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Old 07-07-2016, 10:46 AM   #51
 
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The other issue is that people don't want to let the departments investigate anything, they want these cops strung up in the court of public opinion....

Then even if the DoJ came out and said they wouldn't prosecute because there's not any evidence to substantiate murder, manslaughter, etc. people will go nuts and start rioting and shit.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:47 AM   #52
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Huge grey area for me on this right now until I get more info. But one thing's for certain, I HATE to see any local/federal gov agent take a citizens life. It was 2 on 1, what fucking protocol did the police NOT follow by letting this guy have a free hand? Hands are the first thing you should be controlling.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:53 AM   #53
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Great White Drake View Post
I HATE to see any local/federal gov agent take a citizens life.
Agreed 100%. That's why its easier to comply and not resist arrest to begin with.

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It was 2 on 1, what fucking protocol did the police NOT follow by letting this guy have a free hand? Hands are the first thing you should be controlling.
I'm sure they are going for the hands, it's just not always that easy. He was a big boy, and sure the officers we're small either, but it's not always that easy when people are doing everything in their power to resist.

I remember being at a festival/concert/rave/party (whatever you want to call it) and there was a big guy who apparently took too much of some substance and was FLIPPING out.... I'd say he was 6' tall 250-275 pounds, and it LITERALLY took 6 people to keep him down on the ground until he came back down to Earth. Every 15 minutes or so he would have energy built up and burst like a volcano and it took everything his 6 buddies had to keep him down so he couldn't start breaking shit again.

After seeing that, I have no doubt how hard it is to detain someone who doesn't want you to.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:55 AM   #54
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Just selling CD's? There shouldn't be an issue and police should just ask the guy to move along.

Just selling CD's and threatening people with a gun? Police should be involved and get that guy off the street.

Each situation is unique in my opinion, just as each officer is unique. We cannot paint with these with a broad brush labeling all cops, all black people, etc.....

In my opinion there have been cases of officers with hair triggers and quick use of deadly or excessive force. Police are there to Serve & Protect, not be Judge/Jury/Executioner (not saying that is what happened here).

Citizens should have a general respect for police officers as they do have an extremely difficult job. I think people should know their rights and protest unlawful actions of officers without having to fear for their lives or being maimed.

In my opinion, a man got killed because he was too stupid. If you want to sell CD's fine, you shouldn't get arrested, you shouldn't get shot. If you are threatening people with a gun and the police get called, you best comply or there is a strong chance you end up dead.



DISCLAIMER: I am basing all of my thoughts on the limited knowledge I have from reading this thread and watching the videos.
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:00 AM   #55
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They did have body cameras on in this case. Police chief stated they were dislodged from pointing in a useful direction during the struggle.

But honestly, you have the no hat officer (NHO) pressing upwards on Alton's right bicep, trying to block him from going for his pocket, but Alton pushes past and gets his arm down and hand presumably to his pocket where the gun is. At this point, he's partially under the front of the car, so the cops cannot get to his right arm anymore.

Officer with a hat (OWAH) holding the left arm down, pulls his gun with his own right hand, within 1.5sec of the other officer losing control of the guys right arm and points his pistol into this guys face and upper chest area. The NHO officer draws almost at the same moment and pushes his pistol into the guys chest/lower abdomen - which leaves the OWAH no place to use his left arm in the struggle without risking being in the line of fire himself.

NHO yells "you fucking move I swear to God..." at this point Alton has two guns pointed at him and a struggle to control his left arm is still happening. He also still appears to be trying to sit up.

The final second or two you see Alton picking his head up and looking in the direction of his pocket. One shot is fired by NHO, then two more ring out presumably from the same officer. OWAH gets up and moves away, the camera moves off the struggle while NHO falls over the top of the suspect.

You hear "get on the ground" yelled and three more shots are fired from an unknown source. The camera moves back to Alton who is now bleeding out and moving his head and left arm.

"Fuck" a few seconds go by and OWAH comes in to take the firearm from Alton's pocket.

You can clearly see NHO recover his body camera from the ground by its wire at the end of the struggle.
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:01 AM   #56
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greasy View Post
Just selling CD's? There shouldn't be an issue and police should just ask the guy to move along.

Just selling CD's and threatening people with a gun? Police should be involved and get that guy off the street.

Each situation is unique in my opinion, just as each officer is unique. We cannot paint with these with a broad brush labeling all cops, all black people, etc.....

In my opinion there have been cases of officers with hair triggers and quick use of deadly or excessive force. Police are there to Serve & Protect, not be Judge/Jury/Executioner (not saying that is what happened here).

Citizens should have a general respect for police officers as they do have an extremely difficult job. I think people should know their rights and protest unlawful actions of officers without having to fear for their lives or being maimed.

In my opinion, a man got killed because he was too stupid. If you want to sell CD's fine, you shouldn't get arrested, you shouldn't get shot. If you are threatening people with a gun and the police get called, you best comply or there is a strong chance you end up dead.



DISCLAIMER: I am basing all of my thoughts on the limited knowledge I have from reading this thread and watching the videos.
I just agreed with a post from greasy....



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Old 07-07-2016, 11:04 AM   #57
 
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I just agreed with a post from greasy....



there's a first time for everything...sometimes he spits some sense
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:04 AM   #58
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I spit sense more often then not.
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:06 AM   #59
 
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Tomi Lahren puts it out there.

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Old 07-07-2016, 11:06 AM   #60
 
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Quote:
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I spit sense more often then not.
I'm sure I've agreed with you a ton of times, just wanted to be a troll on that one for some reason...
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:08 AM   #61
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I'm sure I've agreed with you a ton of times, just wanted to be a troll on that one for some reason...
I was going to say, I think we have agreed on most things. But troll on, I like it!
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:11 AM   #62
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Tomi dropping bombs in her take, of course. Can't see immediate motive on a terrorist attack, but can see it instantaneously when its white cops on a black man.

Yikes.
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Old 07-07-2016, 11:12 AM   #63
 
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MY final thought is I need to start watching The Blaze more...
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Old 07-07-2016, 02:39 PM   #64
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a 20 year old dude knocked up a 14 year old girl. That is in no means OK. "she looked older." ok guy
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Old 07-07-2016, 02:48 PM   #65
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Either way, that's not an offense that should put cops on edge resulting in you being shot... I think that's what we're trying to quantify here.
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Old 07-07-2016, 02:49 PM   #66
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Probably true
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Old 07-07-2016, 03:09 PM   #67
 
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Quote:
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a 20 year old dude knocked up a 14 year old girl. That is in no means OK. "she looked older." ok guy
I usually look at his posts as "Well, he's from NWI..."

If you're 20 and banging girls in middle school or freshmen in high school you have some issues there.

If I had a 14 year old daughter and some 20 year old guy knocked her up he would've been dead years ago and the cops wouldn't have been in this situation.
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Old 07-07-2016, 04:55 PM   #68
 
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It's unfortunate that a man was killed. It's unfortunate that a man had to take the life of another man.

In watching the 3rd video posted previously...from that perspective...it appears to me that Sterling's right arm was moving around forcefully and the officers did not have his right arm under control. It's appears to me that part of Sterling's right side of his body is under the front bumper of that vehicle. If I step back from the angle of the video and put myself in the perspective of the cops...on top of Sterling...looking down...where part of Sterling's body and right arm disappear under the bumper of the car. What is Sterling doing with his right hand/are that I can't see in that video? What are those two officers seeing from their vantage point that we can't see from the video? How did Sterling have entry wounds in the back when he is laying on his back? I have more questions than answers. I can't say whether or not it was justified at this point.

There is more speculation than facts at the moment. That's the problem. That's the slippery slope...the danger around these types of incidents.

That leads me to Jesse Jackson. I'm fine with this dude having his opinion. I consider that he might have been emotional yesterday. What I can't accept is this guy stating judgments (and his OPINIONS) as if they are facts! You are nothing without the race issue Jesse. Don't waste an opportunity to fan the flames of division you fucking asshole. You are THE problem.

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Anyway, my 2 cents.
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:17 PM   #69
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Quote:
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It's unfortunate that a man was killed. It's unfortunate that a man had to take the life of another man.

In watching the 3rd video posted previously...from that perspective...it appears to me that Sterling's right arm was moving around forcefully and the officers did not have his right arm under control. It's appears to me that part of Sterling's right side of his body is under the front bumper of that vehicle. If I step back from the angle of the video and put myself in the perspective of the cops...on top of Sterling...looking down...where part of Sterling's body and right arm disappear under the bumper of the car. What is Sterling doing with his right hand/are that I can't see in that video? What are those two officers seeing from their vantage point that we can't see from the video? How did Sterling have entry wounds in the back when he is laying on his back? I have more questions than answers. I can't say whether or not it was justified at this point.

There is more speculation than facts at the moment. That's the problem. That's the slippery slope...the danger around these types of incidents.

That leads me to Jesse Jackson. I'm fine with this dude having his opinion. I consider that he might have been emotional yesterday. What I can't accept is this guy stating judgments (and his OPINIONS) as if they are facts! You are nothing without the race issue Jesse. Don't waste an opportunity to fan the flames of division you fucking asshole. You are THE problem.

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Anyway, my 2 cents.
Did he just say "we know the culture" in this statement at about 2:20? What a prejudiced asshole.
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:24 PM   #70
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Well.....right now with the info, justified but needless imo. So many opportunities for both parties to de-escalate the situation.
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:26 PM   #71
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Those two words don't operate together in a sentence like that, my man.

De-escalation is indeed ideal, but that didn't happen here. But when a person makes the decision to fight against the police and continually makes an effort to get to his firearm before he's shot dead... that's impossible to pin on the police unfortunately.
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:26 PM   #72
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I honestly worry about how much more of this the police can take before they're left with no choice but to be completely passive and allow criminals to run their course and simply not interfere in any way during the course of an incident
I know Chicago cops, it's exactly what happening in the city. "Let the shitheads kill eachother "
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:28 PM   #73
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Those two words don't operate together in a sentence like that, my man.

De-escalation is indeed ideal, but that didn't happen here. But when a person makes the decision to fight against the police and continually makes an effort to get to his firearm before he's shot dead... that's impossible to pin on the police unfortunately.
Justified as self defense, needless because as I said, it shouldn't have escalated to where it did.
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:29 PM   #74
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I know several cops in the suburbs taking the same approach. It's one of the reasons I really wonder how much more they'll take before they refuse to address violent offenders. No one has made it clear to the public what happens when the police take this approach.

At least they're sure not thinking about it.
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Old 07-07-2016, 05:29 PM   #75
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Advice for White Folks in the Wake of the Police Murder of a Black Person

I honestly try to keep an open mind on these topics... but this is the kind of stuff I find when trying to read perspective pieces.
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