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Old 06-24-2018, 07:28 PM   #1
 
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Default Ignition timing on a big block?

Is anyone on here capable and interested in helping me set timing on 66 impala with a 409?

My dad bought this car a while back from a widow of some guy who “restored” it. But turns out he was an alcoholic who really didn’t do much if anything right.


The scenario right now is that the cam timing is set right for a stock cam (Assumed) as we just did it today IMG_1085.jpg. The ignition timing, Is really jacked up and we can’t figure it out. To put it in perspective at idle the timing mark on the balancer is lighting up at 12 o’clock vs 2 o’clock where the timing mark indicator is (hope that makes sense).

Anybody have true knowledge/skill set to help? Or at least point me in the direction of someone who can do it?
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:29 PM   #2
 
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FYI that picture indicates it’s incorrect as the cam timing was off 180 degrees. It was rectified today with a new timing chain set (fucked up two cars in my family had timing chain issues this month lol)
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:44 PM   #3
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409 in 1966? nah.

if cam timing is correct, then set at TDC on #1 cylinder.
- drop distributor in with rotor pointed towards #1 cylinder
- the closest plug wire to where the rotor is lined up is #1 now.
- 18436571 in clockwise direction on the cap from there
- snug up the distributor hold down, but still be able to turn the distributor
- start cranking it and moving shit until it fires, then jump on the light
-depending on specs of the engine, id say 30 degrees advanced(total) would be a good starting point
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:44 PM   #4
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where are you located?
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:22 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by daturbosix View Post
409 in 1966? nah.

if cam timing is correct, then set at TDC on #1 cylinder.
- drop distributor in with rotor pointed towards #1 cylinder
- the closest plug wire to where the rotor is lined up is #1 now.
- 18436571 in clockwise direction on the cap from there
- snug up the distributor hold down, but still be able to turn the distributor
- start cranking it and moving shit until it fires, then jump on the light
-depending on specs of the engine, id say 30 degrees advanced(total) would be a good starting point
Sorry its a 402, dont know why i typed 409 lol.....

The car is in countryside (near la grange), whats weird right now is the rotor is pointing to cylinder 2 and running fine @ idle lol...

We know 0 specs on the engine lol..
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daturbosix View Post
409 in 1966? nah.

if cam timing is correct, then set at TDC on #1 cylinder.
- drop distributor in with rotor pointed towards #1 cylinder
- the closest plug wire to where the rotor is lined up is #1 now.
- 18436572 in clockwise direction on the cap from there
- snug up the distributor hold down, but still be able to turn the distributor
- start cranking it and moving shit until it fires, then jump on the light
-depending on specs of the engine, id say 30 degrees advanced(total) would be a good starting point

Fixed

I’d check and make sure all those wires are in the right place. Also when it’s idling throw a vacuum gauge on it to make sure you have full vacuum and not leaks. It’s also a great way to set a good base timing. Just turn the distributor slowly till you have reached peak vacuum at idle for a good starting point.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:29 AM   #7
 
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I am 99% sure he has done that (he is pretty good with this shit), Ill have him try again but its to a point he just wants to pay some one lol.


Anyone have any recomendations?
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:42 AM   #8
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< this guy
but id prefer it to come to me

also, what kind of ignition are you running? points still, or electronic?
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:57 AM   #9
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Go buy a piston stop and establish TDC. I think the Comp one I have was $15ish.

You probably have a mix of early pointer (which was located at 2:30 or so till 1969) and late balancer (which was located at 12:00.)

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._TDC_lines_SBC

Quote:
The pre-1969 damper has the TDC line on the outer ring at the 2:30 o’clock position- or 2º before the keyway centerline- i.e. the line is to the LEFT of the keyway, looking at the front of the damper or engine. The keyway is seen in the ID of the damper nose. Includes a majority of the 2.30" small journal main engines and the 1967-69 2.45" large journal engines.
The damper used from 1969 to about 1995 (some 1978-86 GM automobiles do not use the 2 o'clock position balancer and associated timing cover where there is some overlap usage e.g. G-series vans which retained the 2 o'clock balancer while the passenger car and C/K light duty trucks transitioned over to the 12 o'clock position which used a centrally located timing pointer spot welded) has the TDC line at the 2 o’clock position- or 10º before the keyway. You'll find that aftermarket dampers are the 10º type, as are the bolt-on tabs sold by the aftermarket, unless they're adjustable. The 2 o'clock position was reintroduced during the 1987 model year trucks with the 8" balancer (only with the LO5-optioned 350/5.7L).
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:02 AM   #10
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he doesnt really have to find "exact TDC". just pull the cover and watch the rockers on #1 to make sure its left on the ignition stroke.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:34 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daturbosix View Post
< this guy
but id prefer it to come to me

also, what kind of ignition are you running? points still, or electronic?
HEI... new distributor.. actually two new distributors lol. . It went to a shop previously (2 shops actually) and they are saying the total advance is around 80 degrees lol.

Where are you at?
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:50 AM   #12
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batavia 60510
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:59 AM   #13
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EIGHTY DEGREES ADVANCED?!

turn that bitch back a tooth or two
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:00 AM   #14
 
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Yeah thats why he is confused as fuuuu lol.... I am going to see if he will adjust the distributor again. But he unfortunately doesn't have a good timing light with advance on it.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:45 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Roboto View Post


Go buy a piston stop and establish TDC. I think the Comp one I have was $15ish.

You probably have a mix of early pointer (which was located at 2:30 or so till 1969) and late balancer (which was located at 12:00.)

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._TDC_lines_SBC
THANK YOU! I am thinking this is why all the numbers are way the eff off. If the pointer and the balancer dont match then no one knows what the fuck is going on lol!

I told him to order a new balancer and pointer and will reply with findings..
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:42 PM   #16
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That key way should be in the 12 o'clock spot. Line cam and crank up dot to dot. Distributor pointing at number 1.


Hard to tell from the pic where the dots are.

TDC 1 both rockers should be loose.
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Old 06-30-2018, 08:33 PM   #17
 
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So disconnecting the vacuum advance puts the timing in normal range... wtf
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
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So disconnecting the vacuum advance puts the timing in normal range... wtf
base timing should always be set with vacuum advance disconnected
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