Forum Register Members Casino Live Posting Feed Garage Arcade iTrader Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   The Chicago Garage > The Garage > TCG Technical > GM Tech & Discussion

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-10-2009, 09:32 PM   #51
I haz dat teddy bear smile.
 
10sec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,936
Casino cash: $76890925
5.82 per day
Mentioned: 177 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Default

I'm right there with you, a tuner should be the first mod. They'd rather pay someone to guess their tune and send them a pcm or pay them to tune the car so 1-2 months later can change something as simple as the intake and completely throw everything off just to take it back to the same person and pay them to do it again. I just don't get it... I only charge $30 to re-tune a car for changes made by the owner That's after the initial credit and $50 tune fee's of course.
__________________
2005 S2000
10sec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2009, 09:35 PM   #52
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,367
Casino cash: $168517200
15.92 per day
Mentioned: 2077 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Default

Hell, you can take a bone stock car - do VE & timing on it and get noticeable power gains! Let alone the more obvious gains when you're tuning an auto. Why wouldn't you do that?!??!?
__________________
2019 RAM 1500 Limited 4x4 CCLB
2008 BMW 535i - MHD tuned
2004 BMW 330xi - kids cruiser
2004 VW New Beetle 2.0
2018 KTM 500 EXC-F
2018 Skidoo Renegade Backcountry X 850
2015 Polaris Indy SP 800
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2009, 11:21 PM   #53
I haz dat teddy bear smile.
 
10sec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,936
Casino cash: $76890925
5.82 per day
Mentioned: 177 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
Hell, you can take a bone stock car - do VE & timing on it and get noticeable power gains! Let alone the more obvious gains when you're tuning an auto. Why wouldn't you do that?!??!?
Because (for example) on gtp's the vendors say a certain setup will get 20-40hp and these kids eat it up like chocolate to soon find out with only half the mods and a tune it would have gone just as fast. I'll admit I was one of those newbs, but have learned the ways and I am attempting to pass it on to others. They just don't listen cause when it comes down to it, they're just too lazy to learn. I learned while running 100-125 shot through my car if i was going to screw up i would have already.
10sec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 12:08 AM   #54
Lt. Ron "Slider" Kerner
 
Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 25,790
Casino cash: $33465825
6.52 per day
Mentioned: 500 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

You really think that smoothing out that graph is going to net you A LOT of power? I doubt it. Have you ever dynoed before and after you tuned the car yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
Eh, unless you're a tuner yourself its just not going to make much sense without spending 1/2 the evening sitting here trying to explain to you.

Maybe pictures can tell the story...

Here's a "dyno tuned" VE table (the table that determines your AFR) from a car with a very similar cam to my own:


Here's my own personal VE table:


All those sharp and sudden dips in that dyno VE are going to make for a car leaving TONS of power on the table. Why is that bad? Because maybe they took two passes at the table, only got maybe 10 cell hits, and obviously didn't smooth @ all. I spent 100mi and 8 passes with 50 cell hits to do my table and I still don't consider it finished.

HTH
__________________
Current Car
2012 R8 V10
2015 M3
Former Cars
2001 Camaro SS
2007 Audi S4
2008 M3 Blown
2016 WRX
Turk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 09:01 AM   #55
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,367
Casino cash: $168517200
15.92 per day
Mentioned: 2077 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Default

You have no idea how hard I had to resist getting out of bed to reply last night (I get forum notifications on my phone :nerd: )

Anyways, yea. I guess you're right. If you care not for driveability, mileage, or your AFR jumping all over the place as you run through the gears... then I guess that tune is just right for you!

As for "A LOT of power" - I don't know what your mods are on either of your cars, but have you ever paid for a mod that was supposed to add 10-15WHP? I know I have. Every little bit counts! If I can get another 2-3WHP out for a few mods because I can tune to take even the smallest extra advantage - I WILL!
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 09:13 AM   #56
I Haz Old Teknologee
 
greasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pantie Drawer
Posts: 27,848
Casino cash: $111000
6.68 per day
Mentioned: 829 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Default

Hillbilly I remember I used to edge out your car when you had the bolt ons and no tune. My car was a 14.0 car at the time. Then you tuned the damn thing and you would walk all over me. I could not believe how much the car woke up!! You went from that to a 12 second car!

Not everybody is mechanically inclined or understands how to tune cars. But if you do the proper research you can do most, if not all things yourself. I feel much more comfortable doing my own work on my car then letting others touch it.
__________________
"May your George Bush drink the blood of every single man, woman, and child of Iraq" - Borat


greasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 09:15 AM   #57
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,367
Casino cash: $168517200
15.92 per day
Mentioned: 2077 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greasy View Post
Hillbilly I remember I used to edge out your car when you had the bolt ons and no tune. My car was a 14.0 car at the time.
I must have been stuck in reverse that day or something.

You're totally right though, being able to do it yourself makes all the difference in the world.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 10:02 AM   #58
I Haz Old Teknologee
 
greasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pantie Drawer
Posts: 27,848
Casino cash: $111000
6.68 per day
Mentioned: 829 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
I must have been stuck in reverse that day or something.

You're totally right though, being able to do it yourself makes all the difference in the world.
The mind tends to forget tragic events such as these.........
greasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 11:44 AM   #59
 
shockerracing.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dundee, IL
Posts: 2,560
Casino cash: $12882600
0.56 per day
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

I agree that if you can it is much better to do things yourself, but I know nothing about tuning a car and would not trust myself to mess with it. All I know is that I have found a tuner that I trust and that I know he spends a lot of time tuning my car and uses a dyno. All of the vehicles he has tuned have been uniquely tuned and have run amazing.
__________________
TCG Tour 2017

shockerracing.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2009, 01:52 PM   #60
 
Grahamahama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 257
Casino cash: $7506789
0.07 per day
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

^^^ +1 and he is always willing to talk you through anything.
__________________
Grahamahamahamahamahama....

Current Vehicles:
2008 E63 AMG with RennTech Intake, Throttle Body, Midpipe & Tune.


Past Vehicles:
2014 Evo MR, 2012 GTI, 2003 Chevy 2500HD, 2003 C5 Z06 , 2004 STI, 1998 Volvo C70
Grahamahama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:00 AM   #61
Lt. Ron "Slider" Kerner
 
Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 25,790
Casino cash: $33465825
6.52 per day
Mentioned: 500 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
You have no idea how hard I had to resist getting out of bed to reply last night (I get forum notifications on my phone :nerd: )

Anyways, yea. I guess you're right. If you care not for driveability, mileage, or your AFR jumping all over the place as you run through the gears... then I guess that tune is just right for you!

As for "A LOT of power" - I don't know what your mods are on either of your cars, but have you ever paid for a mod that was supposed to add 10-15WHP? I know I have. Every little bit counts! If I can get another 2-3WHP out for a few mods because I can tune to take even the smallest extra advantage - I WILL!
My whole point is, you don't even know if you are getting that extra 2-3 whp cause you won't dyno it! If you can show me a before and after dyno of your stock tune, vs your personal street tune, then you got me.
Turk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:02 AM   #62
loves cigs
 
asainchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 992
Casino cash: $55803000
0.28 per day
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to asainchris
Default

Mods for this year, TAX RETURN! Will update as soon as it is spent.
__________________
1989 Civic EF9 4 door. SLAMED!
1990 beater cliTaurus robocop edtion- sold.
2005 M6 MBM GTO. 440whp- SOLD.
2004 Sentra SE-R Spec V. full suspension autox- sold.
1986 Toyota Corrola SR-5. never finished- sold.
1996 Buick Rivera superchaged. just a pulley- sold.
1998 200sx SE-R. full bolt on- sold.
asainchris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:11 AM   #63
I haz dat teddy bear smile.
 
10sec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,936
Casino cash: $76890925
5.82 per day
Mentioned: 177 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turk View Post
My whole point is, you don't even know if you are getting that extra 2-3 whp cause you won't dyno it! If you can show me a before and after dyno of your stock tune, vs your personal street tune, then you got me.
What does tuning involve and you'll answer your own response by yourself...

fuel, spark, boost (application specific), and trans, fans, ect. If you maximise each of those to their full extent what is the dyno going to tell you? That you made more hp right? Then what can you possibly do? Street tuning is the most accurate tuning, not the safest by any means, but "correct". I know i could make x amount of hp on the dyno and there's no way i would drive it off the dyno making the same amount of power and expect it to be reliable. The dyno just can't simulate a real life load on the car.
10sec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:26 AM   #64
Lt. Ron "Slider" Kerner
 
Turk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 25,790
Casino cash: $33465825
6.52 per day
Mentioned: 500 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10secsomeday View Post
What does tuning involve and you'll answer your own response by yourself...

fuel, spark, boost (application specific), and trans, fans, ect. If you maximise each of those to their full extent what is the dyno going to tell you? That you made more hp right? Then what can you possibly do? Street tuning is the most accurate tuning, not the safest by any means, but "correct". I know i could make x amount of hp on the dyno and there's no way i would drive it off the dyno making the same amount of power and expect it to be reliable. The dyno just can't simulate a real life load on the car.
Not true. There are load bearing(sp?) dynos... They may not simulate the real world exactly, but your butt dyno isn't going to simulate exact gains either.
Turk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:47 AM   #65
Banned
 
CamaroSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 19,893
Casino cash: $4602103
4.74 per day
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

im gonna do a lid and a cat back this year
CamaroSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:50 AM   #66
WOW.
 
IDAFC21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Avondale, AZ
Posts: 37,548
Casino cash: $94975529
8.94 per day
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to IDAFC21
Default

on that heap? why bother.
__________________
2014 ///M235i_____________________________________________ _____2004 Monaro
IDAFC21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 02:45 AM   #67
Banned
 
CamaroSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 19,893
Casino cash: $4602103
4.74 per day
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

ok just a lid
CamaroSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 08:43 AM   #68
I haz dat teddy bear smile.
 
10sec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,936
Casino cash: $76890925
5.82 per day
Mentioned: 177 Post(s)
Tagged: 8 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turk View Post
Not true. There are load bearing(sp?) dynos... They may not simulate the real world exactly, but your butt dyno isn't going to simulate exact gains either.
Ok, i still don't think you're understand what i'm saying. I'll use my gtp as an example....

I tune it for 11.8:1 AFR, 21* of timing, and the smallest pulley that will allow with 0-1* of kr (which is perfectly ideal 0 being the best of course) that's pretty much everything maxed out on 93 octane. Any leaner and I'll get 3-6* of kr and any more timing I risk popping a head gasket. Putting my car on a dyno is a waste of time and money since there's nothing further i can add to make more hp. My seat of the pants isn't telling me shit, my scan is. If my scan says I'm at the ragged edge of hitting kr then that's where i stop.

Dyno tuning is way safer IMO, but i'm cheap. The only reason i would put my car on a dyno is to see how much power i'm making and thats about it.

I have a friend with a tbss that's putting more spray and headers on it. (that's my on topic contribution)
10sec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 09:19 AM   #69
 
Grahamahama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Joliet, IL
Posts: 257
Casino cash: $7506789
0.07 per day
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

So once i get my back pay for my raise i will be putting headers on my car.
Grahamahama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 09:54 AM   #70
 
transmaxed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Palatine
Posts: 1,067
Casino cash: $6094400
0.28 per day
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

This year I will be adding a pro 5.0 shifter to my car, and the new tick master cylinder.
Also hopefully a 3.5" e-cutout.

Also have 315/35/17 nitto DR's that will be mounted on my 17x11 ttII's.... daily driven still looking for the front rims tho.

If I somehow save any money after this I also want to do full suspension mods next, even tho I should start saving for a clutch, as that probably will start going after this year.
__________________
transmaxed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 10:02 AM   #71
 
PANDA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: FRG
Posts: 33,800
Casino cash: $56493500
8.05 per day
Mentioned: 1112 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmaxed View Post
This year I will be adding a pro 5.0 shifter to my car, and the new tick master cylinder.
Also hopefully a 3.5" e-cutout.

Also have 315/35/17 nitto DR's that will be mounted on my 17x11 ttII's.... daily driven still looking for the front rims tho.

If I somehow save any money after this I also want to do full suspension mods next, even tho I should start saving for a clutch, as that probably will start going after this year.
How bout a rear end
__________________
PANDA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 10:26 AM   #72
 
XxApollynxX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montgomery
Posts: 1,901
Casino cash: $6313329
0.50 per day
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to XxApollynxX Send a message via Yahoo to XxApollynxX
Default

Why 3.5" cut-out do you have a Mufflex exhaust? Other wise you need 3".
__________________
FOR SALE:
1969 Chevrolet Chevelle
----------------------------
2015 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
2000 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
XxApollynxX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 10:39 AM   #73
 
transmaxed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Palatine
Posts: 1,067
Casino cash: $6094400
0.28 per day
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PANDA View Post
How bout a rear end
its not like im running slicks...


Quote:
Originally Posted by XxApollynxX View Post
Why 3.5" cut-out do you have a Mufflex exhaust? Other wise you need 3".
My y-pipe merges to 3.5" cause im using a flowmaster merge. It is then later reduced to 3". I am going to toss in a 3.5" cutout before the reducer.
transmaxed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 10:47 AM   #74
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,367
Casino cash: $168517200
15.92 per day
Mentioned: 2077 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmaxed View Post
its not like im running slicks...
Perhaps not, but it IS like you're running a 10 bolt. HAHA
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 10:48 AM   #75
 
transmaxed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Palatine
Posts: 1,067
Casino cash: $6094400
0.28 per day
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
Perhaps not, but it IS like you're running a 10 bolt. HAHA
If the rear end blows, and i cant afford a new one, I do have a spare car to use. So im not totally fucked.
transmaxed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
no new posts