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Old 12-18-2018, 10:25 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by zenriddles View Post
Oh my God.

I'm afraid of getting 'likes' from the anti-gun crowd.

I think that 'machine guns' have been banned for a while, only grandfathered stuff available.

Under that premise, I think a Bump-Stock is something that very effectively replicates a machine gun. Why were they ever tolerated under the anti-machine gun ban?

They already banned machine guns a long time ago because it was decided we should not have fully automatic weapons in private hands.

Then my question is this - do we continue to ban anything that can continuous fire until empty with one pull of the trigger or do we not continue the ban?
I think a Bump-stock is a fully automatic bullet delivery device, too.

I am OK with it being legal, for what it's worth. I just don't think it is legal under the full auto ban.

The current law states “The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b), defines a machine gun to include any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.”

Note: single function of the trigger... they need to follow the law that is written, not “ban machine guns that shoot fast”. The determination of what constitutes a machine gun is basically multiple rounds fired with one action of the trigger. A bump stock works by using the recoil of the gun to pull the trigger quickly. ATF has already made a determination that a bump stock isn’t a machine gun. The president can’t just decide it is because he wants to ban them. They can’t just change the wording of the law to make it fit the operation of a bump stock

TL;DR: this will go to court and get overturned and bump stocks will be legal again
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:32 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Chester Copperpot View Post
Your two stage triggers are now banned because you can dump a magazine in <6 seconds. Those are pointless, right?

Your red dot sight is now banned because it allows you to acquire targets quickly. Pointless, right?

Your high powered scope is now banned because it allows you to kill someone from far away. Clearly pointless.

Enjoy your slope, fellas.
I agree, but there’s already a laundry list of firearm related objects that are banned and I don’t think there’s anything that suggests now that bump stocks have been added, that the rate of banning will increase. This hardly marks a turning point. I’m not happy about it, but it is what it is

Imo it makes a hell of a lot more sense to regulate Bump stocks than it does suppressors, for example, but what do I know

Hopefully they don’t touch binary triggers. You can actually aim with those while dumping a mag at full auto speeds
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Old 12-18-2018, 11:50 PM   #28
 
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LOL
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:12 AM   #29
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The gun haters push one way, the gun lovers push the other. The line goes back and forth. As long as it doesn't go too far in one direction, that's probably OK.

As mentioned, it's a slope not an end result.. for both sides.

Personally, I don't want my idiot, drunk neighbor having a nuke and I don't want to not be able to defend myself and my family so I guess the middle is OK.

I get concerned when I see end runs usually by the gun haters. "Hey, we can't ban the guns so let's buy all the ammo." Drive the price way up so gun owners can't afford to buy a lot.
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:12 AM   #30
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I still can’t believe this is happening while a “republican” is in the White House
Sarcasm?

Reagan was one of the best things that happened to gun control.
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:16 AM   #31
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In Venezuela, they confiscated all the guns. Government there didn't want opponents to have guns. Of course, the police, military and connected gangs kept theirs. Criminals did, too. Law abiding citizens were the ones who have no defense while their country is falling apart around them.

I think most governments evolve into this same type of thinking. Taking guns away = more/easier control. It's not a REP/DEM thing as much as a control the citizenry thing.

Trump's probably just doing it to grab some middle of the road, anti gun votes while not losing many from his hard core support.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:58 AM   #32
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Former ATF gun analyst shows how you can make a semi automatic mimic an automatic using your finger. Ban fingers!

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Old 12-19-2018, 04:59 AM   #33
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Is this a repost?
Mentioned in the Trump thread, but not gonna say that counts.

In terms of the law, I am really truthfully not sure they have the authority to do this. Between the GCA of 68 and the NFA of 34, fully automatic is fairly clearly defined and it means that you get more than one bullet per pull of the trigger. If you look at previous rulings on gatling guns they say that it's not a FA weapon because it requires continuous actuation. By that standard bumpfire stocks wouldn't be FA either. I'm sure that whatever court it's challenged in will provide some sort of squishy reason why it's justified.

Then again, IMO there's a lot of question to me around the "sporting purposes" stuff in later regulations. The first statement of the second amendment is "to establish a militia." I would think that has nothing to do with sporting purposes. At the bare minimum I would think that would mean capabilities similar or equal to a standard infantryman of the day.
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Old 12-19-2018, 07:29 AM   #34
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Mentioned in the Trump thread, but not gonna say that counts.

In terms of the law, I am really truthfully not sure they have the authority to do this. Between the GCA of 68 and the NFA of 34, fully automatic is fairly clearly defined and it means that you get more than one bullet per pull of the trigger. If you look at previous rulings on gatling guns they say that it's not a FA weapon because it requires continuous actuation. By that standard bumpfire stocks wouldn't be FA either. I'm sure that whatever court it's challenged in will provide some sort of squishy reason why it's justified.

Then again, IMO there's a lot of question to me around the "sporting purposes" stuff in later regulations. The first statement of the second amendment is "to establish a militia." I would think that has nothing to do with sporting purposes. At the bare minimum I would think that would mean capabilities similar or equal to a standard infantryman of the day.

The actual verbiage is “single function of the trigger”. That’s an important distinction and why binary triggers are still legal since they consider a pull and release of the trigger 2 separate functions.


Either way I see this going to court
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:06 AM   #35
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Former ATF gun analyst shows how you can make a semi automatic mimic an automatic using your finger. Ban fingers!

Yup... Me and @N20GT were bump firing at my family farm since before shootings were popular
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:30 AM   #36
 
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I still can’t believe this is happening while a “republican” is in the White House

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Old 12-19-2018, 08:33 AM   #37
 
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Meh, no fucks. It's a "feel good" move to make Anit-Libs shut up.

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Old 12-19-2018, 08:38 AM   #38
 
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Originally Posted by zenriddles View Post
Then my question is this - do we continue to ban anything that can continuous fire until empty with one pull of the trigger or do we not continue the ban?
I think a Bump-stock is a fully automatic bullet delivery device, too.

It's not though. A bump stock uses the weapons recoil to essentially take your finger off the trigger and pull it again. It's not a hold down the trigger and the gun shoots until the magazine is empty.


Put a 3# trigger on an 8# AR and you can get it to "bounce" as well.


Use a belt loop and you can get it to "bounce" as well....




I think some of you are missing what Carter mentioned, now that they're deciding what they can take away based on rate of fire (not an actual change in the firing like burst or full auto), they can easily apply this logic to any trigger job, aftermarket trigger, binary trigger, etc.)


Oh, you have an AR with a Geiselle trigger? That's now banned. You have 90 days to remove your $200 trigger and put in a Milspec one that has not been modified at all, no polishing, no lighter springs, nothing.



IF you have an aftermarket trigger you are now a felon.


You guys okay with that?
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:45 AM   #39
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The bump stock has the exact same cloudy fear around it that silencers do.

Bump stocks do not turn your gun into an automatic weapon, period, end stop, you're 100% wrong if you think they do. Just like 99.99% of the fear mongering about guns in general. Literally by definition it is not an automatic weapon and can't do as such. One trigger pull, one bullet. Doesn't matter how fast it fires. Unless you guys are perfectly fine with congress legislating how fast you can fire your gun. Which to me it sounds like you guys are perfectly fine with it if you agree with this ban.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:47 AM   #40
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absofuckinglutely.

the people in here saying "don't care, they're silly" are getting it ALL wrong.

you 1000% should care.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:57 AM   #41
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absofuckinglutely.

the people in here saying "don't care, they're silly" are getting it ALL wrong.

you 1000% should care.
But I don't. There will always be restrictions and regulations on firearms. This is a very very small loss since the premise behind it is retarded anyways. It's a product that was produced with the sole purpose to get around a previously released regulation. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes works both ways. It is most definitely a middle ground. Dems want to ban 15+ round mags, that won't get passed.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:59 AM   #42
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I believe the proper term for some of you here is Fudd.

You don't actually care about your freedom, you just think guns are a cool thing to have and "oh well, government knows best".

Change my mind.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:01 AM   #43
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cool to take this now, what will be "cool" for them to take in 10-15 years.

seriously.

give an inch, they take a mile.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:04 AM   #44
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I believe the proper term for some of you here is Fudd.

You don't actually care about your freedom, you just think guns are a cool thing to have and "oh well, government knows best".

Change my mind.
I like my freedom, I like my liberty and I like my guns. I also believe in a civilized society. A gun is a tool, not a social statement. Why in the fuck would you want a bump stock outside of trying to make sweet youtube videos? These are absolute shit for accuracy.

Change MY mind.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:07 AM   #45
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"Why do you need X."

That's the road you go down.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:07 AM   #46
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I'll likely never build an AR (or really any gun for that matter) from parts.

We should likely ban the sale of all gun parts because you know, building a gun from scratch is retarded leave that to the manufacturers.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:08 AM   #47
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"Why do you need X."

That's the road you go down.
exactly.

i don't give a fuck if you own an automatic goddamn rocket launcher mounted to a prius.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:13 AM   #48
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exactly.

i don't give a fuck if you own an automatic goddamn rocket launcher mounted to a prius.
As long as there are people trying to ban guns entirely, there will be people who think we should have the right sell tanks at used car dealers. Both are wrong. You are just as bad as the gun grabbers.

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"Why do you need X."

That's the road you go down.
NEWS FLASH!!!! We are well down that road. Be reasonable. That goes for both sides. A bump stock is not reasonable.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:13 AM   #49
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fucking K


you don't understand. clearly.
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Old 12-19-2018, 10:14 AM   #50
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It's the whole slippery slope thing.

Even if you don't care for bump stocks (I never wanted one), you should resist this and any other seemingly innocuous "gun law" since it's an attack on your rights. Now that the anti-gun left got this "win", they will be emboldened and WILL be coming after more, guaranteed. You like your AR-15 and magazines that hold more than 10 rounds? Well, you can kiss those goodbye soon and expect a bigger push for "red flag laws" too.

As a gun owner, I'm sick and tired of being continuously persecuted and just want to be left the fuck alone. Enough of this shit already!

Probably the saddest part of this story is that Trump gave the anti-gun crowd this ban and got NOTHING in return. He could have negotiated national reciprocity in return for the bump stocks, but for some reason this "master dealmaker" didn't even bother. Honestly, WTF? And don't even get me started on "red flag" laws.
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