If you missed TCG's best teaser post (of the day) ever, you missed where I bought a fully driving, functioning Tesla Model S for... You guessed it: $20,000. One might be wondering how this can be a thing. The simple answer: sheer dumb luck.
The problem with Tesla's is that a couple years ago there was this 3 - 6 month long wait list to get one and people that already had them took advantage of this by charging more for their used cars than Tesla charged for a new one. Tesla also screwed the pooch by de-contenting the car as it gained popularity. So technically they could tell you it still started at $65,000 or whatever it's price was but what they didn't tell you is suddenly you're paying extra for the ambient lighting and that sound system upgrade? Yeah, now it's $2500, not $850. This served to further bump the price of used cars. But that was then and this is now. Now Tesla is caught up with production, there is no wait list and resale values are nowhere near what *most* sellers are asking for their cars. The days of overcharging for used cars are gone. Demand has leveled off.
Most buyers appear to have missed the memo though. I've got RSS feeds set nationally for Model S's and check Cars.com, eBay, Tesla's CPO website and Autotrader daily. People are asking stupid money for these still. They're asking more than Tesla asks for the same used car and Tesla gives you a 4 year/ 50,000 mile warranty starting the day you buy a used car from them, regardless of mileage or age. Frequently private party sellers are asking tens of thousands more than even Tesla.
So I Made An Ad
I was hoping to appeal to those that were either upgraded to an X or something like a P85D. So I posted an ad on Craigslist that I was looking for an 85kwh car, named my options and sat on my hands. A couple people responded looking for ridiculous prices and then I got this email:
No interest, none whatsoever. I see what these sell for and it's stupid. They still sell for $35,000 - $40,000 after they're fixed but they don't have a warranty and Tesla won't even service them. But for shits and giggles I ask how much. He tells me $48,000. I politely lol in his virtual face and explain why that's a terrible deal. He agrees and lowers his price to $40,000. Now at $40,000 it's interesting but not "I'm going to buy you" interesting.
See the thing with a salvage Tesla is that they basically pretend the car no longer exists. That means they won't sell you parts, they won't service the car even if you pay them and they disable supercharging.
I tell him I'm still not interested. Now he comes back at me and unloads. "I shouldn't have bought this". "I can't afford it if it breaks". "There's no Tesla Service Centers for at least 100 miles". "I thought it would still work on the Supercharger Network".
Basically he was in a panic. He knew he made a big mistake. How big of a mistake? He paid $45,000 for the car 3 weeks ago. I know that because he told me and because that same car was listed on Craigslist about a month ago for $48,000. He comes back at me and says $25,000. I say no but that was a hard no to say. After all, as far as I know (and as far as the pictures show) the car is fixed pretty well. But I could feel his desperation and knew I didn't want to pay $25,000 for it. So I asked him for his bottom line. He says $20,000.
The Inspection
At $20,000 I'm motivated to drive my happy ass up to Bakersfield to look at it. When I see it pull in the parking lot my first impression is damn, that's clean. It looks good. As you can see from the pictures in the other post, you'd never guess this car was in an accident unless you really looked close. Having seen the accident pictures, it was a relatively light hit too.
The first thing I do is pop the hood/ frunk. The liner for that is missing (which the seller told me) so the front end mechanics are all exposed. This is a plus for me. The first thing I spot is the driver's side frame rail is ever so slightly bowed. Not creased, not bent, just so slightly bowed. Maybe 1/8 of an inch from the rear of the car to the front. The second thing I notice is that the bumper stops that hold the bumper to the frame rail are collapsed. These are intended to "give" in a light accident and then be replaced. He didn't replace them. He just bolted a new bumper to them. Not the worst thing in the world but it meant that the panel gap between the bumper cover and fender was nothing and the hood overlaps the bumper cover by about 1/8th of an inch. Again, nothing you would ever notice unless looking for it.
Then I get in the car and hear this awful racket. It's the suspension compressor. It keeps coming on and there's an error for the air suspension though it's working fine. I suspect one of the lines was pinched and is bleeding off pressure, causing the compressor to come on more often, throwing a code. I look at the compressor and notice that he bolted it directly back to the frame, bypassing the rubber isolators which were likely damaged in the accident. Now I know why it's loud.
Then I notice the airbag light. He thinks it's on because nobody is in the passenger seat. I know better. It's an error light. Then I notice the guy not only omitted the under hood liner but he didn't install any of the plastic cowling by the windshield which means you can literally reach your hand into the HVAC blower motor. No filter there. So instantly I'm thinking ok, even at 20k this kind of blows. It's going to need a few thousand to make it tolerable but I drive it anyhow.
And it drives fine. It doesn't pull at all, it tracks perfectly straight and it just feels like a Tesla feels. We get back and I tell him I'll think about it.
His Story
This kid got fucked. At first I thought he was working one over on me but then I saw his paperwork and realized he did pay $45,000 for the car. He told me he was naive and impatient and it was a big life lesson. More or less the guy that sold it to him said it was fully fixed minus the frunk liner. He told the kid not to take his word for it either. "Have the car inspected.". And the kid basically took that to mean that the seller must have been honest. Little did he know...
The seller knew he was arriving from Bakersfield and gave the kid the car with 93 miles of range to go 120 miles, 40 of which is up and over a mountain range. No problem. He'll hit a supercharger. When he does that he realizes the car isn't charging. So he calls the guy that sold it to him and he plays dumb, saying that he supercharged it and it was fine. Then he stops answering phone calls. The kid that sold it to me said he knew he got taken when he pulled up the main menu and the custom name for the car was "Fuck you". That was the last he'd hear from the seller.
It's hard to feel bad for him because there were so many red flags here, least of which is the fact that $45,000 is not a great deal for this car with a salvage title. This is a $60,000 car, maybe $65,000 with this mileage and the options it has. At $45,000 the potential downsides far outweigh the upside (saving $15,000). Then you realize he knows exactly how bad he screwed up here and he's taking responsibility and you can't help but to pity him.
But I Offer Anyhow
What follows is almost a week of negotiations. Initially I offer him $15,000 which he is borderline willing to take. Like, he was almost ready to tell me to come out and take it except for his friends who told him I was a vulture. Vulture or not, I gave him really clear math explaining that the moment he gave that guy $45,000 for a salvage car he lost a lot of money and that he could either cut his losses and sell it to me and lose that money now or he could sell it down the road for a substantial loss. Either way he was losing that money. It didn't matter. Now not only didn't he want to take $15,000 but he didn't want to take $20,000 either. He was sure the car was worth $35,000, maybe $40,000. I politely told him I disagreed and also said he was mistaking my excitement for taking on a new project car with desperation and I wasn't desperate. That was Saturday. The car was lost. I messaged John (emersonhart) and told him I was pissed.
Well this morning I get an email from him and he says he's changed his mind. His friends aren't the ones that are going to have to spend the money on the car to get it perfect and so it's easy for them to say to keep it. He'll take $20,000. Come and get it. And so I do.
How Is It?
On the inside it's flawless. It looks brand new. 13,000 miles will do that. On the outside it's a 9 out of 10, accident or not. Once I replace those bumper stops/ accordions it should restore the stock gaps to the front bumper cover. The car is fully functioning with just a warning for a parking sensor that needs to be replaced. No big deal there. The good news is that it was a front hit with no passengers which means just the driver's knee airbag and steering wheel bag went off. I was trying to find the flap where the driver's knee bag would come out and when I reached under the dash I realized there was no flap. The entire airbag assembly just bolts in and it wasn't there at all. So that's probably my airbag light.
As far as what to do with it, I'm not sure. There are a few different options:
Drive it - I can put a few thousand into it, fix the airbag light, put a trunk liner in and drive it. The gamble here is that if it breaks while I have it I can't do anything with it. Tesla won't sell you parts for a salvage car and they won't service it either. They do as much as they can to make sure it's nearly impossible to fix. This is why I suspect the knee airbag is missing. He simply couldn't get it.
Sell It - Salvage cars with a lot of damage and unknown drivetrains are fetching over $20,000. I legitimately think I could pop this up on eBay and grab a quick $30,000 for it and then roll that profit into a non-salvage car.
Fix It - A Tesla certified shop quoted ~$10,000 to fix it right. They'd like to replace that bowed frame rail. The upside is that for $30,000 I'd have a fully restored car with 13,000 miles and Tesla would then re-enable supercharging. The downside? No warranty still, not even the unlimited mile/ 8 year drivetrain and these cars are known for motor failures that cost $15,000 out of warranty. That wouldn't be good.
I'm not in a huge hurry to figure it out. For a running, working car, salvage or not, I know I'm not going to lose anything on it.
The problem with Tesla's is that a couple years ago there was this 3 - 6 month long wait list to get one and people that already had them took advantage of this by charging more for their used cars than Tesla charged for a new one. Tesla also screwed the pooch by de-contenting the car as it gained popularity. So technically they could tell you it still started at $65,000 or whatever it's price was but what they didn't tell you is suddenly you're paying extra for the ambient lighting and that sound system upgrade? Yeah, now it's $2500, not $850. This served to further bump the price of used cars. But that was then and this is now. Now Tesla is caught up with production, there is no wait list and resale values are nowhere near what *most* sellers are asking for their cars. The days of overcharging for used cars are gone. Demand has leveled off.
Most buyers appear to have missed the memo though. I've got RSS feeds set nationally for Model S's and check Cars.com, eBay, Tesla's CPO website and Autotrader daily. People are asking stupid money for these still. They're asking more than Tesla asks for the same used car and Tesla gives you a 4 year/ 50,000 mile warranty starting the day you buy a used car from them, regardless of mileage or age. Frequently private party sellers are asking tens of thousands more than even Tesla.
So I Made An Ad
I was hoping to appeal to those that were either upgraded to an X or something like a P85D. So I posted an ad on Craigslist that I was looking for an 85kwh car, named my options and sat on my hands. A couple people responded looking for ridiculous prices and then I got this email:
Hi, I have a 2013 tesla model s 85kwh with tech package, premium studio sound, and air suspension. But it's a salvage title.
No interest, none whatsoever. I see what these sell for and it's stupid. They still sell for $35,000 - $40,000 after they're fixed but they don't have a warranty and Tesla won't even service them. But for shits and giggles I ask how much. He tells me $48,000. I politely lol in his virtual face and explain why that's a terrible deal. He agrees and lowers his price to $40,000. Now at $40,000 it's interesting but not "I'm going to buy you" interesting.
See the thing with a salvage Tesla is that they basically pretend the car no longer exists. That means they won't sell you parts, they won't service the car even if you pay them and they disable supercharging.
I tell him I'm still not interested. Now he comes back at me and unloads. "I shouldn't have bought this". "I can't afford it if it breaks". "There's no Tesla Service Centers for at least 100 miles". "I thought it would still work on the Supercharger Network".
Basically he was in a panic. He knew he made a big mistake. How big of a mistake? He paid $45,000 for the car 3 weeks ago. I know that because he told me and because that same car was listed on Craigslist about a month ago for $48,000. He comes back at me and says $25,000. I say no but that was a hard no to say. After all, as far as I know (and as far as the pictures show) the car is fixed pretty well. But I could feel his desperation and knew I didn't want to pay $25,000 for it. So I asked him for his bottom line. He says $20,000.
The Inspection
At $20,000 I'm motivated to drive my happy ass up to Bakersfield to look at it. When I see it pull in the parking lot my first impression is damn, that's clean. It looks good. As you can see from the pictures in the other post, you'd never guess this car was in an accident unless you really looked close. Having seen the accident pictures, it was a relatively light hit too.
The first thing I do is pop the hood/ frunk. The liner for that is missing (which the seller told me) so the front end mechanics are all exposed. This is a plus for me. The first thing I spot is the driver's side frame rail is ever so slightly bowed. Not creased, not bent, just so slightly bowed. Maybe 1/8 of an inch from the rear of the car to the front. The second thing I notice is that the bumper stops that hold the bumper to the frame rail are collapsed. These are intended to "give" in a light accident and then be replaced. He didn't replace them. He just bolted a new bumper to them. Not the worst thing in the world but it meant that the panel gap between the bumper cover and fender was nothing and the hood overlaps the bumper cover by about 1/8th of an inch. Again, nothing you would ever notice unless looking for it.
Then I get in the car and hear this awful racket. It's the suspension compressor. It keeps coming on and there's an error for the air suspension though it's working fine. I suspect one of the lines was pinched and is bleeding off pressure, causing the compressor to come on more often, throwing a code. I look at the compressor and notice that he bolted it directly back to the frame, bypassing the rubber isolators which were likely damaged in the accident. Now I know why it's loud.
Then I notice the airbag light. He thinks it's on because nobody is in the passenger seat. I know better. It's an error light. Then I notice the guy not only omitted the under hood liner but he didn't install any of the plastic cowling by the windshield which means you can literally reach your hand into the HVAC blower motor. No filter there. So instantly I'm thinking ok, even at 20k this kind of blows. It's going to need a few thousand to make it tolerable but I drive it anyhow.
And it drives fine. It doesn't pull at all, it tracks perfectly straight and it just feels like a Tesla feels. We get back and I tell him I'll think about it.
His Story
This kid got fucked. At first I thought he was working one over on me but then I saw his paperwork and realized he did pay $45,000 for the car. He told me he was naive and impatient and it was a big life lesson. More or less the guy that sold it to him said it was fully fixed minus the frunk liner. He told the kid not to take his word for it either. "Have the car inspected.". And the kid basically took that to mean that the seller must have been honest. Little did he know...
The seller knew he was arriving from Bakersfield and gave the kid the car with 93 miles of range to go 120 miles, 40 of which is up and over a mountain range. No problem. He'll hit a supercharger. When he does that he realizes the car isn't charging. So he calls the guy that sold it to him and he plays dumb, saying that he supercharged it and it was fine. Then he stops answering phone calls. The kid that sold it to me said he knew he got taken when he pulled up the main menu and the custom name for the car was "Fuck you". That was the last he'd hear from the seller.
It's hard to feel bad for him because there were so many red flags here, least of which is the fact that $45,000 is not a great deal for this car with a salvage title. This is a $60,000 car, maybe $65,000 with this mileage and the options it has. At $45,000 the potential downsides far outweigh the upside (saving $15,000). Then you realize he knows exactly how bad he screwed up here and he's taking responsibility and you can't help but to pity him.
But I Offer Anyhow
What follows is almost a week of negotiations. Initially I offer him $15,000 which he is borderline willing to take. Like, he was almost ready to tell me to come out and take it except for his friends who told him I was a vulture. Vulture or not, I gave him really clear math explaining that the moment he gave that guy $45,000 for a salvage car he lost a lot of money and that he could either cut his losses and sell it to me and lose that money now or he could sell it down the road for a substantial loss. Either way he was losing that money. It didn't matter. Now not only didn't he want to take $15,000 but he didn't want to take $20,000 either. He was sure the car was worth $35,000, maybe $40,000. I politely told him I disagreed and also said he was mistaking my excitement for taking on a new project car with desperation and I wasn't desperate. That was Saturday. The car was lost. I messaged John (emersonhart) and told him I was pissed.
Well this morning I get an email from him and he says he's changed his mind. His friends aren't the ones that are going to have to spend the money on the car to get it perfect and so it's easy for them to say to keep it. He'll take $20,000. Come and get it. And so I do.
How Is It?
On the inside it's flawless. It looks brand new. 13,000 miles will do that. On the outside it's a 9 out of 10, accident or not. Once I replace those bumper stops/ accordions it should restore the stock gaps to the front bumper cover. The car is fully functioning with just a warning for a parking sensor that needs to be replaced. No big deal there. The good news is that it was a front hit with no passengers which means just the driver's knee airbag and steering wheel bag went off. I was trying to find the flap where the driver's knee bag would come out and when I reached under the dash I realized there was no flap. The entire airbag assembly just bolts in and it wasn't there at all. So that's probably my airbag light.
As far as what to do with it, I'm not sure. There are a few different options:
Drive it - I can put a few thousand into it, fix the airbag light, put a trunk liner in and drive it. The gamble here is that if it breaks while I have it I can't do anything with it. Tesla won't sell you parts for a salvage car and they won't service it either. They do as much as they can to make sure it's nearly impossible to fix. This is why I suspect the knee airbag is missing. He simply couldn't get it.
Sell It - Salvage cars with a lot of damage and unknown drivetrains are fetching over $20,000. I legitimately think I could pop this up on eBay and grab a quick $30,000 for it and then roll that profit into a non-salvage car.
Fix It - A Tesla certified shop quoted ~$10,000 to fix it right. They'd like to replace that bowed frame rail. The upside is that for $30,000 I'd have a fully restored car with 13,000 miles and Tesla would then re-enable supercharging. The downside? No warranty still, not even the unlimited mile/ 8 year drivetrain and these cars are known for motor failures that cost $15,000 out of warranty. That wouldn't be good.
I'm not in a huge hurry to figure it out. For a running, working car, salvage or not, I know I'm not going to lose anything on it.
