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Old 05-14-2015, 12:05 AM   #151
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Keep up the work brother it will be worth it
Already is, I'm learning a lot about how these mechanical tuning devices are adjusted without a keyboard.

Decided to drop some parts in the QJ and see what happens. I had another mid 70s unit for parts here (I think it was a 454 carb originally) compared to my 86 350 Chevy carb that's in now. Here's what I changed on the secondary circuit.



These are the metering rod hangers. Notice how the bottom one's holes are "lower" than the top ones. This is a "P" hanger vs a "C" hanger. Why is this important? The air valves in the top of the carb open due to air demand. This in turn pulls the tapered rods out of the secondary jets which increases the amount of fuel going into the engine. By having a hanger that has the rods deeper into the jets, it takes a higher percentage of the air valve opening to allow large amounts of fuel to flow. In my case, it should help my mpg at 3000 RPM by being on a fatter part of the rod.



Here are the rods. The top ones are "EK" rods and the bottoms are "DG" rods. Notice how the tip on the DGs are way thinner. Thinner rods=more fuel. The units are ten thousandths of an inch.

I.D. Code 0 deg. 20 deg. 40 deg. 60 deg. 70 deg. 80 deg. 90 deg. Tip length
EK 1340 1294 1165 932 790 567 567 M
DG 1342 1244 1075 847 547 337 337 M
Variance .29% 7.57% 14.8% 17.4% 52% 65% 65%

What's really noticeable about this is I'll get a tiny bit more fuel all the time, I'll get a bit more fuel in the mid air demand but at high deman (WOT, high flow) I'll get a lot more fuel. I should really have a WB hooked into this to tune it, but figured I'd just see what the butt dyno says.

As you can see, low/mid fueling doesn't really change altogether that much. WOT fueling changes a ton, but chances of me actually having the air valves open into that 70 degree+range by and large are minimal IMO. I'm curious to see how it works out, but don't suspect any issues. I may end up trying to do a couple plug cuts and seeing what's what if I can though.
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Old 05-26-2015, 09:46 PM   #152
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OK, lots of stuff going on. First off, I took the car out for a test. Boy what a difference the rods and hangers made. I've got a bit of a bog at lower RPM, I think that's possibly due to timing curve being a little sluggish or due to the hanger not being a power oriented calibration. I may get a "G" or "K" hanger and see if that can give me the best of both worlds.

Also noteworthy I got my first mpg estimates at 9.6MPG. Considering it was a run with my foot fully in the gas half the time, the old hanger/rod setup.

Also made it out to Duke's tonight, which was a blow out due to the weather. That being said I did get 66 miles of driving out of her, so I'm not really complaining. She got a bit of rain but nothing I'm afraid of.



After fighting it forever, I found out WHY my shifter was jamming up. I went and bought the Hurst shifter bushing kit thinking that I'd just be able to drop em in.



Instead they're an OEM style bushing like this pic I borrowed, and the rod was loose.



Well, obviously we need a solution to this. My options are MIGing the hole tighter and shaping it with a grinder. Instead, I decided to resort to guns.



I cut down the .357 brass with a tubing cutter, then split it down the side. I then slid it over the end of the rod as a bushing. It took most the slop out of it.

Due to this, I was enjoying power shifting today. I can't believe it was that simple of a fix to get this back into order, at least temporariliy. The MIG welder may come out at some point in the future depending on durability of my .357 shell casing.
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:48 PM   #153
 
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Hey Roboto I have a younger friend on a budget looking for a Pontiac stock 4 bbl manifold you have anything cheap to free for him ....Needs to fit a 350 poncho for 73 Lemans
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Old 05-26-2015, 11:55 PM   #154
 
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And car is still kicking along good to see !!
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Old 05-27-2015, 08:21 AM   #155
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No 4bbl manifolds, I still have a 2bbl here though. I looked on CL forever for mine at the price I wanted to pay ($40.) With his engine being a 73 (EGR) he would be best to get a stock 72-79 manifold because his heads are EGR equipped (unless they've been changed.) The plus side is that they are considered a VERY good manifold, as in they can be run on 400-500hp engines.

Aftermarket wise until you get past the limits of a stock engine they say a Performer is your best bet and its benefit is weight reduction rather than power.

1967 pontiac 326 engine parting out

This is a bit of a haul but $35 a good deal. ED:it's a 72 which is perfect, should just plop on. Also keep in mind that the 2bbl linkage and the 4bbl linkages are different and you'll have to build something up.

http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/Articles/HPPP-130100-RO.pdf
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:38 AM   #156
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Well, got a vac leak at the intake. Time to yank this bitch off. Thankfully I don't have to mess with the water at all.

I didn't use sealer last time, this time will probably be different. What's recommended? Seems like a lot of potential ways to do this. The Edelbrock goop any good?

I may do some cutting and grinding on the intake, just because I have it off. If I put it on again, I'd like to have it ready in case I want to swap on a Rochester 220 TBI unit. May also be worth a couple HP too.
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Old 05-30-2015, 12:06 AM   #157
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Found my intake manifold leak. Going to hit it up with some JB weld and filing and see if I can get the surface trued up. The other one on that side is like this too, it's like someone stored this intake on that flange in their basement or something. May be looking to get into an Edelbrock Performer at this rate.

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Old 05-31-2015, 02:16 PM   #158
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Did this as much for a future tbi conversion as anything. A few hp due to plenum volume would be nice too. Went from 10 to 15 inhg at idle.

Driving indicated a bog so the ek rods went back in. I must have been short on carb signal due to the vac leak as i can bring it to 3k in first and she will do the 2 wheel peel now.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:09 PM   #159
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The car is running great! Lots more power (still some off idle bog, but better with the EKs) but it still has some bog. I think I'm going to drop the pump shot stroke down and see if she acts any better. I'm fairly certain I saw some mpg increase over the 13 MPG I got before, but am not sure due to having lost the previous receipt. Right now she's at 96,857 which puts me over 600 miles. Wow, time has flown.

Took it to work in Lisle and over to Babe's tonight, and had a good time. I slung it in between two 68-70 GTOs or clones thereof. Hey, it's kind of a GTO right?

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Old 06-04-2015, 08:16 PM   #160
 
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that's a cool Shot Roboto !
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:57 PM   #161
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It's been well over a month since I've even fired it up I've been out of town so much. Just been crazy here. I'm braving the trip to Milwaukee from Joliet tomorrow which is 125ish miles. Packed a few (not too many) extra tools and a second spare (driven longer on jankier tires, but paid the price for it too) so all I need to do is toss a few clothes in and I'm good to go.

From a technical standpoint what's interesting is I'm pulling 15inhg and I'm not getting any vacuum advance. I had the timing light on with it disconnected and plugged vs it plugged in and it didn't move a bit. If that's the case it could definitely explain some of the mpg. I'll probably try to get a can while I'm up there. The one I have on this distributor is not adjustable onset so I may as well get one that is. I stuck my timing light in the car so it shouldn't be a problem. I'd also like to find a steering wheel, some OEM dizzy weights and maybe a GTA wheel or two.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:00 PM   #162
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The roadkill guys are heading there tomorrow from Indy tomorrow. Maybe you could catch up with them by following them on the glympse app
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:17 PM   #163
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Hahahaha, didn't get to do a ton at the show life intervened and we did kid stuff mostly. There was also a nasty storm on Saturday that caused a lot of people to bail myself included.

Driving wise everything went great except one fatal flaw:My exhaust fell off about 20 minutes after getting on the highway going home! It had started beforehand but that took the cake. Driving was awesome at night (just cool enough to be perfectly pleasant.) Here's my drive log below:

start 97,007
gas 97,027
fill up in Milwaukee before going home 97,192 10.54 gallons (15.65 MPG!)
end 97,330

I'm going to try and top off over the next day or two and see what consumption is. I'd love to have 2 half tanks at about 15.65 mpg. I think that this trip will actually be a bit better due to the exhaust falling off. Sounds stupid but the engine seemed to run a bit better and the outlet on this muffler is something under 2" so I think it was choking badly.

I had said I'd get this car an exhaust when it hit 1K I guess it wanted to make sure I was going to live up to my end of the bargain. Gotta figure out what I want to do now, Summit sells a dual kit for 225ish. After oversize I could see it being 300ish but regardless I don't think I'll do too much better than that. I'll have to get it from the pipes to the manifolds however. I think that I'm really tempted to find a shop and be like "connect this to my manifolds."
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Old 10-07-2015, 11:24 PM   #164
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Well, long time no update. Almost getting to where I'm going to have to put her up for the winter (Extended Antique plates) so I'm probably going to make one or two more runs and fix the exhaust up a bit to get through.

In the mean time I decided to do something important, like get some sound set up!

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4jyuuwlf.jpg

I had to clip the dividers out, as these have tweeters built into them that would have stuck up. They're Cerwin Vegas that were dumpsterdived.



I'm just thankful the Lemans had a hole for 2 speakers. I've read 71 Chevelles do not.



I had to cut some holes for the speakers to come through, and I had the grilles. They say Bose and have Nissan PNs on them. I dumpsterdived them with the speakers. Not much but it'll get me started and is better than nothing.

I have a 4X10 that's blown out up front. I'm trying to figure out what the hell to do with it. The rears are 4 ohms, so I'm thinking of doing something like this.



Anyone ever use a setup like this? I'll probably hook up the fronts and rears in series left to right. To actually drive this setup I'm thinking about using one of these bluetooth/amplifier combinations. According to the auction it's 2X50W which should be about perfect.

TDA7492P 50W 50W Wireless Bluetooth 4 0 Audio Receiver Digital Amplifier Board | eBay
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Old 10-31-2015, 11:27 PM   #165
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Well, that was a crazy night! I'll start from the top. I decided that it was going to be a "last run" night because EA tags go into hibernation come an hour from now.



Started off by getting some fuel and the ever important Jaritos. The gauge is toast so I decided to throw fuel in. I'll have to change it but want to grab a G-body tank and electric pump ultimately so I'm just not motivated.



Blurry, but the stacks at the end of Larkin where it meets with rt 6. Started going west bound.



Here's the burn off from Mobil. Fucking flame is huge. Man I think I was getting cancer just being around the area.



A bit closer, camera didn't like it.



Time to start shooting up 71 North. Goal is to hit 52.



Some major washout on the pic, but it's not every day you drive by a dead air frame along the highway.



DEDICATED TO… ALL FARMERS AND AG RELATED BUSINESSES FOLKS THAT HAVE LIVED THROUGH THE AGRICULTURAL ‘CRASH’ OF THE 1980s”

After this, I cut on to rt 52 and that's when shit got a bit screwy. Was pulling away from a light and it got sideways on the road. After getting back in my lane and puttering on for a few minutes, I had the overheat light come on.



I wound up doing this routine at Jewel. Popping the hood revealed that my fan belt had gone AWOL. As such, I had no water pumping. As a precaution I went in and bought a few gallons of water. After letting it cool for a bit, I replaced the fan belt with an on-hand spare and proceeded to refill the rad. I'm pretty sure when I was pulling away that the overflow dumped water on the ground doing bad things with my tires. After getting a jump due to a poor shape battery I drove it home without further incident.

Tomorrow's goal is to pull plugs and check to see if I wounded her. I don't think so but I need to check it out. There was no signs of moisture coming out of the exhaust so I probably dodged a bullet.

Overall a fun trip and just under 100 miles.
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Old 11-01-2015, 01:05 AM   #166
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That refinery, is that the one of New Ave?
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Old 11-01-2015, 01:12 AM   #167
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That refinery, is that the one of New Ave?
It's the one over by Arsenal Rd and Rte 6. I think you're thinking of Citgo. That one's cool to look at as well.
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Old 11-01-2015, 12:24 PM   #168
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Ya Citgo was the one I was thinking of.

I have enjoyed your build thread, it's not the typical throw a bunch of money just replacing things type of build. I applaud you for going through and actually figuring out how to improve what you have before just upgrading to new tech. I wish I had that kind of patience.
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:00 PM   #169
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April 1st is coming up soon, and that means time to get stuff ready to roll. This years mods include some kind of exhaust work, stereo stuff and this gem.



It's a dizzy from a 1981 Pontiac 301. If you notice there's no canister for vac advance. The reason is it's a fully electronic, one year dizzy. I'm going to use a Megasquirt I or that failing a GM ECU and put a new timing curve in that I like and run the QJ for now. I just can't get the mechanical advance I want easily with the weights I have (either it comes in too late or there's not enough of it) so computers it is.

Audio's going to consist of 2 3.5 or 4" speakers jammed up in the center opening as well as 2 rear 6X9s. Not really optimal but considering the stock setup was a single 4X10 with a dead coil I bet this will be a lot better.

Actually driving the setup is going to be an Ebay Bluetooth/amplifier unit. These are 2X50W and run about $15. It's going to need a 12V hookup and the audio outputs. Besides this, I'm going to hack it a bit and add a set of panel switches as well. The idea is going to be that this will bolt in place of the AM radio without permanent modification. I've been testing one and it rocks, easy to use and easy to set up.

Exhaust is 100% in the air at this point. I keep going back to something like a Summit 2.5" kit but think it would be a headache to tie into the stubs of the existing manifolds. Not to mention a 2.5 setup is way overkill for my paltry 200 gross HP engine but still probably smallish if I ever do anything boosted. The other option on my mind is getting an over axle pipe in 2.5", fixing the merge I hacked up on accident and running a single 2.5" exhaust which is better than the sub 2" exhaust I have now. MIG's gotta play nice for that though and I found out that the roller for my feed mechanism is discontinued.

Lastly on the "luxury" list is going to be a fuel tank and/or sender. Debating on finding a GN tank and jumping that shark, getting a return line enabled sender and running a surge setup with a dual pump (mechanical/electric,) sumping or just saying hell with the whole thing and popping a bulkhead fitting in the tank when I'm ready/using a surge tank and leaving it at that.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:40 PM   #170
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Welp, got this today someone had stolen the thrust assembly from it. That's ebay I guess.



I have a spare dizzy from a Monte SS I stole the thrust setup from, it's probably about 10 thou play. Much better. Haven't stabbed it in yet, but it's coming. I need a connector for it though. Debating what that's going to encompass but it may be a Molex style connector that's inside the vehicle rather than a weather pak setup.

Megasquirt I is up to date and programmed with a base table, I need to find the rest of the case for it, get some wiring done and mount it in the Lemans. Should be only be about a half dozen wires hooked into it since I'm going to pretty well run the distributor only. I may add a CTS (already in the intake) depending so that I can adjust timing on the fly. I'm considering tossing a WB in and using it for datalogging too. It'd really help with the carb till I got off my ass and decided I needed a Rochester 220 or something.

I went out today and bought speakers for the front. I really don't want to hack up my dash or my nice door panels, so I bought some 4" rounds to mount in the single opening that will hook in series with my rear 6X9s. They're 4 ohm like the rears, so I should wind up with a nice optimal 8 ohm setup.



Here you can see the marker where I started figuring out how I wanted to do it. I bought a ton of stuff from Home Depot and was going to use some fiber board as a mount, but decided this would be easier especially after I misplaced the piece I cut.



Here you can see where I took my cutoff wheel in my air grinder and knocked the center out. I ended up doing this on both sides. After that, I took my 4.5" angle grinder and just cut to the profile of the wheel. It was about the perfect size, I had a bit of cleaning up to do with my carbides but not a lot.



Here's the end result. The speakers are just some $50 Pioneers but considering that this car came with a single 4X10 I think these will be a lot better. I bolted this in, and all that's left for the speakers is wiring.

After that, the amount of work I can do on my audio until my other stuff shows up is pretty minimal. I ordered some push button switches that are going to go where the original radio frequency dial is. I'm going to figure out how to mount my bracket and that will be about it.

Lastly, I'm pretty darn excited I found this under the seat.



It's the horn center for the Lemans which I thought was gone. It need some cleanup, but shouldn't be terrible. I had to get a pigtail so I could enable the horn, but it shouldn't be a biggie. They seem to be decent spend on Ebay, so naturally I was pretty happy. I may see if I can find my secondary horn for the Astro and set this up as a dual tone, or even find a few caddy horns and go to 3/4 tone.
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:24 AM   #171
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Love it, keep on bringing the updates!
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Old 03-16-2016, 01:53 AM   #172
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I finished up the majority of the mods to the Megasquirt. All that's left now is to harness it up for when I install it. I have a main relay running off of the battery for the dizzy (it was points, now HEI so I replaced that wire and increased voltage via a direct connect) and I'll end up tapping that for power to the MS unit its self.

MS1/Extra Ignition Hardware Manual

Here's the guide I used to actually set the board up. Lots of tweaking compared to my MS2. What I'm curious about is going to be the fact that the HEI module doesn't use a relay here to control 5V to the tan/black. Looking at the schematic it should work, but I'll likely keep an eye on it with the meter initially. I had some relay wiring issues on my MS2 in the Astro and I wasn't running locked timing for part of my journey through it. I'll also be hitting this up with the timing light to make sure everything is in calibration especially since HEI modules tend to roll off at higher RPM.

On the audio side, I'm waiting on my push button switches because I need to drill the holes for them before I get too excited about mounting the PCB and covering it in metal shavings. I guess I could be wiring stuff.
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:24 PM   #173
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Well, shit. There's not nearly the room down below I thought there was in the Lemans. As much as I hate to do it I may end up sheet metal screwing the ECU into the metal air duct that's taking up the preponderance of the space under dash. I was going to screw it into a free area I uncovered, but then realized that's where the rain goes off the windshield into so I would likely be putting water into the ECU via the screw holes I made. Pass.

Also got my speakers wired up today. I need to get some power set up, my board mounted, the button holes drilled and the buttons wired but she'll be good to go after that. Theoretically I don't even need buttons initially. I got red LED pushbuttons and I'll end up wiring the LEDs into the dash light circuit so that they come on when the other stuff does.

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Old 03-20-2016, 02:48 PM   #174
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Well, that was obnoxious. If I didn't know any better I'd say that the dizzy I had wasn't worth a damn. I popped the cap and found it had an oil ring in it, and besides that I also found the source of my no start. It appears the capacitor they used with the module is burned up, so who knows if the module is still any good or not. Swapped in the 81 dizzy, hooked it up, tweaked the timing a bit and it fired right up. I set base to 0 degrees and will do the rest of my magic via the Megasquirt for now, although I may put it at 10 so it's more "limpable."



I also did some more research in my GTO Restoration Guide (A good source of info for the A-body Pontiac, even if the guy who wrote it seems like he wants to jerk off with Zaino or something) and found out that they installed an optional reverb unit in these cars, and it was right above the glove box. A bit of a pain in the ass for servicing, but hey if it's dry I'll just run a cable down and it can stay there. It will probably also make a serial cable a fairly permanent thing in case I ever have to tune it.

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Old 04-03-2016, 11:27 PM   #175
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Installed the Megasquirt I, and after messing with the trigger offset, setting the output to non inverted, dicking with timing a bit and a few other things she seems to start up and rev/idle really well. I've theorized that timing control is the big advantage of EFI, so I'm just about ready to put that to the test. Engine response seems excellent so I can't wait to get my tire reseated so I can see if it made any power difference. At some level I'd love to buy a balancer with integral timing marks, a Pontiac is dirt easy to do a balancer on they're slip on/off none of this SBC press bullshit.

It may or may not stop me from building a surge tank/Throwing a Rochester 220 TBI unit on this in the medium term but I'm a test drive away from checking on improved drivability and starting to tune it in a bit more. I easily think there's some area under the curve to be had with this system, and I need a new timing tape to see how much slew this HEI module has in it. I think I'll be adding say 3-5 degress on the higher RPMs based on what I've read.

With the Megasquirt I I give up stuff like Idle Air, but meh who cares? I think it'll run okay without it. Carbs never really had it ultimately they had some mechanical facilities that substituted for it at times but that's about it. I can always find a Ford idle solenoid anyways.
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