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Thinking about adding a Lower

hj16

Tasty!
Mar 1, 2004
9,788
21
I've always been happy with my big pulley and low boost (2.90), but Ive been advised to up the boost to take advantage of my new combo coming this summer.

Ported Eaton
Ported Plenum
Single Blade TB
Crower Stage 2 Cams
Ported Heads
55lb injectors
Twin Focus Pumps
Vortech Resevior
GordsFord or Xtreme HX
etc...

So Ive been thinking. I dont want to move to a 2.76 because of belt slip. So I thought about a 4lb lower with a RR3.0 upper. So I'd get the boost of a 2.76 without the belt slip issues. Or maybe a 6lb lower with a RR3.2 :dunno:

Any input? I may end up just sticking with the RR 2.90 throwing on some Idlers and have fun running a low boost effecient Eaton. :idea:
 

fearbluer1

My 4cyl just beat your 8!
Mar 2, 2004
273
0
Dan and I have had this discussion many times.

If your going after torque, then I would say go for the lower pulley. You will not gain as much hp. Just a load of tq. But this comes at a cost. Primarily heat.

A quick reason why there is more tq achieved than hp. If you take a car that is running a 2.75 upper only. The car reaches roughly 14lbs of boost and lets just say at 6,500 rpms, the blower is spinning between 13,000 and 14000 rpms. With this combo average #'s are 460hp @ 6200RPM's & 484lbs tq @ 3200 RPM's.

Add a lower pulley and now you are making 460 - 470hp and 525 - 540lbs tq. But why is there more tq achieved than hp??

The reason for more tq is because at 3200 engine rpm's instead of spinning the blower at 6400rpm's you are now spinning it closer to 9,000rpms. Forcing more air at a lower engine RPM.

However, when you get to 6200 engine rpms the blower is now spinning between 18,000 and 20,000 RPM's. The rotors are losing their ability to grab and compress air.

Too much air is slipping past the rotors, kinda like a cavitation effect of a propeller in water. (Too much hp and you just spin the prop because their isn't enough surface area to grab the water. This does two things, one your prop spins and creates an air pocket, and two it super heats the prop.) Hence for a more aggressive pitch or redesigned prop (adding another blade), than can process water more efficiently.

At 14,000 RPM's the blower’s efficiency starts dropping off fast. It is taking more power to turn and producing more heat, eating away at the actual output. So the blower becomes better at producing more tq, but in the process creates a TON more heat. Leading to heat soak faster.

One reason the Kenne bell or screw type compressor is more efficient, is because of the rotor design. It can draw or pull air in without losing much air at the tip of the rotor. This increases volume and reduces heat.

A couple downsides:

1.) You will be heating up your air temp on the intake side, even at idle. You have to remember that when the motor is running, the blower is still trying to compress air. Even though you have a bypass, that doesn't prevent air from being brought through the supercharger and being compressed by the rotors. This is why; at idle, without taking the car for a ride your blower is usually hot. This may lead to problems with consistency at the track, especially on repetitive runs. Longer cool down may be required.

2.) The bearings will have a higher demand on them. Faster RPM's, and more heat will be generated in the bearings.

Well in no way, am I an "expert" but I have been reading and learning allot more about roots, screw, and centrifugal blowers.

Suggested reading: Supercharged! Design, Testing, and Installation of Supercharger systems. Book is written by Corky Bell.

Hank, if you want to talk more about this pm me or call my cell or work #.

I also have some ideas about the porting job's. But I'm still researching those theories. :dunno: :alcoholic
 

hj16

Tasty!
Mar 1, 2004
9,788
21
tim lester said:
Hank with the $$$ your talking about spending I would get the KB and call it a day. I think with the mods your talking about you will still make more power with the KB.

Tim
Tim, a KB was in the plan but was nixed because it seemed to large of a step to take. What is the fun in going from 460 to 720rwhp??? Its my Daily Driver, so i need a car that I dont have to worry about. A 720rwhp Cobra isnt that car. Plus, Id rather let someone else be the guinea pig for the new KB than me. I have the opportunity to get one, but I dont want to be a test bed right now.

I figure Ill keep the Eaton on there until I get a Daily Driver then go balls to the wall.

Hank
 

cobravenom39

GTL>FLA
Mar 1, 2004
5,135
24
2.75 pulley help

Tim and Dan, I'll direct this question towards you, since you guys are running similar setups. With my pulley, I'm having a tough time hitting 14 lbs on my boost gauge. It rarely hits 14 and I'm wondering if my power will eventually lessen because of extra strain on the blower. Will my eaton eventually need to be rebuilt? Need some help, please.
 

hj16

Tasty!
Mar 1, 2004
9,788
21
Tim and Dan, I think you guys are missing the fact that I'll only be picking up 2-3psi with what I said. And that would put me right at or slightly above what a 2.75 produces. Im just trying to avoid belt slip by getting a lower, and incresing the size of my upper.


Andy - You're fine with the 2.76, dont worry about it :biggthump
 

Dana

Bluesmobile
Mar 2, 2004
2,619
0
cobravenom39 said:
Tim and Dan, I'll direct this question towards you, since you guys are running similar setups. With my pulley, I'm having a tough time hitting 14 lbs on my boost gauge. It rarely hits 14 and I'm wondering if my power will eventually lessen because of extra strain on the blower. Will my eaton eventually need to be rebuilt? Need some help, please.

14 pounds is nothing to sneeze at. Especially if it holds almost all the way to redline. That is a 75 % increase in output from the base amount.
I don't think it will shorten the blower life significantly, even though it is beyond the recommended limits, but it will certainly have some impact on it. All things wear out, especially American cars, and your blower is no exception.
They haven't been around in this form long enough to make much other than an educated guess on the life expectancy.
Considering the options available today and the near future, a rebuild would probably be a last resort. Replacement would probably be your first choice if the need arose to overhaul the Eaton.
I make these comments because of the very limited amount of time the blower actually spends producing significant boost.

Dan
 

fearbluer1

My 4cyl just beat your 8!
Mar 2, 2004
273
0
What Dan said! :biggthump

Well from past experience, the first thing that usually goes is the bearings. If the bearings let loose, there usually is no chance for rebuilding the unit. You have to remember that those rotors are spinning around 14,000 RPM with very tight tolerances. If those bearings let lose the rotors are going to hit each other and the sides of the case.

I have seen a few go south. It isn't a pretty site. For this reason, its usually standard operating procedure for GM and I'm sure Ford, to replace the unit as a whole.

The biggest concern is hoping nothing actually gets into the motor itself.

If you are going to keep the car, I would move to another aftermarket brand, if your intentions are keeping the performance.

Otherwise keep the stock unit, as long as your happy with stock performance.
 

ILLINI-SVT

Member at Large
Mar 4, 2004
1,993
0
I don't believe I missed this thread before. Don't the Cobra's have the same M112 Eaton that the L's do? If so, I have tons of info for you guys on it. The M112 does NOT drop off significantly at high rpm at all. The L guys did a lot of research into overspinning the Eaton back in 99-00 when the L's first came out - a lot of the same concerns here were believed to limit how fast you could spin the rotors. It's actually very durable up past the 20K rpm range (one guy put 32K miles on his running a 10lb lower with no signs of wear), and the boost drop off isn't as pronounced as you might expect. The problem though, if you're running higher than 6 extra lbs of boost, is cooling the air charge. You need an advanced cooling system once you're making 16 lbs or more.

If it is the M112 and you want some good threads on it, I'll dig them up for you. Just let me know.

Here's a spreadsheet for calculating the M112's rpm given different pulley sizes, and expected boost, and hp calcs. In the last column you can put your own in:

Pulley size Eaton M112 rpm spreadsheet
 

ILLINI-SVT

Member at Large
Mar 4, 2004
1,993
0
Good question. A couple of places sell these 'powercooler' units. I'm not entirely sure how they work (since I have no present plans for one now), but I assume that you run the intercooler coolant through them and they chill it somehow:

Johnny Lightning Performance

You can also buy a larger heat exchanger for the intercooler although I don't think it's as efficient as the powercoolers are. JLP actually sells one for the Cobras too.
 
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