lot of the creators do post on alternative sites and their own sites as well but the majority of income is still generated through tech giant sites.
so how much of your news/education do you get from newspapers or sites you pay for as a consumer? how many of these content creators patreons do you support and pay for? how many non-fiction books do you pay for and read (or at least pick up from the library)?

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Even worse, say one of the alt. sites does grow a following to the point it's making decent money for creators from ads and traffic. Google, FB or another tech giant sees this growth and buys the site. That makes them more money and eliminates the competition. They import their site rules and the creators are right back where they started.
maybe - but that doesn't really seem to be happening. there are still plenty of sites that will host your video and as i noted before you can use dtube which is decentralized and you can't really "buy it". as others note you can even start your own. there is nothing to stop me from handing out dvds of my documentary content or making my own videos and hosting them all sorts of ways on the internet. your challenge might be scaling and costs, but you're unlikely to even have that [good] problem anyway, because you'd need something interesting to say in the first place. with cloud usage you can also do this stuff more easily than ever. aws has tutorials on hosting and scaling your own videos.

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The answer, at least in America, is for social media providers to follow constitutional guidelines. No discrimination, especially not because the bosses and some of the employees don't like certain speech.
the constitution was made for the government - not for youtube and facebook. they owe you fucking dick beyond what you both agreed upon in their terms of service, which didn't include access to their platform for life as a human right.

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If content is illegal, go ahead and ban it. If it's legal according to the Constitution, leave it alone.
mook has banned people on tcg. let's pretend one was an outright tcg uber racist spewing hate speech who we all thought is a dick. guess mook is publisher now as he chose to censor that account! so if i say something defamatory about you that causes you injury, like a 50% loss in business, you should be able to sue me - and mook as well, after all, he let the publishing of my comment take place. right? he failed to provide you a safe space and censor my defamatory post as well.

or since the hate speech is constitutionally protected, the government should force mook to adhere to 1a rights, and mook must spend his own time and money on his private website to give a voice and platform to this racist, because the 1A doesn't just say that the government must let a racist speak, but that mook must also pay for and provide a platform for him to spout his racist, but legal, remarks?

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The tech giants don't want to be follow the Constitution the way other businesses and people do in America.
businesses and people don't follow the 1A. again:

Congress shall make no law...

Quote:
They want to be "special" with special immunities. They want to ban people like Tim Pool whose viewpoints they don't agree with.

If you guys want a tyrannical regime in America composed of the elite, who control the media and the government, with the rest of the people being serfs like in a feudal society, this is how it starts. Censorship is wrong. Period.
they aren't "special" but they are different. facebook is not the atlantic and youtube is not commonwealth edison.

to me, you sound just the same as some mommy blogger complaining her favorite anti-vax channel got delisted because she was suggesting all you need to combat measles are essential oils, and she sells lavender for only $19.99.

i don't know where half your ideas come from, but i am sympathetic to content creators losing out at youtube whether humor [h3h3] or political [tim, who i don't think has lost yet] - but that doesn't change the fact that i believe youtube owes them absolutely nothing at all.

and if you want the real good truth, you have to research it and earn it or pay for it yourself. it's not going to be in the shitty cherry picked meme making fun of obama passed around or in some 2 minute out of context and edited video about some politician doing something stupid who you already think is a total moron. it is probably not even in a video at all but in a book or weeks of thinking and researching yourself.

if it is in a video, it's certainly one worth paying for, is it not? i mean you are not even talking about amusing entertaining videos here, but supposed truth you can only find from these alternative sources, but you wouldn't pay $3 a month for that? instead, you think the solution is for the government to force a private business to live by what it decides should/not be hosted, so you can have your human right to watch said truthful video for free - after a short intro from squatty potty?
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Old 06-22-2019, 02:44 PM   #15
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If you don't understand where this one sided censorship can lead, I will just have to assume you are either a sheep and already brainwashed or someone who doesn't care and who will be shocked when the increasing lack of freedom encroaches on your own personal life. Defend your slightly wacky neighbor or they may come for you next.
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:04 PM   #16
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If you don't understand where this one sided censorship can lead, I will just have to assume you are either a sheep and already brainwashed or someone who doesn't care and who will be shocked when the increasing lack of freedom encroaches on your own personal life. Defend your slightly wacky neighbor or they may come for you next.
i understand the issue and gave you my thoughts based on my principles which reach the same conclusion whether someone i dislike or like is a victim of youtube or facebook policies.

i think your worry of "where censorship will lead" is even more people "brainwashed" in your view, but i consider your version of brainwashed as "disagreeing with flyn" and i don't think you are good at understanding and evaluating information anyway. ie. you're like an alternative sheep.

if tim pool is outright banned 100% completely by youtube, he already has ways available to him to disseminate his content, and you consume it, with no new law or government intervention required.
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:52 PM   #17
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After Tim Pool is banned, who's next? If censorship is allowed to keep growing on the sites that control 98% of social media, eventually the sites will be preaching their way of life to the masses who subscribe to them with nobody saying anything contrary. Talk about brainwashing. It will be like the colleges are now but worse.

That's damned scary to me. It was scary to our founding fathers too. That's why our government is based on a document that protects free speech and press.
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:33 PM   #18
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After Tim Pool is banned, who's next? If censorship is allowed to keep growing on the sites that control 98% of social media, eventually the sites will be preaching their way of life to the masses who subscribe to them with nobody saying anything contrary. Talk about brainwashing. It will be like the colleges are now but worse.

That's damned scary to me. It was scary to our founding fathers too. That's why our government is based on a document that protects free speech and press.
Or people will leave the platforms once they see it happening and other sites will grow.

Remember Myspace? Once Facebook starts shutting more people out, the more people will leave the platform
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:36 PM   #19
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I hope you guys are right.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people are gullible sheep and they'll stay and get indoctrinated into the progressive left.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:04 PM   #20
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Update: Daniel Negreanu had one of his WSOP vlog videos pulled by youtube.

They said he linked to an illegal poker site. He didn't. It was a short clip of the legal WSOP site in Vegas.

Pool censored, Negreanu censored. Who will it be tomorrow?

Check out Negreanu's latest video and let me know if you think content like this should be removed. I think youtube is getting crazy with some of the videos they are pulling. Project Veritas, a legitimate news organization had their video pulled when they investigated Pinterest and the tech giants didn't like it.

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Old 06-22-2019, 11:11 PM   #21
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After Tim Pool is banned, who's next?
you say this as if there is some point you think i will care or change my opinion. they can ban everyone but jenna marbles for all i care. or they can just ban every alternative commentator. and? so what? your worry is that the sheep will never wake up, without access to these alternatives.

but just because they don't think like you, doesn't mean they are sheep. and, consider the possibility, you might just be a sheep of a different color anyway. listening to alternative sources doesn't make you any more aware of what is going on, there are countless examples of alternative providers who are as shitty if not shittier than mainstream media and news and commentary.

the alternative creators will still have ways to spread their message and you will have ways to consume it. you are acting as if they have the human right to post on youtube and you the right to consume it there for free. how is that not ridiculous?

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If censorship is allowed to keep growing on the sites that control 98% of social media, eventually the sites will be preaching their way of life to the masses who subscribe to them with nobody saying anything contrary. Talk about brainwashing. It will be like the colleges are now but worse.

That's damned scary to me. It was scary to our founding fathers too. That's why our government is based on a document that protects free speech and press.
you keep referring to the document that says "don't fuck with the press" as somehow saying "do fuck with youtube" - by what twisted logic are you even connecting these together?

the amendment, like most american political philosophy, obliges inaction - it simply states the government should not get in the way. i can say terrible things about the country, or the president, or groups of people, or burn a flag, and the government is obligated to do nothing at all. government is in fact obligated to protect me if i'm doing these things and you try to assault me for doing so.

youtube banning some people isn't scary to me. adults who operate at the surface level of meme politics is what you should find scary. that today alone a zillion people saw, shared, and believed some red/blue meme on facebook that was oversimplified misrepresented bullshit, but that's as deep as they go into politics, and that these people vote. steven crowder getting demonetized or banned doesn't scare me, that some 30 40 50 60 year old believes and shares bullshit content because they are intellectually lazy and it reinforces their core beliefs / confirms their bias scares me. that 9 out of 10 people will think they are educated on some topic from some 2 minute video rather than a book that would take 2 days to read scares me. making sure tim pool can be seen on youtube doesn't fix that.

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I hope you guys are right.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people are gullible sheep and they'll stay and get indoctrinated into the progressive left.
you say this as if there are not an army of gullible suckers behind infowars or foodbabe or [pick your alternative champion and insert here].

why are you so sure you are not the gullible one? you embrace trump, the strong man populist. you will find the vast majority of my posts when i criticize something, i am criticizing a policy. you on the other hand blame poors, or liberals, or mexicans, etc.

you are a member of the citizenry embracing the strong man and his rhetoric, ready and willing to blame The Other for whatever problems we are dealing with. could a terrible despotic leader ask for any better citizen than that? this way of thinking didn't just have people standing idly by as horrible leaders have risen throughout history, but enthusiastically applauding for them the whole way.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:41 PM   #22
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you say this as if there is some point you think i will care or change my opinion. they can ban everyone but jenna marbles for all i care. or they can just ban every alternative commentator. and? so what? your worry is that the sheep will never wake up, without access to these alternatives.

but just because they don't think like you, doesn't mean they are sheep. and, consider the possibility, you might just be a sheep of a different color anyway. listening to alternative sources doesn't make you any more aware of what is going on, there are countless examples of alternative providers who are as shitty if not shittier than mainstream media and news and commentary.

the alternative creators will still have ways to spread their message and you will have ways to consume it. you are acting as if they have the human right to post on youtube and you the right to consume it there for free. how is that not ridiculous?
The youtube and other tech giant censorship and bans started with far right activists. Then they progressed to moderate right activists and news programs. Now they have continued to Tim Pool, who says he is a moderate Democrat/Libertarian and Daniel Negreanu who is pretty far left with his views. Disagree with anything that youtube and the progressive left believe and you might be next.



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you keep referring to the document that says "don't fuck with the press" as somehow saying "do fuck with youtube" - by what twisted logic are you even connecting these together?

the amendment, like most american political philosophy, obliges inaction - it simply states the government should not get in the way. i can say terrible things about the country, or the president, or groups of people, or burn a flag, and the government is obligated to do nothing at all. government is in fact obligated to protect me if i'm doing these things and you try to assault me for doing so.

youtube banning some people isn't scary to me. adults who operate at the surface level of meme politics is what you should find scary. that today alone a zillion people saw, shared, and believed some red/blue meme on facebook that was oversimplified misrepresented bullshit, but that's as deep as they go into politics, and that these people vote. steven crowder getting demonetized or banned doesn't scare me, that some 30 40 50 60 year old believes and shares bullshit content because they are intellectually lazy and it reinforces their core beliefs / confirms their bias scares me. that 9 out of 10 people will think they are educated on some topic from some 2 minute video rather than a book that would take 2 days to read scares me. making sure tim pool can be seen on youtube doesn't fix that.
You are incorrect here. It's not just government that needs to follow the Constitution. It's the top law in the land. Look at the bakery that just sued a college for civil rights violations and won. $40+ mil. judgment against the college. Look at the other businesses who have done the same thing with not wanting to make cakes for certain groups because of their religious beliefs, etc. If your business discriminates, you can be sued. youtube can't be sued. They have special immunities.

I don't want to censor or stop anyone who is posting legally, according to the laws of our land. The tech giants are doing this right now using that immunity and the fact that they say they are private businesses who can put whatever they deem appropriate on their sites. If you are a business owner, try to get away with the same thing as youtube and you will wind up in court.

Scares me, too, that some people watch a short video and form their opinions. For comparison, I watch what people actually say rather than what they are reported as saying. I watch both sides, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, etc. I also watch both sides of youtube and see the right being censored while the left is allowed to prosper. Why are Antifa and groups like that allowed to continue posting on the tech giant sites while InfoWars, for example, isn't?



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Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
you say this as if there are not an army of gullible suckers behind infowars or foodbabe or [pick your alternative champion and insert here].

why are you so sure you are not the gullible one? you embrace trump, the strong man populist. you will find the vast majority of my posts when i criticize something, i am criticizing a policy. you on the other hand blame poors, or liberals, or mexicans, etc.

you are a member of the citizenry embracing the strong man and his rhetoric, ready and willing to blame The Other for whatever problems we are dealing with. could a terrible despotic leader ask for any better citizen than that? this way of thinking didn't just have people standing idly by as horrible leaders have risen throughout history, but enthusiastically applauding for them the whole way.
I have only been mentioning the tech giants and their progressive left agenda. I haven't said anything about the poor, liberals or Mexicans. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't do that to you.

I watch what Trump does as well as what he says. I criticize him often in the Trump thread. Somehow my criticisms are ignored while my praise is focused on.

What I am concerned about is the loss of freedom in America that I see happening because these tech giants pushed through laws that favor them and did not keep their end of the bargain. There should be no censorship of legal posts for either side. The point that is important to me is whether the posts are legal or illegal. Somebody posts child porn, ban them and remove it. It's illegal. If someone posts their views on politics and they happen to be right wing, why are they banned and their videos removed while sites like Antifa, Vox and Buzzfeed are allowed to post anything they want? It's activism by the tech giants and they should be treated as activists when they act like activists.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Project Veritas posts this week. If it's not on youtube, I'll go to projectveritas.com but I should not have to do so. The tech giants should be recognized as utilities, not private entities.
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:58 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Flyn View Post
The youtube and other tech giant censorship and bans started with far right activists. Then they progressed to moderate right activists and news programs. Now they have continued to Tim Pool, who says he is a moderate Democrat/Libertarian and Daniel Negreanu who is pretty far left with his views. Disagree with anything that youtube and the progressive left believe and you might be next.
i don't understand what point you think you are making here. you keep repeating that it is a slippery slope, and i keep repeating that it doesn't matter. youtube's role is not to guarantee your first amendment right, full stop. no amount of you providing examples of slipping further down the slope changes that.


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You are incorrect here. It's not just government that needs to follow the Constitution. It's the top law in the land.
no i am not. you can censor me all you want. the 1A doesn't apply to you. mook can censor me all he wants on tcg. i will never win a court case against him citing the 1A allows me to be heard.

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Look at the bakery that just sued a college for civil rights violations and won. $40+ mil. judgment against the college.
but this wasn't a 1A issue at all. the government didn't limit anyone's speech. the government did find that damages were caused to the family due to untrue and defamatory speech, and found a judgement for the family to make up for their losses as well set an example to discourage others.

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Look at the other businesses who have done the same thing with not wanting to make cakes for certain groups because of their religious beliefs, etc. If your business discriminates, you can be sued.
but this is much more complicated. the bakery is not responsible for holding up 1A as you charge youtube is. the bakery is sued because it is open to the public for business and saying oh, some people, you can't do business here. and the owners are arguing part of the 1A gives them discretion to discriminate. which civil rights acts, not the 1A, do not allow. and neither will the court, if you want to buy a cake off the shelf. baskin robbins wouldn't win if they refused to sell you a boxed ice cream cake. but the court has made an exception in the case where the business owner needs to provide creative services, saying the business can have an exception to this discrimination law.

i consider those cases much more to do with property rights and discrimination law than i do the 1A.

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youtube can't be sued. They have special immunities.
of course it can, just as any company can be sued. and they have been sued. what youtube can't be sued for is you saying things on it. like if the oberlin college professors spewed their bullshit on youtube videos.

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I don't want to censor or stop anyone who is posting legally, according to the laws of our land. The tech giants are doing this right now using that immunity and the fact that they say they are private businesses who can put whatever they deem appropriate on their sites. If you are a business owner, try to get away with the same thing as youtube and you will wind up in court.
no i wouldn't, not if i was hosting a platform. let's say you spread lies about your local chinese restaurant and you say they put cat in everything. and you saw mice and cockroaches every day there. and a server spit in the food. and you posted about this frequently on tcg and people saw it and their business declined 80%. and all of the stories were found to be untrue. should they be able to sue just flyn, or sue flyn and tcg and mook? why would mook even bother running a forum if he was legally liable for things you put on it?

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Scares me, too, that some people watch a short video and form their opinions. For comparison, I watch what people actually say rather than what they are reported as saying. I watch both sides, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, etc. I also watch both sides of youtube and see the right being censored while the left is allowed to prosper.
not only do both sides often have bullshit from different angles, but you are getting your news from the worst platform available. if you read books, that's one thing, but on tv? they have to cram something in to a 5 minute segment. they have to do it in an entertaining way to keep eyeballs on the screen. and they need to do it between all the ad space they are trying to sell. is this really a good place to get educated about anything? fuck, you can (easily) watch nothing and be better informed than watching 'both sides' and what they put on tv. because no information is often better than misinformation.

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Why are Antifa and groups like that allowed to continue posting on the tech giant sites while InfoWars, for example, isn't?
maybe they won't continue to be, but for one how do you not recognize these are vastly different organizations? it's not like antifa is some single centralized business.

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I have only been mentioning the tech giants and their progressive left agenda. I haven't said anything about the poor, liberals or Mexicans. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't do that to you.
i am talking about the years we have spent together on this forum, not limiting the context to this single thread. i blame policy for problems and you often blame The Other.

would you be so concerned if the tech giants had a right agenda and were eliminating leftists, or would you be celebrating?

your whole angle of this is a completely wrong and losing argument, that we need to do something to stop this progressive left agenda. that's only going too be sweet music to the ears of big government republicans who will ignore and principles and just say yes, left bad, gov must control the youtubes!

the options you have for making real arguments are that these platforms are so important to basic life and survival that the government should regulate them as they do water and electricity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social...public_utility

or you can make the argument that these are not platforms but publishers and should be legally liable for anything on them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectio...ns_Decency_Act

and i keep trying to give you examples, which don't appear to stick, of how treating a platform (like tcg) as a publisher (like wapo) is not a good thing.

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I watch what Trump does as well as what he says. I criticize him often in the Trump thread. Somehow my criticisms are ignored while my praise is focused on.
dude come on, everyone and their mom on this forum knows that when trump said he could shoot someone in the street and and not lose one voter, he was talking about guys like you. i would bet you have seen totally normal and fair critique of trump and claimed d'ohp, that person has TDS! you are not going to be your own best judge of how your praises and criticisms are seen, and you are kidding yourself if you think you are some great centrist or something here.

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What I am concerned about is the loss of freedom in America that I see happening because these tech giants pushed through laws that favor them and did not keep their end of the bargain.
as i have repeatedly shown, the law favors mook as well. let's pretend it wasn't tcg but more realistically you made those defamatory statements on yelp. should the restaurant be able to sue yelp too? does yelp need to employ an army of people to verify every comment made? or should yelp just close its doors?

you seem to be completely ignoring the bigger picture and these fundamental questions - what the 1A does, what this section of a mostly thrown out bill does, whether social media is a utility, whether a place we can discuss thing is a platform or a publisher - you've just taken something [leftists doing something you don't like] and are now just scrambling for any power or justification to "make them do the right thing" and completely ignoring how or why or where that power came from as well as all the other things that can be done with it, which you aren't thinking about, since you just want too force lefty youtube to do what you think is right.

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There should be no censorship of legal posts for either side. The point that is important to me is whether the posts are legal or illegal. Somebody posts child porn, ban them and remove it. It's illegal. If someone posts their views on politics and they happen to be right wing, why are they banned and their videos removed while sites like Antifa, Vox and Buzzfeed are allowed to post anything they want? It's activism by the tech giants and they should be treated as activists when they act like activists.
as we have both used in examples, defamatory statements are legal posts. they are not child porn. 1A absolutely protects defamatory statements. however libel law determines whether untrue defamatory statements have caused injury and the victim is given justice accordingly. you seem to be completely ignoring in the platform vs. publisher model, mook is opened up to being sued for something you or i say.

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I'm looking forward to seeing what Project Veritas posts this week. If it's not on youtube, I'll go to projectveritas.com but I should not have to do so. The tech giants should be recognized as utilities, not private entities.
do you have any argument as to why they should be recognized as utilities, other than that they are doing something you don't like?? you can see the arguments for treating them as such in the wikipedia article, and they're certainly a lot more sophisticated than "they ban infowars but keep up antifa resistance #memphis, so they should be a public utility" - it just seems to be something you didn't really think about and are just deferring to so that you can get an outcome you want.

also, i'm not sure how you've computed in your brain that regulating youtube or facebook as a public utility isn't a lefty thing to do, i would argue it's a very left thing to do - and the only reason any on the right support it is because they are actually experiencing the 'victimhood' here.

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Old 06-23-2019, 01:49 PM   #24
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As I have said many times, it's the censorship I don't like. I would dislike it just as much if the REPS were in control and censoring the left. 1 party or group in complete control leads to tyranny.

The simple point I am making which seems to sail right over your head is the people who control social media and news, control sheeples' minds.
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Old 06-23-2019, 05:03 PM   #25
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As I have said many times, it's the censorship I don't like. I would dislike it just as much if the REPS were in control and censoring the left. 1 party or group in complete control leads to tyranny.

The simple point I am making which seems to sail right over your head is the people who control social media and news, control sheeples' minds.
aside from me not thinking you are really any more politically aware than these sheep -

the point i'm making that you're not getting is:
it's not the government's job to make sure creators have access to a private company's hosting platform.
it's not the government's job to make sure citizens have access to consume content from these creators, particularly on a private platform.
it's not the government's job to make sure you're not a sheep. it's YOURS.
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