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Old 02-08-2016, 09:24 AM   #1
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Default Travis Haley ND caught on film...



So if you watch the full video, he's critiquing a bad Russian trigger finger form technique. Some videos out there are trying to paint this as a much more negligent issue than it is in my opinion, but the fact remains... accidents happen and following the basic safety rules still prevent injuries as a result of a AD/ND occurring.

Lots of folks out there saying that if you spend enough time around weapons, AD/ND's will occur and that its only a matter of time.

I've often wondered if that's really the case or not... but somehow, I get peace of mind seeing that it can even happen to the professionals out there *and* that even when it does, proper training and safety guidelines prevented injury in this particular case.

BE SAFE OUT THERE FOLKS!
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:58 AM   #2
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What I'll say about that is one shouldn't "expect" to have a negligent discharge. That being said there's a reason that there's a principle of "four rules" vs a single rule. It's so that you have to fail to heed multiple rules before issues happen. In this case, he had the gun pointed to a safe direction so the consequences of this ND will likely amount to little more than getting shit from armchair experts such as myself.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:11 AM   #3
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You know me. There is no such thing as an AD, only negligent. You don't accidentally forget your rules, you neglect the rules and cause an issue, hence ND.

HOWEVER.

The ONLY instance I can see someone claiming an AD is this example here. A professional in a controlled, safe environment explaining something as such. He was explaining exactly why he hates those grips and the reason why he hates them happened: ND.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:42 AM   #4
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Well put^

Looks like the camera man was at the 3 o'clock position and everyone else there was behind the firearm and the firearm was pointed down range. So if there's any best case scenario of an ND this would probably be it lol.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:41 AM   #5
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Anyone know what happens to a LEO if they have a ND?
@093LZ ?
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:52 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
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Anyone know what happens to a LEO if they have a ND?
@093LZ ?
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:03 PM   #7
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Har har. My inquiry is in fact sir, a serious one.
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:03 PM   #8
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lol'd pretty fucking hard
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:09 PM   #9
 
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he probably shouldn't have had the gun loaded and chambered doing a video on how its unsafe to hold your finger with a loaded weapon
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:11 PM   #10
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he probably shouldn't have had the gun loaded and chambered doing a video on how its unsafe to hold your finger with a loaded weapon
Negligence, there are no AD's.
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:17 PM   #11
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Ever have one Carter?
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:22 PM   #12
 
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I have but different circumstances, I had a accidental double tap shooting some hot 440 grain stuff out of my 500, I'm still not sure if it was a malfunction or if I actually pulled the trigger twice due to recoil but it was so fast it recoiled as one shot and it scared the crap out of me
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:27 PM   #13
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Ever have one Carter?
Nope. I knew plenty of guys who did though. I guess having never touched a gun in my life until having some dude screaming at me for 3 months straight about rifle safety and then on the firing line about muzzle awareness and trigger awareness, it gets burned into your soul.
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Old 02-08-2016, 02:14 PM   #14
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As soon as he started putting his finger inside the trigger guard, I knew it was an accident waiting to happen. Sure enough..

I recently witnessed an ND at the range. Was letting a friend shoot my M&P when he suddenly stopped, then looked down at the trigger and started fiddling with it. I began to ask him "what the hell are you doing?" when all of a sudden - BANG

Turns out he had his finger on the upper part of the trigger and it wouldn't fire. Anyone who is familiar with M&P's, XD's, Glocks, or any other gun that has a trigger safety will know that you must depress the trigger a certain way to disengage the safety. I bet most of us never even gave it a second thought since the gun usually fires when we press the trigger normally. In this case, his finger was too high and the trigger wouldn't move. He started fiddling with it and ended up accidentally firing it. It was pointed in a safe direction though, so no worries, but still kind of freaky.
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
Anyone know what happens to a LEO if they have a ND?
@093LZ ?
Your department gets mentioned in the LA Times if you do it enough........................

Rise in accidental gunshots by L.A. County deputies follows new firearm - LA Times

This is why stupid shit exists like the NYPD and their 12lb triggered Glocks.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:28 PM   #16
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Index Index Index Index and Index! Keep your fucking bugger hook away from the bang switch until you want a BANG!
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:21 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
Anyone know what happens to a LEO if they have a ND?
@093LZ ?
Just two AD. No big deal.

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Old 02-09-2016, 06:41 PM   #18
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Good lord!
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Old 02-09-2016, 07:23 PM   #19
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Old 02-09-2016, 10:23 PM   #20
 
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Was it a repost? surprised there arent more comments.

http://www.startribune.com/eden-prai...ion/366644371

http://www.startribune.com/documents...ing/367030571
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:39 AM   #21
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jesus fucking christ keep your goddamn finger out of the trigger guard jackass. The dept will probably cut that dude a check esp with the video out there.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:22 AM   #22
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The most hypocritical thing about the ND is that professionals say it should never happen, but as soon as it happens to a professional all the other assholes jump on him for being irresponsible. It shouldn't happen, sure, I get that, but it does happen to the best trained people too.
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Old 02-11-2016, 10:17 AM   #23
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"Lots of folks out there saying that if you spend enough time around weapons, AD/ND's will occur and that its only a matter of time.

I've often wondered if that's really the case or not... but somehow, I get peace of mind seeing that it can even happen to the professionals out there *and* that even when it does, proper training and safety guidelines prevented injury in this particular case."

THIS. 100%.
The saying is,
"There are two types of shooters, ones that have ND'd and ones that will." or....
"There are two types of shooters, ones that have ND'd and ones that are lying" lol

No one is perfect, and if you're around shooting enough it will happen. The sooner everyone acknowledges that fact as a shooter, the safer they can be. The importance of the 4 rules really shows here and have much more weight to them when you know an ND can happen.
Equate it to being in Rowanda and rawdogging some whore vs rawdogging some whore here.
Youre going to be rawdogging it (shooting) and you know there is a chance of getting HIV (Nd'ing)
Understanding that it is WAY more likely to happen in Rowanda would make you MUCH more cautious about it and safe....

I was Infantry in the Marines and have fired countless rounds, countless hours of experience and range time. I've had an ND and seen it from tons of experienced shooters.
SEALs, Contractors, Instructors.

Like said above, this is why the 4 (5) rules exist.
-Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
-Never point your weapon at anything you dont intent to shoot
-Keep your weapon on safe until you intent to fire
-Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Of course everyone wants to crucify a professional or anyone when it happens and act like it hasnt/cant happen to them, its easy to do and give them internet cool points LOL
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Old 02-11-2016, 10:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willizm View Post
The most hypocritical thing about the ND is that professionals say it should never happen, but as soon as it happens to a professional all the other assholes jump on him for being irresponsible. It shouldn't happen, sure, I get that, but it does happen to the best trained people too.
I agree, I think that at a level it's the "don't take it in a cavalier manner" philosophy going too far. It's stupid to have an attitude that you're going to ND one day, it's arrogant for giving someone shit about it. That is quite frankly a glass house I wouldn't want to cast stones in as we're all human.

While I'm admittedly not perfect about firearms safety, that certainly doesn't mean I don't try to be.
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Old 02-11-2016, 10:39 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
"Lots of folks out there saying that if you spend enough time around weapons, AD/ND's will occur and that its only a matter of time.

I've often wondered if that's really the case or not... but somehow, I get peace of mind seeing that it can even happen to the professionals out there *and* that even when it does, proper training and safety guidelines prevented injury in this particular case."

THIS. 100%.
The saying is,
"There are two types of shooters, ones that have ND'd and ones that will." or....
"There are two types of shooters, ones that have ND'd and ones that are lying" lol
No one is perfect, and if you're around shooting enough it will happen. The sooner everyone acknowledges that fact as a shooter, the safer they can be. The importance of the 4 rules really shows here.

I was Infantry in the Marines and have fired countless rounds, countless hours of experience and range time. I've had an ND and seen it from tons of experienced shooters.
SEALs, Contractors, Instructors.

Like said above, this is why the 4 (5) rules exist.
-Treat every weapon as if it were loaded
-Never point your weapon at anything you dont intent to shoot
-Keep your weapon on safe until you intent to fire
-Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Of course everyone wants to crucify a professional or anyone when it happens and act like it hasnt/cant happen to them, its easy to do and give them internet cool points LOL
Thanks for the honest post. I appreciate hearing from someone else who also has a ton of shooting experience and has also seen it happen.
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