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MOAR BOOST, (Additional noob boost questions, semi-ford specific)

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
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Wheaton, IL
As I often start these threads... "As many of you already know"

98 Ranger, 5.0 swap, OBD2, 5lbs of boost with a roots style supercharger.

After Dyno day I've started doing some additional research on the blower and contacted the vendor finally...

Turns out my blower is a Maggie :wavey:, and there are smaller pulleys available. It uses some form of M90 case, but it is entirely unique, and made by Magnuson for the X-Charger kit. Wish I knew more, but essentially it is not a 'normal' M90.

http://www.pulleyboys.com/store/home.php?cat=16

So now the next step is "What do I need to do to pulley down"

the vendor's HO Kit for their 4.0 SOHC Mustang blowers is 11lbs, and they had told me that they have only seen heat issues on that kit when it is exceptionally warm outside (90+), and the tune they sell with that kit drops power accordingly for it to keep it safe.

With this in mind, Its the SAME blower that I have, and I see no reason not to go ahead and order the 8lb pulley since stock 5.0's are taking WELL more than that, and the explorer bottom end is beefier than the mustang 5.0's anyways.

So my questions:

What else do I need to upgrade to keep this safe?

I already have bigger injectors, and a high volume fuel pump, that should be more than adequate, but from reading, I suspect my next 'limiting' factor is the MAF as it can only 'see' so much CFM, and when its pulling enough air for 8lbs, it will peg the MAF, which is bad news. Suggestions on OEM/Aftermarket replacements? Any need for a larger MAF, or is it primarily the sensor?

And then finally Spark plugs I'd imagine I should run a step or 2 colder...

I started a thread about the plugs previously, and noone really gave me any good resources... I am going to see about calling a vendor directly to get information on this, but figure it couldn't hurt to ask again if anyone had a good resource for this info.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
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Wheaton, IL
As for plugs, you should probably run a colder plug gapped down. I'd also look into intercooling.

NO idea what EXACT plug that would be is my issue :(

And the Mustang 4.0 SOHC Kits they sell, have an option of intercooling, but IIRC its Air to Air. I have bad hood clearance issues already, so a I dunno how I'd do a liquid to air one honestly....

Meth injection.

The guy from Explorer Express sent me a link to a kit he highly recommends.

Does this other kit make more then 230whp? If so DOIT

I hit 235 without peaking, My setup probably has another 10-15hp in it as it sits winding out to 5k RPM. Started experimenting last night already, and it pulls strong all the way to 5500 without a problem. NA it started breaking up above 5300.
 

Sprayin

Public Enemy #1
TCG Premium
Oct 8, 2008
25,114
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Grand Rapids, MI
Stole this from the Corral

5.0
Stock E7 heads:
AUTOLITE
stock--stock 25 (5) [14m, .460 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
1 step colder--24 (4) [14m, .460 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
2 step colder--23 (3) [14m, .460 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
-----AR133 (3) [*recessed tip, racing plug]
-----AR132 (2) [*recessed tip, racing plug]
-----AR131 (1) [*recessed tip, racing plug]

NGK
stock--(UR45) 6945 (Heat Range - 4) [14m, .460 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
1 step colder--(UR55) 2248 (5) [14m, .460 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
2 step colder--(UR6) 7773 (6) [14m, .460 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
-----(R5673-8) 3249 (8) [*recessed tip, racing plug]
-----(R5673-9) 3442 (9) [*recessed tip, racing plug]
-----(R5673-10) 4050 (10) [*recessed tip, racing plug]


GT40 Heads:
AUTOLITE
stock--765 (Heat Range - 5) [14mm, .708 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
1 step colder--764 (4) or 104 (4) [14mm, .708 Reach, 5/8" Hex]**
2 step colder--103 (3) [14mm, .708 Reach, 5/8" Hex]**
-----AR473 (3) [*recessed tip, racing plug]
-----AR472 (2) [*recessed tip, racing plug]

**The difference between the 764 plug and the 104/103 plug is the thread. The 764 plug is a half thread whereas the 104/103 plug is a full thread. The full thread plugs are duplicates of the half thread plugs in every other aspect, they both protrude the same amount into the combustion chamber.

NGK
stock--(TR4) 3754 (Heat Range - 4) [14mm, .708 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
1 step colder--(TR55) 3951 (5) [14mm, .708 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
2 step colder--(TR6) 4177 (6) [14mm, .708 Reach, 5/8" Hex]
-----(B8EFS) 1049 (8) [*recessed tip, racing plug]
-----(B9EFS) 1085 (9) [*recessed tip, racing plug]

That should help as far as plugs go. You said explorer engine, so I figured it was the GT40 but I included the stock E7 heads as well. There was also a list for popular aftermarket aluminum heads as well.
 

Sprayin

Public Enemy #1
TCG Premium
Oct 8, 2008
25,114
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Grand Rapids, MI
What else do I need to upgrade to keep this safe?

I already have bigger injectors, and a high volume fuel pump, that should be more than adequate, but from reading, I suspect my next 'limiting' factor is the MAF as it can only 'see' so much CFM, and when its pulling enough air for 8lbs, it will peg the MAF, which is bad news. Suggestions on OEM/Aftermarket replacements? Any need for a larger MAF, or is it primarily the sensor?

I've seen much more than 8lbs of boost run through a "stock" MAF before. I dont think your limiting factor will be the MAF. What are you using for your MAF now? I see you have 30 lb injectors, did you buy a calibrated MAF sensor along with it? Depending on the size of your TB, you should prob get a C&L or Pro-M 73mm MAF meter calibrated for your 30 lb injectors. Generally when you upgrade your MAF, you are upgrading what you put the sensor into, and they just "trick" the ecu with a flow tube inside the MAF to match it to the injectors. I dont see ANY issues with your fuel system with the setup you are running.


I am interested as to why you chose to use a roots blower vs. a centrifugal style blower (like a vortech). Or why you chose to put a THAT blower on a stock 302, when H/C/I would make similiar power levels without all the extra issues.

Also, be sure to set your Fuel Pressure and Timing accordingly to the boost level you are running. Just a colder spark plug is not enough, you need to pull a few degrees of timing out too.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
I've seen much more than 8lbs of boost run through a "stock" MAF before. I dont think your limiting factor will be the MAF. What are you using for your MAF now? I see you have 30 lb injectors, did you buy a calibrated MAF sensor along with it? Depending on the size of your TB, you should prob get a C&L or Pro-M 73mm MAF meter calibrated for your 30 lb injectors. Generally when you upgrade your MAF, you are upgrading what you put the sensor into, and they just "trick" the ecu with a flow tube inside the MAF to match it to the injectors. I dont see ANY issues with your fuel system with the setup you are running.


I am interested as to why you chose to use a roots blower vs. a centrifugal style blower (like a vortech). Or why you chose to put a THAT blower on a stock 302, when H/C/I would make similiar power levels without all the extra issues.

Also, be sure to set your Fuel Pressure and Timing accordingly to the boost level you are running. Just a colder spark plug is not enough, you need to pull a few degrees of timing out too.

I may have missed it but how is the truck being tuned?

Deltaforce "Sniper"

It gives me a good number of parameters to adjust, and it is how I am running the 30lb injectors with the stock MAF.

It also adjusts timing/fuel depending upon boost (I create a file that states the parameters (8lbs of boost, 30lb injectors, etc, etc) and it builds a base file that has shown to work quite well.

Being an OBD2 ECU, and using coil packs/CPS the ECU inherently adjusted fuel/spark timing on its own to a degree as well as the tune.


The engine is a 98 Explorer motor, so it has a stronger bottom end to my understanding, and I have GT40P Heads.

I didn't go H/C/I because of budget, and the amount of time it would take to install, and a number of other things. (Was moving to a place with no garage, didn't want to tear the motor apart etc)

I went with this setup because it is a kit. Infact it is most likely the last kit that was still brand new for this application. It was sold for maybe 3 years through Explorer Express for 1996-2001 V-8 Ford Explorers. This kit was one of the last 5 sold, and they were sold in 2009. A member of a ranger forum I'm on had this sitting on a shelf still as he ended up going a different route.

Centrifugal kits, and mustang kits in general have accessories that stick out far further (I think as far as 6 inches) which I do not have space for in my motor bay. By going with the roots kit I had a very easy install with no real 'customization' to make it work. I also got a screaming deal on the kit too honestly, he sold it to me for less than half of what the kit sold for new, and it was still new.

Thank you TREMENDOUSLY for that article from Corral, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for!!!

I haven't really had any issues with my kit at all (orange hatch), and am quite happy with it, I just feel the kit is EXTREMELY conservative, and the vendor confirmed it. The issues I've had are related to the OBD2 5.0 ECU and limitations of it, and my tuner. SCT offered no support for my application, so I went with sniper instead.

I think all in all, I really should have no problem slapping on an 8lb pulley and adjusting my tune by the sounds of it so long as I keep an eye on my A:F and my heat, thanks again for the article orangehatch!
 

Sprayin

Public Enemy #1
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Oct 8, 2008
25,114
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Grand Rapids, MI
No problem. The OBD2 on the 302 throws me off a little, as im used to th Ford EEC-IV. Now sure about those. As far as the explorer engines go, they are actually weaker then the Mustang engine. They just have a better heads/intake package. The 87-92 Mustang 302 came factory with forged pistons and those are the strongest ones made. The explorer engines did not. I have the explorer 302 in my Fiero and that's one of the reasons I wont try to boost it.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
No problem. The OBD2 on the 302 throws me off a little, as im used to th Ford EEC-IV. Now sure about those. As far as the explorer engines go, they are actually weaker then the Mustang engine. They just have a better heads/intake package. The 87-92 Mustang 302 came factory with forged pistons and those are the strongest ones made. The explorer engines did not. I have the explorer 302 in my Fiero and that's one of the reasons I wont try to boost it.

I'd heard contrary regarding them, since after 95 they only continued production in trucks, which would typically be 'over built' for strength. No definitive articles on it, but I know the engines are cheap enough to be 'disposable' incase I do break the bottom end. I know of 4 or 5 other ranger guys running north of 10PSI with turbo/centrifugal setups on stock bottom ends without a problem :dunno:.
 

Sprayin

Public Enemy #1
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Oct 8, 2008
25,114
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Grand Rapids, MI
I know guys who put stoc bottom ends into the 9s. So they can handle enough power. Ford changed th pistons in the 302 in 93 from forged pistons to hyper pistons. The rest is literally exactly the same from 93 on. The strongest 302 you can get is from 87-92 and tha is definate. Ill find an article on this when I get home tonight. Your bottom end will handle.more than 10 psi, there is just less room for error.
 

Sprayin

Public Enemy #1
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Oct 8, 2008
25,114
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Grand Rapids, MI
Got this off of www.badassmustangs.com

Its basically a FAQ for those planning to swap an explorer engine into a Fox. Only parts I found here that are relavent:

What are the advantages of using an explorer engine?
Well for starters you can get either variation of the GT40 heads which offer a performance gain, you may find a low mileage motor that wouldn’t give you any problems for a long time, they are cheaper than doing a rebuild on you current engine if an overbore is required.
Some explorer engines come with an engine oil cooler ala special service mustangs so that’s another added bonus, it just plumbs in to you’re lower radiator hose and that’s it!!!!


Please note: These engines came with hyper pistons so please consider this if you’re planning on running boost (supercharger or turbo) or nitrous.

2.-At a minimum you will need a stock mustang 5.0 HO camshaft, the explorer specific cam is no good for performance applications, or even consider any of the popular off the shelf cams TFS or FRPP to name a few, just remember to upgrade your valve springs accordingly if you want to avoid any valve float, there’s a trick flow kit P/N TFS-2500100 that contains springs that will handle a cam up to .542 lift, includes all the appropriate retainers, and valve guide seals and does not need any machine work to install , so for $129 these seems to be the best bang for the buck, you decide..

I'll find something that isnt a post on a forum though.
 

Sprayin

Public Enemy #1
TCG Premium
Oct 8, 2008
25,114
20,155
Grand Rapids, MI
I cant find any REAL tech articles on it, but there are a billion Mustang forums out there that have talked on the issue. The one above being just one of many.

Another one of my questions for you: What are you using for a wiring harness? Are you keeping it OBD2 for sake of emmissions? I think you would have MUCH better luck going with a Ford EEC-IV harness so you can use the Mustang PCM, and all the benefits of the extensive aftermarket that it has.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
I cant find any REAL tech articles on it, but there are a billion Mustang forums out there that have talked on the issue. The one above being just one of many.

Another one of my questions for you: What are you using for a wiring harness? Are you keeping it OBD2 for sake of emmissions? I think you would have MUCH better luck going with a Ford EEC-IV harness so you can use the Mustang PCM, and all the benefits of the extensive aftermarket that it has.

There are a few reasons why I've been keeping it OBD2. *Harness is a 96 or 98 explorer harness IIRC*

The Roots blower sits over CPS Sensor/spindle. This is where the Dizzy would normally sit, thats why my coilpacks have been relocated to the side of the blower.

Yes, In case of emissions (I think my truck is exempt... I'll have to look into it more later)

Ease of 'plug and play' with the Chassis harness to work with all accessories.
 
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