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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-25-2017 07:16 PM
10sec
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason05gt View Post
Solid review and I really enjoy enjoyed Pobst doing the on road and on track review. The normal MT reviewer is boring.
Effing, WORD. Pobst is awesome.
09-25-2017 04:51 PM
sickmint79 pretty impressive sedan package
09-25-2017 03:44 PM
jason05gt Solid review and I really enjoy enjoyed Pobst doing the on road and on track review. The normal MT reviewer is boring.
09-25-2017 03:36 PM
Pressure Ratio Well of course. #BecauseKiaRules
09-25-2017 03:30 PM
10sec Kia faster than a v-6 mustang!

https://youtu.be/tSWQTkbTYIQ
09-22-2017 10:10 AM
jason05gt You win - The BRZ is god's new track chariot. Look for a TCG reveal thread coming soon.
09-22-2017 09:52 AM
sickmint79 you're right jason, i agree, mustang enthusiasts buying mustangs will buy the most mustang they can afford. but so what? no one has been talking about mustang enthusiasts but you.

i have talked about people spending 25k on a car and buying one they take to the track. you ignore that these are the real shoppers that exist even when i shove links in your face with that exact conversation taking place among people actually buying one of the cars. the track oriented ones don't pick the mustang, period. in your mind you've rationalized out some fantasy where the decide to spend an extra 15k on the mustang and get a higher model, they've become mustang enthusiasts with greater budgets through magic. in reality some of them do choose the mustang, and they are not the kind of people who take it to tracks.

you opined yourself how you did not understand why such a good car is not used for this application more often - and the v6 mustang is good enough now that i am surprised it has yet to break the low barrier of 0 in my observance either - nevertheless it is what it is.

miata: drivers and hairdressers
86s: drivers and vaping stancelords
v6 mustangs: just hairdressers

how your are bringing in cobras and bosses i have no idea. if people are cross shopping older used cars of this type they are doing it with similar camaros and vettes etc, no one is cross shopping a brz and a boss mustang particularly for the track. you have all the right answers for the questions you've imagined and ignore the ones actually taking place.
09-22-2017 09:17 AM
jason05gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
that's funny since you're the one who has rationalized in their head the fictional mustang buyer with no budget who when track oriented buys the gt350.

back in reality, 25k cross shipped sporty cars in articles compare exactly these cars:
Subaru BRZ vs. Ford Mustang EcoBoost Comparison - Right Foot Down
Poll: Subaru BRZ Premium or Ford Mustang Fastback V6? Ľ AutoGuide.com News

and look, cross shopped by actual buyers too:
86 vs. Mustang (v6) - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/commen...ng_v6ecoboost/

ryan doesn't get why anyone who tracks would pick the brz, because the summation of his track knowledge is a youtube video. you don't get it because you have googley eyes for mustangs and ignore the threads above and think 25k shoppers become 35-50k shoppers.

how about another angle - there's spec86 and 86 cup race series. where's the v6 mustang race series? "oh but anyone who wants to race mustangs races v8s"? but people, in your own words, consider cost and value as well. so at the cheaper price point why aren't they choosing a v6 mustang to make a class around?
I said that Mustang ENTHUSIASTS (and other brands) have multiple performance models that enthusiasts will purchase within the model line. Mustang enthusiasts will choose the GT or GT350 because itís faster, has bigger brakes, etc. Thatís why naturally you donít see many V6ís at the track and youíll see the performance models of the Mustang brand. In addition, enthusiasts will consider both used and new cars to get the best performance car for the buck. So if I am in the market for a Mustang with $25K in my pocket, I would look at Cobras, Boss Mustangs, and late model 5.0s all of which are much more capable vehicles than a new BRZ.

Can let this thread die and all agree that based on the data?

1. BRZís are slow by todayís standards
2. V6ís Mustangs are faster on the track
3. No one really buys a V6 Mustang as a track car (unless they are gutting for a race car).
4. The most important variable is the driver.
09-21-2017 08:57 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason05gt View Post
You fail to realize that what's rational in your head doesn't work out in real life. If it did, Subaru would sell more than a rounding error of BRZ's a year.

Performance buyers have judged the BRZ a flop and there's many reasons for that. Enthusiasts that want a fast car look at both new and used.

You don't see many 25K V6 Mustangs at the drag strip either. It's the same reason. Guys will buy a GT, GT500 or a plethora of cars in that price range both new and used that are much more capable vehicle.
that's funny since you're the one who has rationalized in their head the fictional mustang buyer with no budget who when track oriented buys the gt350.

back in reality, 25k cross shipped sporty cars in articles compare exactly these cars:
Subaru BRZ vs. Ford Mustang EcoBoost Comparison - Right Foot Down
Poll: Subaru BRZ Premium or Ford Mustang Fastback V6? Ľ AutoGuide.com News

and look, cross shopped by actual buyers too:
86 vs. Mustang (v6) - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/commen...ng_v6ecoboost/

ryan doesn't get why anyone who tracks would pick the brz, because the summation of his track knowledge is a youtube video. you don't get it because you have googley eyes for mustangs and ignore the threads above and think 25k shoppers become 35-50k shoppers.

how about another angle - there's spec86 and 86 cup race series. where's the v6 mustang race series? "oh but anyone who wants to race mustangs races v8s"? but people, in your own words, consider cost and value as well. so at the cheaper price point why aren't they choosing a v6 mustang to make a class around?
09-21-2017 08:13 PM
jason05gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
you open a whole new world of options when you talk about something used. you keep repeating something that makes no sense.



"someone shopping with 25k looking for a daily/track car looks at 25k car a, 25k car b, 25k car c, and buys 40k car d"



no they don't. if they are looking at a gt or gt350 they ain't cross shopping it with brzs and miatas dude.



the reason you don't see 25k v6 mustangs along with 25k brzs at the track is because nobody wants to track them. since you haven't visited the track this year i counted for you bro - and the count was absolute zero, they same as it has always been.


You fail to realize that what's rational in your head doesn't work out in real life. If it did, Subaru would sell more than a rounding error of BRZ's a year.

Performance buyers have judged the BRZ a flop and there's many reasons for that. Enthusiasts that want a fast car look at both new and used.

You don't see many 25K V6 Mustangs at the drag strip either. It's the same reason. Guys will buy a GT, GT500 or a plethora of cars in that price range both new and used that are much more capable vehicle.
09-21-2017 07:25 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason05gt View Post
Or they look at the vast amount of options in the $25K range on the used car market that are better options. If you are a Mustang guy you can get in a used 5.0 for less than a BRZ.
you open a whole new world of options when you talk about something used. you keep repeating something that makes no sense.

"someone shopping with 25k looking for a daily/track car looks at 25k car a, 25k car b, 25k car c, and buys 40k car d"

no they don't. if they are looking at a gt or gt350 they ain't cross shopping it with brzs and miatas dude.

the reason you don't see 25k v6 mustangs along with 25k brzs at the track is because nobody wants to track them. since you haven't visited the track this year i counted for you bro - and the count was absolute zero, they same as it has always been.
09-21-2017 07:21 PM
jason05gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
i think you still don't get it since we've had this conversation 5 times already.



people price shop cars in a price range. this is why you see articles comparing a brz and v6 mustang and nd miatas etc and you don't see a gt350 in them. you are magically adding cars that are not cross shopped and budget that isn't there.


Or they look at the vast amount of options in the $25K range on the used car market that are better options. If you are a Mustang guy you can get in a used 5.0 for less than a BRZ.
09-21-2017 07:17 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason05gt View Post
You still don't get it that cost and value play a huge role here. Miatas and BRZ's are cheap and there's no performance model that enthusiasts flock to. In the Mustang, anyone that's a car guy is going to buy a GT or GT350. That's why you don't see many v6's at track days.
i think you still don't get it since we've had this conversation 5 times already.

people price shop cars in a price range. this is why you see articles comparing a brz and v6 mustang and nd miatas etc and you don't see a gt350 in them. you are magically adding cars that are not cross shopped and budget that isn't there.
09-21-2017 07:08 PM
jason05gt
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
an interesting video that just came out on another car that's slower than a v6 mustang but you see every generation of at track days today.



https://www.facebook.com/donutmedia/...6564143839065/


You still don't get it that cost and value play a huge role here. Miatas and BRZ's are cheap and there's no performance model that enthusiasts flock to. In the Mustang, anyone that's a car guy is going to buy a GT or GT350. That's why you don't see many v6's at track days.
09-21-2017 06:38 PM
sickmint79 an interesting video that just came out on another car that's slower than a v6 mustang but you see every generation of at track days today.

https://www.facebook.com/donutmedia/...6564143839065/
09-21-2017 05:38 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffs FRC View Post
On a 200hp car, sure maybe launch control might be good, but I'd bet money a skilled driver could do better. Pretty much any kind of sports car comes with LC these days. The guys that run the quickest at the strip have all the nanny shit tuned off...
you can tune this with the computer down to the exact rpm you want to launch at - how could i beat that with my clumsy foot and monkey brain? if you can set the launch control any way you want it, i find it hard to believe a person could do it better. just as important as speed isn't control and dialing in and being able to hit the number you dialed in consistently super important?

Quote:
Yea you haven't compared car A to car B, but you just shit on a lot of people here by saying drag racing is amusement and requires little skill. Drag racing takes a ton of skill, especially if you're using a car with a man pedal.
i didn't say it requires no skill, i said it requires less skill. just think how crazy it is if in addition to that man pedal you'd also need to use the stoppy stoppy pedal. then throw in the turny wheel for something other than going straight and you start getting real crazy.
09-21-2017 05:33 PM
Jeffs FRC
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
my high end 2013 exotic brz has launch control assistance with an ecutek tune; i'm sure a fucktoooon of other cars can do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRoveuHSk4I

i have a hard time believing someone can't dial this in and get both their best and most consistent times with it. plus more cars are coming with factory and tuned options and it certainly appears to be faster.

Computers v. Humans: Launch Control Tested - Feature - Car and Driver



you're right, i'm not an expert drag guy, which is why you don't here me shitting all over car a vs. car b for a drag car. i've certainly launched and drag raced a car though, on the street and at a drag strip. yet you never see me shit on car a vs. b in any thread here.

meanwhile ryan has never done a damn thing on a real race track but has strong opinions from complete ignorance. and you guys can choose whatever you want for road racing. i'm telling you 0 people in the chicagoland area pick up a v6 mustang over a brz for road racing though. you can be the first! see you out there!
On a 200hp car, sure maybe launch control might be good, but I'd bet money a skilled driver could do better. Pretty much any kind of sports car comes with LC these days. The guys that run the quickest at the strip have all the nanny shit tuned off...

Yea you haven't compared car A to car B, but you just shit on a lot of people here by saying drag racing is amusement and requires little skill. Drag racing takes a ton of skill, especially if you're using a car with a man pedal.
09-21-2017 05:32 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan02Stang View Post
I know the difference between an M3 and an M5. Not knowing the difference between a GTO and a G8 proves overall lack of automotive knowledge.
and not a goddamn bit of anything useful about the tires i mentioned, i'm sure. good for you.

Quote:
And the v6 being better isn't my opinion. It is a fact being proven by faster times. Just because more people show up to a Bulls game instead of a Cavs game, doesn't make the Bulls better than the Cavs....
it's so much better for road racing that zero people buy it for road racing.

quite the mystery for you. not one at all for me. because, as stated previously, you really don't understand.
09-21-2017 05:26 PM
Ryan02Stang I know the difference between an M3 and an M5. Not knowing the difference between a GTO and a G8 proves overall lack of automotive knowledge.

And the v6 being better isn't my opinion. It is a fact being proven by faster times. Just because more people show up to a Bulls game instead of a Cavs game, doesn't make the Bulls better than the Cavs....
09-21-2017 05:12 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan02Stang View Post
So a BRZ is a better car than a V6 Mustang because more people drive it to track days. The v6 Mustang being a better performing (proven by track times) is not a better performance car, regardless of better objective performance numbers.

It is one of the biggest ricer arguments I've ever heard!
the dumbest argument is the one you're making:

20 out of 20 track guys picked a brz over a v6 mustang, but they should have picked a v6 mustang based on the opinion of a guy who has never driven on a race track. when you say i don't get prioritizing shit with your kids over going to the track, that's wrong - i totally get it. when i say you don't get road racing though, i'm not wrong, you really have no idea what it's like, what makes a car more fun, or makes a car more fast. the only thing in your brain is more hp + straight line = moar fastars. **that's it** - and fine, that's all you need for the motorsport you do. but maybe you should stick to your bold opinions only about that one.

Quote:
Have you ever been to a drag strip, and if so what was the highest HP car you've raced there?
yes, GLD, sti with a tune and a supercharged m3. although i'm not sure how much this matters, given your 0 visits to a road course and bold expertise on them, right?

Quote:
Stereotypes are usually created by real life scenarios. Like being the almighty all knowing BRZ driving car enthusiast.....that can't tell a G8 from a GTO...
just because i don't know/care the difference between some v8 pontiacs doesn't mean i'm not one - i'm a bmw fanboy and surely know more than you about the nooks and crannies of this model or that one. i just bought new tires and spent a few days pondering between rs4s, dz2s, and re71s - a conversation i'm sure you would be entirely incapable of participating in.

none of these are stereotypes anyway, unlike your multiple threads of "well it's monday, so the guys there with a viper are rich retirees but the guys there with a camaro just took the day off of work (but have no kids) but ordered a coffee for breakfast (instead of a latte) and blah blah blah."
09-21-2017 05:12 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffs FRC View Post
So you just mention drag racing and say it requires no skill and is borderline amusement, but then mention launch control. Outside of high end exotics, I don't know one single car that launch control will get you a better time on the strip.
my high end 2013 exotic brz has launch control assistance with an ecutek tune; i'm sure a fucktoooon of other cars can do this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRoveuHSk4I

i have a hard time believing someone can't dial this in and get both their best and most consistent times with it. plus more cars are coming with factory and tuned options and it certainly appears to be faster.

Computers v. Humans: Launch Control Tested - Feature - Car and Driver

Quote:
BOTH of you are commenting on what you don't really know about. Although, I have to agree with Ryan that if I was after a track car, there'd be a shit ton of cars I'd choose over a BRZ.
you're right, i'm not an expert drag guy, which is why you don't here me shitting all over car a vs. car b for a drag car. i've certainly launched and drag raced a car though, on the street and at a drag strip. yet you never see me shit on car a vs. b in any thread here.

meanwhile ryan has never done a damn thing on a real race track but has strong opinions from complete ignorance. and you guys can choose whatever you want for road racing. i'm telling you 0 people in the chicagoland area pick up a v6 mustang over a brz for road racing though. you can be the first! see you out there!
09-21-2017 04:49 PM
Ryan02Stang
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
it does with randy pobst at the helm but i'm not even sure he'd choose it to buy - and you keep ignoring the objective measurement that actually matters for people who shop in this price range and buy a car for daily driving and track duty - and that's 100s of 86s showing up doing all sorts of motorsports throughout the summer at events and near 0s of v6 mustangs doing so. but if that evidence doesn't support your theory that the mustang is a better choice, you just ignore it right?

you also still lack any credibility on the topic entirely. you're a magazine racer that has no idea what it's actually like to drive either car on something like a road course. most people avoid strong assertions when they come from positions of complete and utter ignorance.
So a BRZ is a better car than a V6 Mustang because more people drive it to track days. The v6 Mustang being a better performing (proven by track times) is not a better performance car, regardless of better objective performance numbers.

It is one of the biggest ricer arguments I've ever heard!


Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
oh no it's real and it does take skill, although it is bordering more on an amusement ride particularly as cars come out with launch control. it certainly doesn't take the skill of a road course nor does it really care much or at all about 2 of the fundamental things a sports car does: brake and turn. and hey, if this is the only thing you know about, why don't you keep your comments restricted to something you actually have a clue about?
Have you ever been to a drag strip, and if so what was the highest HP car you've raced there?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sickmint79 View Post
well you've made up everything else you correlate it with. i mean the only thing impressive in this thread is how many car stereotypes your imagination has run wild with as to both the background of attendees and every type of car brought out to track days. you've probably created an elaborate backstory already of how g8 mom could show up to a track day and you couldn't.
Stereotypes are usually created by real life scenarios. Like being the almighty all knowing BRZ driving car enthusiast.....that can't tell a G8 from a GTO...
09-21-2017 04:46 PM
Jeffs FRC So you just mention drag racing and say it requires no skill and is borderline amusement, but then mention launch control. Outside of high end exotics, I don't know one single car that launch control will get you a better time on the strip.

BOTH of you are commenting on what you don't really know about. Although, I have to agree with Ryan that if I was after a track car, there'd be a shit ton of cars I'd choose over a BRZ.
09-21-2017 04:40 PM
sickmint79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan02Stang View Post
Because a v6 Mustang pulls better road course times. You can add whatever feelgood subjective things you want to add about it being such a great road course car, but in an objective measurement of road racing....it loses to a v6 Mustang.
it does with randy pobst at the helm but i'm not even sure he'd choose it to buy - and you keep ignoring the objective measurement that actually matters for people who shop in this price range and buy a car for daily driving and track duty - and that's 100s of 86s showing up doing all sorts of motorsports throughout the summer at events and near 0s of v6 mustangs doing so. but if that evidence doesn't support your theory that the mustang is a better choice, you just ignore it right?

you also still lack any credibility on the topic entirely. you're a magazine racer that has no idea what it's actually like to drive either car on something like a road course. most people avoid strong assertions when they come from positions of complete and utter ignorance.

Quote:
I've said several times in this thread I race at the drag strip. You of course have discounted that as not real racing. Many of us in the car enthusiast hobby greatly enjoy the drag strip.
oh no it's real and it does take skill, although it is bordering more on an amusement ride particularly as cars come out with launch control. it certainly doesn't take the skill of a road course nor does it really care much or at all about 2 of the fundamental things a sports car does: brake and turn. and hey, if this is the only thing you know about, why don't you keep your comments restricted to something you actually have a clue about?

Quote:
Do you really think its infertility? I don't get how owning a BRZ would in any way correlate to people being infertile.
well you've made up everything else you correlate it with. i mean the only thing impressive in this thread is how many car stereotypes your imagination has run wild with as to both the background of attendees and every type of car brought out to track days. you've probably created an elaborate backstory already of how g8 mom could show up to a track day and you couldn't.
09-21-2017 04:27 PM
blakbearddelite You might be able to correlate manliness somehow into that, but maybe not fertility.
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