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Yesterday 05:33 PM
sickmint79 savagegeese take, i think some more to come later

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqxeVxFFnoQ

not now but i could see myself picking it up a few years in the future. after they sort out the weak points on track, figure out how best to use those goodies they left available for the aftermarket to tweak, price of used ones drops a bit, i feel like i'm more ready to advance on past the brz, etc. honestly the car seems great and i think y'all are whining a lot more than is justified at all.

was interesting to see this too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJQo0tZ5Jmg

still having manual is nice. y'all whine about the power but to me this is the biggest real difference and concern to me, supra isn't a fat boy by modern standards, but it is fat compared to the 86. it's kind of awesome how my brakes in particular perform. i occasionally change pads, and fluid, i literally do once a year and probably don't even need to.
Yesterday 12:13 AM
Pressure Ratio
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason05gt View Post
How does the operator manipulate a dynojet beside STD or SAE? I've read and seen videos that Mustang dynos can be manipulated by the operator.
You can Google the different ways. They are not secrets.


But when ever people argue dyno numbers remember this, Mark Dobeck, founder of Dynojet, even has said that they use an "imaginary number" in their formula. This number was to correct their low readings to other dynos of the time. And that they can tailor that "imaginary number" to suit your market. So adjusting a correction factor.


Like Bru stated, there are ways to change dyno numbers due to how they are set up. Even Dynojet dynos.



I said I don't think they went out of their way to fudge the numbers. But the fact that the rwtq was over 100 ft/lbs more than the advertised crank torque should have anyone asking questions.
05-24-2019 05:25 PM
J-LO the wife saw the z4 this week, now she wants one
05-24-2019 11:53 AM
Bru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure Ratio View Post
Either style dyno can be manipulated. So if someone wanted to inflate numbers they could.

Liverniis is a reputable shop. I don't see them messing with the numbers. They have nothing to gain by doing that. But I think something is fishy with the numbers.


I donít think theyíre being deceiving but if they run the car like a usual customer and donít do the time consuming coast down and loss calibrations specific to the car then itís not set up for max accuracy.
05-24-2019 10:49 AM
jason05gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure Ratio View Post
Either style dyno can be manipulated. So if someone wanted to inflate numbers they could.

Liverniis is a reputable shop. I don't see them messing with the numbers. They have nothing to gain by doing that. But I think something is fishy with the numbers.
How does the operator manipulate a dynojet beside STD or SAE? I've read and seen videos that Mustang dynos can be manipulated by the operator.
05-24-2019 10:38 AM
Pressure Ratio Also, 335 crank horse power and only a 10% driveline loss is 300 whp. Not enough for a 3500 pound car to go 113 mph in the quarter. So it is either super efficient or makes more power than advertised. Once production cars hit the track and dyno we will know what's up.
05-24-2019 10:27 AM
Pressure Ratio Either style dyno can be manipulated. So if someone wanted to inflate numbers they could.

Liverniis is a reputable shop. I don't see them messing with the numbers. They have nothing to gain by doing that. But I think something is fishy with the numbers.
05-24-2019 08:52 AM
jason05gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru View Post
You know more than most that a single dyno test means shit. Calibration, coast down, weather correction are all things that can inflate the number. I had a car dynoíd for work and got crank numbers at the wheel, then went to Mustang and asked for clarification, and they said operator error, who then re-ran the test with parameters from Mustang and we got a normal 15 percent loss at the wheels.
True and Mustang dynos can be manipulated. I only trust Dynojet's as there seems to be less variation, but at the end of the day they are really a tuning tool and for bragging rights.
05-24-2019 08:27 AM
Bru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressure Ratio View Post
I don't know I trust the dyno numbers. Let's see what production cars end up putting down. That torque number is insanely high compared to the numbers Toyota claims at the crank.

And ya, just not into the look of the car. Not when being teased with the concept car that looked incredible. I'd have to say the BMW looks better. And I don't think the BMW is all that great either. It's less boy-racer at least.


You know more than most that a single dyno test means shit. Calibration, coast down, weather correction are all things that can inflate the number. I had a car dynoíd for work and got crank numbers at the wheel, then went to Mustang and asked for clarification, and they said operator error, who then re-ran the test with parameters from Mustang and we got a normal 15 percent loss at the wheels.
05-23-2019 07:31 PM
Blood on Blood Junk
05-23-2019 03:37 PM
N20GT Would i buy a bmw with a toyota badge or a better looking bmw with a bmw badge for damn near the same price. Omai such a tough decision
05-23-2019 01:20 PM
Pressure Ratio I don't know I trust the dyno numbers. Let's see what production cars end up putting down. That torque number is insanely high compared to the numbers Toyota claims at the crank.

And ya, just not into the look of the car. Not when being teased with the concept car that looked incredible. I'd have to say the BMW looks better. And I don't think the BMW is all that great either. It's less boy-racer at least.
05-23-2019 01:14 PM
Omicron
Quote:
Originally Posted by lastls1 View Post
Itís very hard to overcome a car that doesnít look good. Especially for how hyped this car was and how good itís past version was.
R35 GTR is example A here. Had that car merely been very good performance wise rather than the juggernaut it was it would have been scoffed at.
05-23-2019 01:05 PM
Yaj Yak
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaj Yak View Post
best option to me thus far regarding this and it's bmw cousin is to snag a CPO Z4 in 3 years for 24k with 32,000 miles on it some chick drove to tennis lessons and whole foods.



:yepppp:



05-23-2019 01:03 PM
willizm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mook View Post
I am happy to see the car is underrated, so I do take back SOME (not all) of my power gripes.
That's what I'm saying. It doesn't excuse the car for it's bigger flaws that's for sure but I'm glad it is in fact underrated. I'm still holding out that they will release a TRD version in a couple years with one of their own drivetrains but that is super wishful thinking and highly doubt it makes sense from a cost perspective.
05-23-2019 12:59 PM
Mook I am happy to see the car is underrated, so I do take back SOME (not all) of my power gripes.
05-23-2019 12:59 PM
lastls1 Itís very hard to overcome a car that doesnít look good. Especially for how hyped this car was and how good itís past version was.
05-23-2019 12:58 PM
willizm Don't get me wrong, I agree it's very much still a body kitted BMW. That to me will always be the sticking point to this car, but power was always a sore spot for people comparing it to the output of the z4 which given the dyno probably means they are very much the same or similar output levels all together. I won't be selling my poopra any time soon I'll tell you that
05-23-2019 12:55 PM
Mook The car could make 600hp (I mean it would help), but my stance has largely remained the same....even more after attending the auto show...I just dont think its a particularly great looking car in stock form.
05-23-2019 12:54 PM
Yaj Yak i dont even think there's a good enough shaking my head gif i could find to convey my feelings.
05-23-2019 12:52 PM
lastls1
2020 Toyota Supra - This is it?

The numbers for the engine isnít really the biggest deal. Yes some would agree it should be higher...... but for 60 grand it 100% needs to be higher given the way it looks.

The car looks like crap, itís a bmw rebadged with some body kit changes. Then they give it horsepower LS cars had in 2000. Itís the entire package thatís crap not just that one thing.

If it was simply horsepower it could easily be overlooked. The previous version was not powerful stock either, we are just used to seeing 1500hp as standard for supras. But 60k, and ugly car, and low horsepower = crap.
05-23-2019 12:46 PM
willizm I'm surprised more people aren't commenting in here on the power numbers it put down on the dyno. Seems like so many people, including me, were bagging on the stated power numbers on this car compared to the z4. Seeing it grossly underrated I think helps create some buzz. Wonder if a tune and bolt ons would easily start seeing 450whp. Time will tell I suppose.
05-22-2019 08:49 AM
BS ISF Just like every other BMW they under rated it. That torque number is real nice!!
05-21-2019 01:59 PM
Intel So is this going to beat a minivan or no?
05-21-2019 01:45 PM
Yaj Yak that's a pretty neat torque number
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