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Old 04-24-2007, 06:15 PM   #1
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Default RWTD and HP by Hermann Dyno Graphs

I thought you guys might be interested in seeing the final dyno graphs on my car from RWTD and Hermann's tunes. RWTD was this past weekend [Blue]. Hermann was last year [Red].
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:22 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyn high again
I thought you guys might be interested in seeing the final dyno graphs on my car from RWTD and Hermann's tunes. RWTD was this past weekend [Blue]. Hermann was last year [Red]. Guess which tune I like better...


13:1? Wow!!!!!
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyn high again
I thought you guys might be interested in seeing the final dyno graphs on my car from RWTD and Hermann's tunes. RWTD was this past weekend [Blue]. Hermann was last year [Red]. Guess which tune I like better...
Nice....very nice...Looks like that other tune was abit lean....Did you ever have plug issues?
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:08 PM   #4
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Jesus Hermann should have never let your car go out with an A/F like that!!! It looks as if James tuned it a little richer (where it should be) and added some spark to keep the power up. Good numbers.


On the tune last year were you running out of pump or injector or something? I cannot see Hermann letting a car go without getting the A/F one hell of allot better than that. I am betting that you had a fuel delivery issue that Hermann could not tune around so he kept timing bumped down to keep things together which killed power of course.
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:30 PM   #5
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I did e-mail Hermann after I was on the dyno and he richened up my tune by a point. That made it 12-1 rather than 13 but I don't have a graph that shows that. Actually the tunes are somewhat similar [except for the A/F] but I like the extra hp and tq across the graph that I got with the RWTD tune.

I had the same set up last year that I do now. 2400 MAF, Boost A Pump and 60 lb. injectors.
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Old 04-24-2007, 10:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyn high again
I did e-mail Hermann after I was on the dyno and he richened up my tune by a point. That made it 12-1 rather than 13 but I don't have a graph that shows that. Actually the tunes are somewhat similar [except for the A/F] but I like the extra hp and tq across the graph that I got with the RWTD tune.

I had the same set up last year that I do now. 2400 MAF, Boost A Pump and 60 lb. injectors.



Oh, did he send you a canned tune via email? If so then that will play a big difference of course.
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Old 04-24-2007, 10:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket5979
Oh, did he send you a canned tune via email? If so then that will play a big difference of course.
Yep. Richened the tune 1 point across the graph after I told him about the A/F.

Edit-Tuned in person when Hermann was here last year. Richened via e-mail.
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:51 AM   #8
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The A/F graph is not exactly accurate since they were measured using 2 different methods. The Hermann tune was measured using a tail pipe sniffer, which we have found, reads 1/2 point lean and RWTD used a bung, which is dead on.
So, the 13 you are seeing is actually 12.5 and that was later corrected with an updated e-mail tune.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:32 AM   #9
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Hermann used his o2 sensor in a bung when he was here last year... So the HBH tune is question was done using a tailpipe sniffer? hummm
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:40 AM   #10
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I am very happy with my Hermann tune.

It's wouldn't be fair to bash him, and I don't see anyone doing it, because you are not comparing apples-to-apples by using different sniffers, etc... and other factors that come in to play. He knows what he's doing and uses top of the line equipment which tailpipe sniffers should even be compared to. They are both respectable tuners that I would let EITHER one tune my car. I don't think I would let someone tune my car using a tailpipe sniffer. You are taking a big chance. I seen how shops throw them around and who knows how often they change them.
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Old 04-25-2007, 12:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffsLightning
Hermann used his o2 sensor in a bung when he was here last year... So the HBH tune is question was done using a tailpipe sniffer? hummm
The tune was done while Hermann was out here last year using a bung.

I don't recall if Mike's dyno used a sniffer or the bung for the red Hermann graph. Dan thinks sniffer so I'd agree with that.

Guys, I'm not trying to start a war between tuners. I thought it was interesting looking at the superimposed graphs and thought you guys also might like to see them. That's the only reason I posted them.

Apart from the A/F, the two graphs are pretty similar although RWTD coaxed some more ponies from the motor. I still have no idea why the Hermann A/F was initially mid 12s. From looking at my plugs yesterday, Hermann's tune after he richened it was rich enough to put some carbon on the plugs.
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:37 AM   #12
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When Hermann did the tuning, he used a very expensive (~$10k), lab-grade a/f meter tied into the exhaust thru a bung. Implication that he let a car go away with a jacked-up a/f is unreasonable when the "confirming" a/f meter was an inferior tail pipe sniffer. I understand that you are happy about making more power, but the (unintentional) implication is not fair.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:28 AM   #13
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The tail pipe sniffer Mike uses is not inferior. There is and always has been a consistent .5 difference in the readings. This has been demonstated on numerous occasions. The tailpipe reads .5 leaner than the bung. Once this is factored in, the graph is a different animal.
The comparison should never have been made though, because they were not identical configurations.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:50 AM   #14
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Don't read too much into this thread. It's only two dyno graphs. One from Hermann's final tune [before I asked him to richen it] and the final one from my recent RWTD tune. It's interesting to compare the two graphs but in no way a competition between the companies. Same dyno but different variables due to weather, methods of tuning, etc.
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Old 04-26-2007, 10:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosconiac
When Hermann did the tuning, he used a very expensive (~$10k), lab-grade a/f meter tied into the exhaust thru a bung. Implication that he let a car go away with a jacked-up a/f is unreasonable when the "confirming" a/f meter was an inferior tail pipe sniffer. I understand that you are happy about making more power, but the (unintentional) implication is not fair.
Other guys who Hermann tuned also dynoed at the same time. Their A/F was a point lower than mine on Mike's dyno. If it was the dyno, all the readings would have been high. I have no idea why my A/F was high but Hermann immediately sent me a revised tune to correct it when I asked him to.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:31 AM   #16
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I have been waiting for a mailorder tune from RWTD for 2.5 weeks. Each time I call to get an update they act like they haven't looked at my info yet.

Hope I get the tune Today or Tomorrow. Going to the Dyno on Sat and really want to see what my A/F is with the new tune.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebelleader
I have been waiting for a mailorder tune from RWTD for 2.5 weeks. Each time I call to get an update they act like they haven't looked at my info yet.

Hope I get the tune Today or Tomorrow. Going to the Dyno on Sat and really want to see what my A/F is with the new tune.



Good luck with that! I could tell you some horror stories about RWTD but I will refrain from doing so in here. Lets just say that RWTD was the reason why I became a Pro Racer over a year ago. And dealing with other dealers PRP support is why I am a SCT Dealer/Tuner now so it is all good. Hopefully give something back to the racing community. Customer support is a huge thing in this business and some people just don't get it.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:24 PM   #18
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A corollary to being a nationally known tuner is being very busy. James and Ed took the time to explain to me what they were doing with my car which takes more time than rushing through the tunes. Multiply that by X number of cars tuned. There are only so many hours in a day. I'd suggest posting on the RWTD site or talking to either Ed or James via phone or e-mail.

If you don't want to wait, Speed Inc, Sutton Ford and Bob Kurgan are all vendors on this site and local.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyn high again
A corollary to being a nationally known tuner is being very busy. James and Ed took the time to explain to me what they were doing with my car which takes more time than rushing through the tunes. Multiply that by X number of cars tuned. There are only so many hours in a day. I'd suggest posting on the RWTD site or talking to either Ed or James via phone or e-mail.

If you don't want to wait, Speed Inc, Sutton Ford and Bob Kurgan are all vendors on this site and local.
I have called them 3 times. Each time I was assured I would have the tune in a few days. I sent an eMail earlier this week that was never replied to. I have asked questions on their forum that have gone unanswered. I understand being a Nationally Known tuner, but how hard is it to post in my thread that they are working on my tune and will get back to me in a timely manner?

Right now their customer service is a 'C'

I hope I can give their Mail Order Tune an 'A'
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Old 04-26-2007, 04:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyn high again
I thought you guys might be interested in seeing the final dyno graphs on my car from RWTD and Hermann's tunes. RWTD was this past weekend [Blue]. Hermann was last year [Red].
Congrats on the difference, now get it down the track big boy. I wanted to try and wait around for a tune but never got the chance and from what I've read I don't think I would have gotten in anyway.
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:09 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Since 1964
Congrats on the difference, now get it down the track big boy. I wanted to try and wait around for a tune but never got the chance and from what I've read I don't think I would have gotten in anyway.
we have really similar hp and tq so I need to get the rear end issues worked out and then try to match your 1/4 mile times. Nice driving.
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyn high again
Don't read too much into this thread. It's only two dyno graphs. One from Hermann's final tune [before I asked him to richen it] and the final one from my recent RWTD tune. It's interesting to compare the two graphs but in no way a competition between the companies. Same dyno but different variables due to weather, methods of tuning, etc.
The #s were corrected, so weather is not an issue.
The WOT #s seem close to me. Your drivability should be a major concern and the comparisons should be there, not on the dyno graphs. Im interested to see if you pop a FRPS with RWTDs tune.
Get those 4.10s out of there.........
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyn high again
we have really similar hp and tq so I need to get the rear end issues worked out and then try to match your 1/4 mile times. Nice driving.
PSSST....It's all about the tires. 2800-6000 RPM's it all depends on the track that day, but the MT Bias Ply ET Streets are the Shit for OUR cars.

I got a nice pair with only like 15 passes on them. You should get some too.
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Old 04-27-2007, 04:37 PM   #24
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I took the car out today for the second time since the tune. Computer is still learning the tune. The car hiccuped first time I let off quickly and then got back on it but ran fine second time I tried the same thing. After having it out for an hour or so, I am thrilled with the way it's running. Idle is a solid line that doesn't waver. Car is SMOOTH. For whatever reason, the power doesn't hit as abruptly as it did before. Part throttle hesitation is gone. The car just moves out when I get on it. My ticking is gone [thanks John!] and the engine sings. Blower whine is wonderful. I'm in love with my car... again.
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Old 04-29-2007, 06:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dun4791
The #s were corrected, so weather is not an issue.
The WOT #s seem close to me. Your drivability should be a major concern and the comparisons should be there, not on the dyno graphs. Im interested to see if you pop a FRPS with RWTDs tune.
Get those 4.10s out of there.........
Why do you say to get those 4:10's out of there?
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