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Where's the bottleneck? PB in 1/8, falls over in 1/4. Please help, I'm the 12.0 king!

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JA$ON

JA$ON

ching chong potato
Sep 7, 2004
17,332
2
  • #1
    Quick backround, went to the track yesterday, waited for the rain to stop and finally got 4 runs in, temp was around 80 and it was humid. The DA was 2100, and we had about a 15 MPH headwind

    First time out on my Bogarts, 16" ET Streets and the DFX. All runs except 1 were 12.0x's, I dont get it. The DFX was hittin hard, 60's were 1.67-1.75, and I ran some of my best 1/8 mile ET's and traps, 1/8 mile #'s were in the low 7.7's with traps at 94.xx MPH, that is a big 1/8 MPH for my car as my car has always trapped low. The car would just not pick up more than 20 MPH on the back end, I was trapping 114 MPH consistently, so another handful of 12.0's @ 114. I dont know whats up. If I picked up the normal 24-27 MPH from 1/8 to 1/4, I'd be well into the 11's

    The tune is there, tuned by Hermann for 23* timing and I ran 1/4 tank of 93 and 2 gallon splash of unleaded 104, I have a tire and a clutch to hold it, and my 1/8 mile numbers should equate to an 11, but the car was still just falling over in 3rd and 4th. I was shifting it high ~6300ish and thats how I brought my 1/8 numbers up but maybe I need to shift 3-4 a little earlier, I have heard that this might help.

    The only factors left are belt slip (74" Gatorback), plugs, and heat I guess, all 4 runs were done in about a 2 hour period so I'm sure the car was not cooled down all the way. The clutch was definitely not slipping. Maybe time for a H/E , and I already ordered the newer BF upper idler bracket and I'm going to try a Gates belt. Who has any other ideas?? I am speed shifting, not powershifting. I have a buddy with very similar mods and he got an 11 on the same day. How much ET is out there with powershifting?? Thanks for any ideas, cuz I am stumped!! Every mod is in sig, is something not jiving with my combo?? Could my MAF be pegged, could I be out of pumps? I wasnt out of either of these when I pullied in January, but have added a few mods, X pipe, Accufab TB, 10" powerstack on my FIPK heat shield, could those have pegged me? Thanks

    Jason
    Click to read more...
     
    Oncebitten03

    Oncebitten03

    TCG Elite Member
    Feb 13, 2005
    1,947
    0
  • #3
    belt slip is possible but unlikely and i doubt your maf is being pegged yet. ditch that gatorback first off and go from there, get a gates.

    what are you iat temps? any way of datalogging? an aftermarket h/e will always help.

    pick up the AFCO for sale in the FS section, it's a nice unit.
     
    JA$ON

    JA$ON

    ching chong potato
    Sep 7, 2004
    17,332
    2
  • #8
    I'll find out a few things today. I'm going to try to get to Speed Inc for a few dyno pulls with Wideband so we'll see how that goes. I picked up some belt dressing, gonna give that a shot to check for belt slip. Carl has offered to help with some datalogging sometime....nobody thinks that adding a 10" powerstack, x-pipe, and Accufab could have pegged my MAF or my pumps??? I have added these mods along with a new DFX, and Bogarts (slicks and skinnies), and have not run any faster than I did at MSC 3.0 in May where I ran a 12.0 @ 115! but my 1/8 mile stats have gotten slightly better, trapping almost 95 in the 1/8th.

    I have ordered the new billetflow idler bracket and have a new Gates belt, the K080751, to go on when it gets here. Has anyone noticed a difference with the new idler bracket over the old one....I doubt it, but oh well.

    I agree that a H/E is not vital as some of the faster guys around dont have one. I dont know my IAT temps, but most runs were with ice in the PFab before the run, obviously its melted before I run, but the water in there was warm to the touch, not even hot.

    I am running Motorcraft AGSF-22c plugs @ an undetermined gap, I havent even looked at these since the pulley went on in January. Sutton did the work and put in the plugs , but they are probably do for a change, time for some TR-6's

    In all honesty, the car pulls real hard in 1st and 2nd, 3rd is OK (probably need to shift to 4th sooner) and 4th feels slow. Can a plug problem or belt slip not arise until 3rd or 4th gear when the car is under the highest load?? My 1/8 mile numbers, especially the 94.xx MPH is good for an 11 :mad:

    Thanks for any thoughts guys, and Carl let me know a good time for you so we can do some datalogging

    Jason
     
    Wiked03

    Wiked03

    CSVT OG
    Mar 1, 2004
    29,341
    10
    Louisville, KY
  • #9
    firstsvt said:
    I'll find out a few things today. I'm going to try to get to Speed Inc for a few dyno pulls with Wideband so we'll see how that goes. I picked up some belt dressing, gonna give that a shot to check for belt slip. Carl has offered to help with some datalogging sometime....nobody thinks that adding a 10" powerstack, x-pipe, and Accufab could have pegged my MAF or my pumps??? I have added these mods along with a new DFX, and Bogarts (slicks and skinnies), and have not run any faster than I did at MSC 3.0 in May where I ran a 12.0 @ 115! but my 1/8 mile stats have gotten slightly better, trapping almost 95 in the 1/8th.

    I have ordered the new billetflow idler bracket and have a new Gates belt, the K080751, to go on when it gets here. Has anyone noticed a difference with the new idler bracket over the old one....I doubt it, but oh well.

    I agree that a H/E is not vital as some of the faster guys around dont have one. I dont know my IAT temps, but most runs were with ice in the PFab before the run, obviously its melted before I run, but the water in there was warm to the touch, not even hot.

    I am running Motorcraft AGSF-22c plugs @ an undetermined gap, I havent even looked at these since the pulley went on in January. Sutton did the work and put in the plugs , but they are probably do for a change, time for some TR-6's

    In all honesty, the car pulls real hard in 1st and 2nd, 3rd is OK (probably need to shift to 4th sooner) and 4th feels slow. Can a plug problem or belt slip not arise until 3rd or 4th gear when the car is under the highest load?? My 1/8 mile numbers, especially the 94.xx MPH is good for an 11 :mad:

    Thanks for any thoughts guys, and Carl let me know a good time for you so we can do some datalogging

    Jason
    Click to expand...

    I do think you MAY be close to maxed on your pumps AND your MAF, hence why I think we should datalog. Also, you need get some TR6s in there. The stock plugs may be holding you back a little as well.
     
    JA$ON

    JA$ON

    ching chong potato
    Sep 7, 2004
    17,332
    2
  • #10
    Wiked03 said:
    I do think you MAY be close to maxed on your pumps AND your MAF, hence why I think we should datalog. Also, you need get some TR6s in there. The stock plugs may be holding you back a little as well.
    Click to expand...

    Stupid question alert!!! :-o What do I need to get the plugs out, I know I need somesort of extension, just a long 3/8 extension, and a plug socket. One of the heads only has 4 threads right? Which one? Do I just tighten them down until they are snug? I want to at least pull a few out and see what they look like. Thanks
     
    V

    venmousracer

    Guest
  • #11
    Can be a couple of things, I had somthing simular happen to me, I was on my way to my best pass ever,

    1.60 60 foot time
    7.19 1/8th mile @ 99.95mph
    1/4 mile time was 11.44@114mph

    car would run all day 11.40-45 @122-123mph

    but on my best run I had major spark blowout due to the wrong plugs and a slipping belt.. Check those out..Eddie
     
    Wiked03

    Wiked03

    CSVT OG
    Mar 1, 2004
    29,341
    10
    Louisville, KY
  • #12
    firstsvt said:
    Stupid question alert!!! :-o What do I need to get the plugs out, I know I need somesort of extension, just a long 3/8 extension, and a plug socket. One of the heads only has 4 threads right? Which one? Do I just tighten them down until they are snug? I want to at least pull a few out and see what they look like. Thanks
    Click to expand...

    You can't even imagine how easy they are to change.

    All you need is a ratchet, long extention (or 2 short ones) and a plug socket.

    When putting them back in just use your finger to turn the extension to make sure you don't cross thread em. Then once they are finger tight, snug them up with the ratchet.

    A lot of people use anti seize, but I don't cause I change plugs so frequently (they are cheap.)
     
    JA$ON

    JA$ON

    ching chong potato
    Sep 7, 2004
    17,332
    2
  • #13
    UPDATE: Pulled the plugs, found some interesting things....

    Well, I pulled the plugs and found that my Motorcraft AGSF-22c plugs were in good shape (nice tan porcelain, deep redish color with some black speckles around the top), but were gapped at .028 Isnt that gap a little on the small side??

    So I installed a set of NGK TR-6's and gapped them at .035. Car fired right up, idled better, and that part throttle stutter I had between 2000 - 2500 RPM is now gone. Did some pulls and took it all the way up to 6500 or so, and it spun cleanly, didnt break up or misfire so no sign of blowout. I couldnt tell if I gained any power but it pulled hard upstairs, revved smoother and seemed to run better.

    I had to be leaving some power on the table gapped at .028 right, can too small of a gap blowout the spark, or will it just not get as full of a burn and be down on power???

    Time to tackle the other possible problems and find out where my good 1/4 mi ET and 5 MPH went :biggthump What should I check out now? I have the new BF upper idler bracket coming along with a new Gates belt....bye bye belt slip hopefully
     
    B

    Boost12

    Guest
  • #18
    what is a sure sign of belt slip because I may have some slip issues but im not really sure because it may be all in my head. When I punch it going 40mph the tires break loose and spin bad so its hard to tell if my belt is slipping. I have a billetflow 276 upper along with there Tensinor and lower pullys with a gates belt. and after I beat on it I check the Radiator hose and there nothing really on it so im not sure if the belt is slipping.... :confused:
     
    B

    Boost12

    Guest
  • #22
    Flatliner said:
    I highly doubt it too... watch your boost see if it drops in the higher RPMS or is erratic, but with that set up you shouldn't see any loss. You can tell on a dyno, or if your MPH is off and you have mega dust.
    Click to expand...
    is a little dust normal though..?? Because a few times there was minor dust but it may have just been there fron last time when my belt broke...
     
    JA$ON

    JA$ON

    ching chong potato
    Sep 7, 2004
    17,332
    2
  • #25
    Survey says..................

    Datalogging complete......tune looked really good. A/F was in the high 11's all the way across (Ok for track only tune, splash of 100), max timing I saw was 22* up to redline (wanted to see 23*), no maxed MAF (counts reached 1002 for a brief moment), no maxed pumps (93%), and IAT 2 temps were never over 136*. Hopefully the TR-6's @ .35 helped, car does feel better. We just checked the major stuff

    I did learn that the stock tach sucks and a few times when I thought I was shifting in the low 6000 RPMs, it was more like 6700-6800 a couple of times!! Revving it a bit high I guess, time for a shift lite, hopefully my low 1/4 trap was partially due to me spinning it too high, because of course Hermann's tune looks real good, I just cant drive :loser:

    Jason
     
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