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Old 02-23-2012, 07:53 PM   #1
 
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Default electrical/starting issue

Hi. Didn't really want this to be my first post/thread on this forum so I apologize from the get-go.

ok. i'm stumped (or more just don't want to likely acknowledge what the problem is besides my drinking). here goes:

I put the key into the ignition, turn the key, get full power, hear fuel pump, and when I go to crank it just dies. completely. all i hear is a little "clink" and its dead. in order to get power back, I have to disconnect/reconnect the battery. i'm guessing short/bad ground somewhere?!?!

What i've done so far: (1) replaced starter; (2) replaced starter relay; (3) replaced positive battery wire from battery to fuse box with 2 gauge cable (because of massive corrosion); and (4) replaced 18 inches of the other positive battery cable via 2 gauge cable and a power block.

What I'm doing now: drinking and swearing a bunch.

thanks for any help or advice.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:06 PM   #2
 
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did you check the grounds?
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:11 PM   #3
 
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Grounds look "ok" from quick visual inspection. Thinking I may just have to replace the grounds.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:21 PM   #4
 
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Just am lost because it was fine one minute and then acting up the next. First I got a clanking sound repeatedly when trying to start it up. Then after I replaced the positive battery leads, this happens.

Only other thing, but can't see how this would be remotely related, is I installed a dead pedal and immediately after I adjusted it after a week of use, this happens.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:47 PM   #5
 
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How does the car start with a new or battery on a high amp charger?
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:47 PM   #6
 
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and what is a dead pedal? when u installed it did you by chance piece or cut a wire?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:02 PM   #7
 
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Battery is less than 5 months old so I haven't replaced it. I did have it checked out and FLAPS said it was good.

A nothing pedal for your left foot to rest. Marauders had nothing for your left foot to rest on. Imagine a clutch pedal but no "give". Will get pics of the dead pedal and where it was installed tomorrow. Checked the wiring around where it was installed and it looked good.

I appreciate the help brainstorming on this.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:03 PM   #8
 
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1) Take a look at the wire harness to the right of the master cylinder, there is a metal arm that supports the wiper cowl. Look behind it and check if any of the wires are frayed.

2) If all is fine then remove the serpentine belt and try to crank the car. The alt pully or ac pully may be locked up
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:12 PM   #9
 
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Those are good suggestions, musclemerc. I like the belt suggestion, but if a pulley was locked up would it cause all the electrical to die? I have no idea and electrical stuff is not my forte. Regardless, will give those look/try tomorrow.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:31 PM   #10
 
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Try those out first before I go to my worse case scenario.

You 100% the battery is OK? Post up a youtube of what happens when you try to start it. You mentioned a clanking sound earlier, that could be something major.

If the battery is 100% OK
The starter is a NEW and not remanufactured part
you replaced all the + positive wires
you verified the engine ground is OK

There's nothing left, only a few things to stop a car from starting, fuel, fire, a faulty PCM, etc.

But gain the clanking, tells me something else is wrong.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:52 PM   #11
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Is there a chip in the car?
What is the theft light doing?

Did you bypass the neutral safety switch?
Did you check the 10a pcm fuse?
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:35 PM   #12
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Sounds like the battery has an internal short. It may be generating voltage but no amperage.
Try jumping it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 06:28 AM   #13
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Get under the car, disconnect the crank position sensor then jump the terminals on the starter with a screwdriver.
This will rule out the battery, cables and starter all in one shot.

I have a feeling you have a PATS issue ans don't realize it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:11 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musclemerc View Post
Try those out first before I go to my worse case scenario.

You 100% the battery is OK? Post up a youtube of what happens when you try to start it. You mentioned a clanking sound earlier, that could be something major.

If the battery is 100% OK
The starter is a NEW and not remanufactured part
you replaced all the + positive wires
you verified the engine ground is OK

There's nothing left, only a few things to stop a car from starting, fuel, fire, a faulty PCM, etc.

But gain the clanking, tells me something else is wrong.
I think I will re-wire the engine ground tomorrow just to be sure. I pulled the "new" starter off a running 04 towncar with low miles to see if it was the starter. I could always buy a new one from the FLAPS to rule it out 100%.

Will try and post a vid later today of what is happening. Just got a new smart phone and am trying to figure it out but it should be easy to do video to internet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
Is there a chip in the car?
What is the theft light doing?

Did you bypass the neutral safety switch?
Did you check the 10a pcm fuse?
Chip? No. Tune? Yes (not trying to be a smart ass but there is a difference in the physical nature of installation so I am trying to be accurate). Actually, the car was purchased with one of your tunes. runs good (when it ran).

PATS light on top of dash is flashing at what i would consider "normal" intervals (every few seconds). Cant remember if there is a theft light in the dash itself but if there is, it isn't flashing.

No to neutral safety switch. Not really sure how to do this.

Will check 10a pcm fuse this evening when home. Real work is unforetunately messing my day up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon01 View Post
Sounds like the battery has an internal short. It may be generating voltage but no amperage.
Try jumping it.
Interesting thought and I was wondering this myself. I raised it with the FLAPS dude and he assured me all was good but those guys never give me a warm fuzzy feeling. I may actually just swap out the battery to be safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
Get under the car, disconnect the crank position sensor then jump the terminals on the starter with a screwdriver.
This will rule out the battery, cables and starter all in one shot.

I have a feeling you have a PATS issue ans don't realize it.
Will also try and jump the shark...errr...starter also later. Really hope PATS isn't the case and that I'm just a [email protected]
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:51 PM   #15
 
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Figured it out and I am a [email protected] Was as simple as the effing battery. Swapped the battery out with a gel top I have in another car and it fired right up. I just purchased the marauder battery 3 months ago and has a build date of 4 months ago. I was positive that wasnt it. Flame on.....

Thank you for the VERY helpful suggestions.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:05 PM   #16
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It happens more than you would think. It probably just had an internal short. They'll show voltage but put a load on them and they won't perform.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:34 PM   #17
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Your screen name is very fitting dontcha think???



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Old 02-24-2012, 04:10 PM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
Your screen name is very fitting dontcha think???





Think I finally found one that fits.

I will say though, through this whole ordeal, I figured out how to replace a starter in an 03+ panther in about 30-35 minutes. Learn something everyday, no matter how dumb I look doing it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:25 PM   #19
 
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Keep an eye on the new battery though. You may have an charging problem or a short somewhere to kill a new battery like that. Unless you cheaped out on the previous battery. Does it say Made in China on it?
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huh?! View Post

What I'm doing now: drinking and swearing a bunch.


We've all been there. Glad it's going again.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
Get under the car, disconnect the crank position sensor then jump the terminals on the starter with a screwdriver.
This will rule out the battery, cables and starter all in one shot.

I have a feeling you have a PATS issue ans don't realize it.
What does disconnecting the crank sensor do Zack? Guessing crank but no start to rule out PATS?





Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Keep an eye on the new battery though. You may have an charging problem or a short somewhere to kill a new battery like that. Unless you cheaped out on the previous battery. Does it say Made in China on it?
+1 Check for a short. With a multimeter set on miliamps, you should see a reading of around .035 to .045 ish for normal draw with key off. I just went thru this on the wifes 05 minivan and found a current draw of 1.1 amps IIRC due to a faulty door lock circuit stuck in safety mode within the body control module.
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