1994 B4C Camaro, Turbo LS1 Build
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Pulled the ol LT1 out a few months ago. It was running great but it was time for some aluminum block goodness.
Next up... status of the LS1 situash.
Next up... status of the LS1 situash.
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When I saw the "B4C" title I was hoping for a PD motif for the paint job. Always love a car with history like that. Keep the pics coming anyways, this should be fun. I thought LS9 HGs and the LSA heads were the hot ticket for boost these days tbh. I think they require a 6L bore however. Plan on more fuel pump, a stick in the back and in good probability some new undies.
Very cool man and I think you are the first turbo 4th gen camaro on the site. Seems like everyone turbo's the TA's for whatever reason. Have any questions, I'm sure we can lend some idea's. If you didn't already buy the fast 90/90, consider picking up an ls6 intake for much cheaper and use that money toward injectors and dual walbro pumps. Also, the hot ticket for headgaskets right now seems to be the LS9 MLS gaskets. I believe that is what eagle is using now. Depending on what fuel and boost pressures you are looking to push I'd say 80lbers would be sufficient. If you want to go e85 consider larger injectors like 95lbers or 120's. Just giving some input. Keep us updated on your build. I will say that when I started mine I knew very little about turbo setups and you'd be surprised what you can pick up in a year. Josh makes good stuff, what turbo did you end up going with? PT7675?
You can get away with 4.000 bore heads and gaskets on a 3.900 bore cylinder. The problem is if you use a 3.900 head gasket with a 4.000 head as some hangs out. At least that is my understanding. More pump definitely. I run e85 and have no issues with my Lonnies dual intank walboro setup, hobs switch, and hotwire kit.
Thanks for the warm welcome fellas!
Looks like I have some more turbo LS1 setups to check out...
Some more background - when I decided to swap an LS1 in, it was just going to be a heads/cam/nitrous car. Hence the FAST 90/90, nitrous plate kit, 255 fuel pump, red top injectors, etc. I even had a pair of PRC stage 2.5 heads ready to bolt on (now sold). Then I got the turbo itch...
The car was built to be a cop car, but was never in service as one. I'm the 3rd or 4th owner and she's in pretty decent shape. But not so nice that I want to baby it all the time!
Willizm, thanks for the insight. When I said LS7 head gaskets I meant LS9. They're sitting in my garage right now. Looks like I'll be shopping for a new fuel pump setup tho (anyone want to buy a new Racetronix walboro 255 kit for an LT1 F-body lol??). And as attractive as e85 is, for now I want to set it up for 93. Maybe I'll go with 95 or 120 pounders to keep that option open.
As far as the turbo - I haven't actually bought the kit yet. My plan is for the standard TC76 that he offers? This is what's on my shopping list from Mr. Josh:
-TC76 standard A/C setup
-Alternator Relocation Bracket
-Oil Feed and Drain lines
-Pusher Fan setup
-Aftermarket Radiator
-Stainless Steel Pipes
By the end of the week I should have on order the following:
-Mcleod RXT clutch package from Tick performance including balanced flywheel, Tick master, speed bleeder, ARP flywheel bolts, etc.
-BMR turbo K-member
And right now I have the following on the way:
-wiring harness shipped to John at Speartech to convert to plug-n-play right into my chassis
-LS1 engine mounts in the mail to my house (need to get some prothane inserts on order...)
Thanks again guys! Really looking forward to documenting this build. And I can already tell that you all have a lot of great knowledge I can [hopefully] tap into!
Next up are some pictures of the goods
Looks like I have some more turbo LS1 setups to check out...
Some more background - when I decided to swap an LS1 in, it was just going to be a heads/cam/nitrous car. Hence the FAST 90/90, nitrous plate kit, 255 fuel pump, red top injectors, etc. I even had a pair of PRC stage 2.5 heads ready to bolt on (now sold). Then I got the turbo itch...
The car was built to be a cop car, but was never in service as one. I'm the 3rd or 4th owner and she's in pretty decent shape. But not so nice that I want to baby it all the time!
Willizm, thanks for the insight. When I said LS7 head gaskets I meant LS9. They're sitting in my garage right now. Looks like I'll be shopping for a new fuel pump setup tho (anyone want to buy a new Racetronix walboro 255 kit for an LT1 F-body lol??). And as attractive as e85 is, for now I want to set it up for 93. Maybe I'll go with 95 or 120 pounders to keep that option open.
As far as the turbo - I haven't actually bought the kit yet. My plan is for the standard TC76 that he offers? This is what's on my shopping list from Mr. Josh:
-TC76 standard A/C setup
-Alternator Relocation Bracket
-Oil Feed and Drain lines
-Pusher Fan setup
-Aftermarket Radiator
-Stainless Steel Pipes
By the end of the week I should have on order the following:
-Mcleod RXT clutch package from Tick performance including balanced flywheel, Tick master, speed bleeder, ARP flywheel bolts, etc.
-BMR turbo K-member
And right now I have the following on the way:
-wiring harness shipped to John at Speartech to convert to plug-n-play right into my chassis
-LS1 engine mounts in the mail to my house (need to get some prothane inserts on order...)
Thanks again guys! Really looking forward to documenting this build. And I can already tell that you all have a lot of great knowledge I can [hopefully] tap into!
Next up are some pictures of the goods
1) TSP 347 Shortblock. Bought it used locally. Supposedly only has 5k miles on it. Looks to be in pretty good shape. Has afore mentioned cam installed, forged pistons w/ -2cc valve reliefs, forged rods, ARP hardware, ported LS6 oil pump.
2) 317 heads FRESH from the machine shop (just picked them up today!!!). PRC dual valvesprings, titanium retainers, new seals, new locks. Combustion chambers measured at 71.5cc. Again, will be used with LS9 head gaskets. Also have ARP head studs (came with bottom end).
3) C6 exhaust manifolds. Had them cleaned up at the machine shop. Shot peened. Look brand new - too bad they won't stay that clean.
4) Intake setup. I put some time into this guy. It's a FAST 90/NW 90, shaved, sanded, primered, new gasket'ed, new hardwar'ed, intake. Has red top injectors installed (0 miles since Deatchwerks servicing) and nitrous outlet plate setup mocked up. And now that I'm going turbo I'm not sure that I'll even realize that much gain from the 90/90? Thoughts on this?
2) 317 heads FRESH from the machine shop (just picked them up today!!!). PRC dual valvesprings, titanium retainers, new seals, new locks. Combustion chambers measured at 71.5cc. Again, will be used with LS9 head gaskets. Also have ARP head studs (came with bottom end).
3) C6 exhaust manifolds. Had them cleaned up at the machine shop. Shot peened. Look brand new - too bad they won't stay that clean.
4) Intake setup. I put some time into this guy. It's a FAST 90/NW 90, shaved, sanded, primered, new gasket'ed, new hardwar'ed, intake. Has red top injectors installed (0 miles since Deatchwerks servicing) and nitrous outlet plate setup mocked up. And now that I'm going turbo I'm not sure that I'll even realize that much gain from the 90/90? Thoughts on this?
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Josh makes some bad ass kits thats for sure and he's not lying when he says it takes a while to get the kit out to you. It's worth the wait and he's always a good guy to shoot the shit with. I have a TC78 and my honest recommendation is if you can afford it go with a PT7675. I think he stopped carrying the TC turbo's anyway last time I spoke to him. The reason why is I'm running into backpressure up top due to the 68mm turbine wheel(.96 ar) whereas the pt7675 has a 75mm turbine wheel(IIRC) and should theoretically give me better top end power without hitting back pressure. I'd imagine with your similar cam spec and displacement to mine you'd run into the same issue with shades of grey. Also depending on how you and josh agree to have your downpipe ran make sure you bring up what motor mounts you are using. Not sure if you are just using the stock clamshell type or going with something like motavative motor mounts. Reason I say that is I was going to pickup some other brand and Josh told me the dp wouldn't fit how I wanted it routed. Ended up with motavative mounts which he uses in his clips.
Just noticed you said turbo k member so that might work great for him to route the downpipe. There is also another local guy that is comperable to Josh. A guy on here named Dan has a hot and cold side that he had made. Dan's user name is PheonixTA here. Here is his build thread. Might be worth chatting to the guy that fabbed his kit.
http://www.thechicagogarage.com/forum/member-builds/118772-my-2012-turbo-build-*lots-pics*.html
Just noticed you said turbo k member so that might work great for him to route the downpipe. There is also another local guy that is comperable to Josh. A guy on here named Dan has a hot and cold side that he had made. Dan's user name is PheonixTA here. Here is his build thread. Might be worth chatting to the guy that fabbed his kit.
http://www.thechicagogarage.com/forum/member-builds/118772-my-2012-turbo-build-*lots-pics*.html
All good stuff, there is no issue with using the 90/90 by any means. I'm sure it will work great and may give a little more power, but look at it like this. I'm just going to throw numbers out, they don't mean anything. Say you can sell that 90/90 for $800(i don't know how much they go for) and pickup an ls6 intake for $200. Well that $600 you could use to upgrade from a tc78 turbo to a pt7675 and have better spool and more power than just keeping the 90/90. However, I'm a big fan of using what you got at hand as well. Just something to consider.
Even more great info! Thanks again.
Interesting about the backpressure... so if I'm following you correctly, you're saying that since the pressure drop is smaller across a larger turbine wheel, exhaust gasses are less inclined to be "pushed" back into the combustion chamber? Makes sense to me. I can't remember your cam specs - about what are you running?
I've had a few PM exchanges with Josh but I really need to give him a call and sort out the details. And I'm glad you mentioned the engine mount deal - I just bought some used factory clamshell types on Tuesday but I'm definitely going to look into the Motavative ones. For now I am under the impression that the turbo k member has sufficient clearance with the stock mounts. And wow... Dan's hot side is a piece of work. I might have to look up his fabricator.
Again, I really appreciate the insight.
And one more picture for now - RPM stage V T-56. Recently converted from LT1 duty with LS1 input shaft, midplate and bellhousing:
Interesting about the backpressure... so if I'm following you correctly, you're saying that since the pressure drop is smaller across a larger turbine wheel, exhaust gasses are less inclined to be "pushed" back into the combustion chamber? Makes sense to me. I can't remember your cam specs - about what are you running?
I've had a few PM exchanges with Josh but I really need to give him a call and sort out the details. And I'm glad you mentioned the engine mount deal - I just bought some used factory clamshell types on Tuesday but I'm definitely going to look into the Motavative ones. For now I am under the impression that the turbo k member has sufficient clearance with the stock mounts. And wow... Dan's hot side is a piece of work. I might have to look up his fabricator.
Again, I really appreciate the insight.
And one more picture for now - RPM stage V T-56. Recently converted from LT1 duty with LS1 input shaft, midplate and bellhousing:
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Yeah send Dan a PM if you are interested. I know he has had high remarks for the quality of the kit and seeing that he's a local fabricator it might be easier for him to fab something given you have the k member. it might not be as big of an issue with the motor mounts given the k member because you'll have more clearance instead of how I did it and around the steering. It's pretty tight. My cam is a 225/225 .581/.581 113 lsa. similar, but of course not the same. I spoke to josh at length about that turbo and he see's that turbine wheel being the bottle neck. Also believe it or not in my dp->cutout->magnaflow catback I'm only losing 10whp at 17.5psi with the cutout closed. So my backpressure has got to be that turbine wheel.
Thanks again guys! Really appreciate the welcome and the input.
Looks like I'm definitely going to have to step up to a larger turbine to avoid backpressure issues, but any thoughts on how it will effect spool? I'm big on the fun-to-drive factor and I really don't want to have to rev this thing to oblivion to get spooled up.
I'm tempted to sell the intake and pick up an LS6 setup and some cash, but I have a lot of time and money tied up in refinishing it and in the nitrous setup. Going to have to kick that idea around some.
The motovative mounts are solid aren't they? I'm not sure how I'd like that if I ever DD'd the car. I had prothane mounts on the LT1 setup and I noticed a lot more vibration but it was tolerable.
So far the cribbing under the jackstands has worked pretty well! They were simple to make and hopefully I'll have a use for them when this project is done.
I'm starting to put together a list of OE LS1 parts that I still need... so far it looks something like this:
-Power steering pump and hoses
-Valve covers. Need to weld fittings on for PCV (speaking of PCV, I was just going to run the valve covers to a vented catch can... thoughts??)
-A/C compressor, mounting hardware and lines. My understanding is that at least one adapter fitting will have to be swedged on to meet up with LT1 style condenser.
-Alternator
-Starter
...
Hey Mr. Roboto - I was reading through your build and noticed that you were considering an LT1 intake/fuel setup. I've got my entire LT1 that I'm trying to get rid of. If you were interested and could pick it up I'd practically give it away. Picture:
Looks like I'm definitely going to have to step up to a larger turbine to avoid backpressure issues, but any thoughts on how it will effect spool? I'm big on the fun-to-drive factor and I really don't want to have to rev this thing to oblivion to get spooled up.
I'm tempted to sell the intake and pick up an LS6 setup and some cash, but I have a lot of time and money tied up in refinishing it and in the nitrous setup. Going to have to kick that idea around some.
The motovative mounts are solid aren't they? I'm not sure how I'd like that if I ever DD'd the car. I had prothane mounts on the LT1 setup and I noticed a lot more vibration but it was tolerable.
So far the cribbing under the jackstands has worked pretty well! They were simple to make and hopefully I'll have a use for them when this project is done.
I'm starting to put together a list of OE LS1 parts that I still need... so far it looks something like this:
-Power steering pump and hoses
-Valve covers. Need to weld fittings on for PCV (speaking of PCV, I was just going to run the valve covers to a vented catch can... thoughts??)
-A/C compressor, mounting hardware and lines. My understanding is that at least one adapter fitting will have to be swedged on to meet up with LT1 style condenser.
-Alternator
-Starter
...
Hey Mr. Roboto - I was reading through your build and noticed that you were considering an LT1 intake/fuel setup. I've got my entire LT1 that I'm trying to get rid of. If you were interested and could pick it up I'd practically give it away. Picture:
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I have a set of the crates for my car as well and I love them
Haha thanks! And nice Cobra. Yea I forsee those crates being turned into some classy bachpad furniture someday...
I'm starting to think ahead to my oil supply/return - I'm planning on a CBR Performance distribution block for supply, but I'm not sure about the return. I know it'll be a -10AN fitting, and I know I want to have it welded onto the oil pan vs. tapping the timing cover, but I'm not sure exactly where I want to put it. Willizm - I stole this picture off of one of your posts - how did you decide to locate the fitting here? How's it working out for you?
I'm starting to think ahead to my oil supply/return - I'm planning on a CBR Performance distribution block for supply, but I'm not sure about the return. I know it'll be a -10AN fitting, and I know I want to have it welded onto the oil pan vs. tapping the timing cover, but I'm not sure exactly where I want to put it. Willizm - I stole this picture off of one of your posts - how did you decide to locate the fitting here? How's it working out for you?
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speaking of the old engine, how much would you let it go for? ive got a buddy with a 96 camaro with a blown motor. maybe we can make somthin happen!
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