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Old 04-23-2013, 04:18 PM   #1
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:38 PM   #2
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:43 PM   #3
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No, you have it all wrong. The people of the Middle East are just jealous of our blue jeans and capitalist ways. They actually don't mind us occupying their lands and blowing up their innocent people in order to carry out our selfish agendas.
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:58 PM   #4
 
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No, you have it all wrong. The people of the Middle East are just jealous of our blue jeans and capitalist ways. They actually don't mind us occupying their lands and blowing up their innocent people in order to carry out our selfish agendas.
The people in Iraq are better off now than they were under Hussein. Had he been left in power, we'd have two countries with hatred towards each other closer to being nuclear powers.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:02 PM   #5
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if you ignore the massive amount of dead iraqis, the massive amount of displaced iraqis, all the remaining problems, having zero to do with bin laden, not actually being close to a nuke and being zero real threat to the US, the lost american treasure and the lost american lives, then i guess you have a point.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:04 PM   #6
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The people in Iraq are better off now than they were under Hussein. Had he been left in power, we'd have two countries with hatred towards each other closer to being nuclear powers.
How ignorant do you have to be to make that statement?
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:09 PM   #7
 
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if you ignore the massive amount of dead iraqis, the massive amount of displaced iraqis, all the remaining problems, having zero to do with bin laden, not actually being close to a nuke and being zero real threat to the US, the lost american treasure and the lost american lives, then i guess you have a point.
How many would have been displaced under the previous regime? You act like Iraq was a “nice place to live”. It wasn’t and there is no doubt that Iraq would have started up programs to keep pace with Iran. Also, remember that Iran also thought that Iraq was developing a nuclear weapon in 2003.

Iran
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:13 PM   #8
 
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How ignorant do you have to be to make that statement?
Ah, the resident Iraqi historian pops in. Pick up a history book. 1-2 million Iraqi's died under Saddam's regime, including ethnic cleansing.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:17 PM   #9
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How many would have been displaced under the previous regime? You act like Iraq was a “nice place to live”. It wasn’t and there is no doubt that Iraq would have started up programs to keep pace with Iran. Also, remember that Iran also thought that Iraq was developing a nuclear weapon in 2003.

Iran
i don't act like iraq was a nice place to live. i act like iraq and iran's problems are for iraq and iran to sort out.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:27 PM   #10
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Why are we caring why terrorists hate us again?
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:31 PM   #11
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Why are we caring why terrorists hate us again?
"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:32 PM   #12
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still required reading for all CIA officers, i believe.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:36 PM   #13
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I understand what you are poking at here. That our foreign policy has led millions of muslims to hate us. And that we should stay out of other people's business. But just last week, a muslim extremist tried to blow up a train in CANADA. Is Canada that involved in the middle east that they hate them for that reason too??? And I agree with you that most hate us due to what we do in the middle east.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:41 PM   #14
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I understand what you are poking at here. That our foreign policy has led millions of muslims to hate us. And that we should stay out of other people's business. But just last week, a muslim extremist tried to blow up a train in CANADA. Is Canada that involved in the middle east that they hate them for that reason too??? And I agree with you that most hate us due to what we do in the middle east.
i can only speculate that they were trying to get away with whatever they could. it would be interesting to know more of their grievances.

How Toronto's Muslim Community Uncovered the Would-Be Train Bombers - Olga Khazan - The Atlantic
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:58 PM   #15
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I have an idea.

1: Glass the whole area
2: Move in with drilling equipment
3: Oil
4: ?????????
5: CONTINUED GAS PRICE GOUGING
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:09 PM   #16
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I have an idea.

1: Glass the whole area
2: Move in with drilling equipment
3: Oil
4: ?????????
5: CONTINUED GAS PRICE GOUGING
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:29 PM   #17
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Ah, the resident Iraqi historian pops in. Pick up a history book. 1-2 million Iraqi's died under Saddam's regime, including ethnic cleansing.
Get a clue.

Iraqis' Views of Their Health Worst in MENA

Opinion Briefing: Discontent and Division in Iraq

Economic Negativity Abounds in Iraq
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:43 PM   #18
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I understand what you are poking at here. That our foreign policy has led millions of muslims to hate us. And that we should stay out of other people's business. But just last week, a muslim extremist tried to blow up a train in CANADA. Is Canada that involved in the middle east that they hate them for that reason too??? And I agree with you that most hate us due to what we do in the middle east.


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Old 04-23-2013, 07:55 PM   #19
 
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Apparently your reading comprehension is poor. I said pre 2003, which is when we displaced the dictatorship ie Saddam. All of the links above are from 2008 onward and do not go back far enough to compare pre/post Saddam.

Like I said, Saddam was one of the worst dictators in recent history.

Could the war have been handled differently.....Certainly
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:01 PM   #20
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Apparently your reading comprehension is poor. I said pre 2003, which is when we displaced the dictatorship ie Saddam. All of the links above are from 2008 onward and do not go back far enough to compare pre/post Saddam.

Like I said, Saddam was one of the worst dictators in recent history.

Could the war have been handled differently.....Certainly
"Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit."
- John Quincy Adams

do not forget we supported that dictator, as we do many others. you and me may have problems with dictators, but the republicans and democrats mentioned in that image do not. us foreign policy in action has shown less to care about how cruel of a dictator you might be and more about your actions in defying or complying with what we say you should do. so let's not pretend we are going around the world ridding it of dictators (assuming we even got past an argument saying that we should.)
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:15 PM   #21
 
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"Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force.... She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit."
- John Quincy Adams

do not forget we supported that dictator, as we do many others. you and me may have problems with dictators, but the republicans and democrats mentioned in that image do not. us foreign policy in action has shown less to care about how cruel of a dictator you might be and more about your actions in defying or complying with what we say you should do. so let's not pretend we are going around the world ridding it of dictators (assuming we even got past an argument saying that we should.)
In my opinion, we should have taken Saddam out during Desert Storm as we had the international community behind us but that's hindsight.
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:01 PM   #22
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Apparently your reading comprehension is poor. I said pre 2003, which is when we displaced the dictatorship ie Saddam. All of the links above are from 2008 onward and do not go back far enough to compare pre/post Saddam.

Like I said, Saddam was one of the worst dictators in recent history.

Could the war have been handled differently.....Certainly
You said pre 2003 in your conversation with sickmint and never with me, so my reading comprehension is just fine.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/0308opinion.pdf

Looking at this poll of the Iraqi public one would think that the there would be an overwhelming feeling of positive things in 2003/2004 right after we removed Saddam. Interestingly enough the majority of opinions remain unchanged or worse over the following 4-5 years.

It is easy for you to say that Iraqi people are better off without Saddam, but who are you or any other American to say that? Since when are you the voice of the Iraqi people? Do you have any data to support your claims from an unbiased source or are you simply spewing what you hear from right wing pundits?

I guess you are missing the bigger picture though. My whole point was that we had no business being in Iraq and have left that region more unstable. Our involvement has NOT served the American public well and made this country a better place.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:04 PM   #23
 
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Technically the USA is a terrorist
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:05 PM   #24
 
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Oh btw. Saddam at least could control his people unlike USA trying to.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:13 AM   #25
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Well this thread went to hell damn fast...

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