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Old 08-26-2013, 02:35 PM   #1
 
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Default More Issues... Mountaineer Won't Start.

I must have pissed the car gods off somehow... In addition to my srx's issues, on Saturday morning, my mountaineer wouldn't start. It'll turn over strong, but won't start.

Sprayed some starter fluid in the TB and it fired up and would run for a few seconds. So it's a no fuel issue, I believe. Checked the fuel pump fuse and it was good. Swapped the relay out and still didn't do anything. Reset and checked the inertia switch and it was fine.

Anything else to check before I drop the tank and replace the fuel pump?

TIA.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:39 PM   #2
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have the same issue with my 2002 4.0 moutaineer...checked all the fuel issues and every TSB possible and everything is fine...if i let it sit for about 30 mins it starts right up...i am completely clueless to what is causing this issue
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:46 PM   #3
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I must have pissed the car gods off somehow... In addition to my srx's issues, on Saturday morning, my mountaineer wouldn't start. It'll turn over strong, but won't start.

Sprayed some starter fluid in the TB and it fired up and would run for a few seconds. So it's a no fuel issue, I believe. Checked the fuel pump fuse and it was good. Swapped the relay out and still didn't do anything. Reset and checked the inertia switch and it was fine.

Anything else to check before I drop the tank and replace the fuel pump?

TIA.
This generation of RBV Trucks are more notorious for Coil pack, and Injector failures... Not super notorious for fuel pump failures.

Have your wifey rock the key from prime to off and back while being under it listening for the pump whine before even thinking about dropping the tank.

I have 2 BRAND NEW coil packs sitting in a box here somewhere, and some assorted injectors... You can borrow them to see if it takes care of the issue and fling me a few bucks if it does.

Let me know.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:47 PM   #4
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have the same issue with my 2002 4.0 moutaineer...checked all the fuel issues and every TSB possible and everything is fine...if i let it sit for about 30 mins it starts right up...i am completely clueless to what is causing this issue
Again, coil pack failures are super common on these things, would cause exactly what you are describing. Cracked/faulty coil pack gets moisture in it, drys out, works again.
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:49 PM   #5
 
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I can get the engine to fire up fine using starter fluid so to me, it's not a spark issue.

I can't hear a fuel pump when it's on, but never noticed it before. Also, I want to see if something else is cutting off the fuel pump before I replace the pump itself...
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Old 08-26-2013, 02:55 PM   #6
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I can get the engine to fire up fine using starter fluid so to me, it's not a spark issue.

I can't hear a fuel pump when it's on, but never noticed it before. Also, I want to see if something else is cutting off the fuel pump before I replace the pump itself...
Coil pack could cause weak spark or no spark in certain cyl's, getting it to fire on already finely atomized starter fluid doesn't necessarily negate a spark issue. Did it keep running after starting? Also, I assume you pulled the intake tube, so you may have been racking on the coils unintentionally while spraying fluid into the TB causing it to work.

Yours is a 99 or newer correct? Which would have the Returnless fuel system, so there is VERY little obviously to go wrong between the pump and rails. A side-effect of this is that the FPR is actually part of the fuel pump assembly and IN the tank. If that goes bad replacing the pump alone instead of the full assembly could potentially not resolve the issue (just be aware of that).

There should still be a Schredier *SP* valve on the rails for you to see if you are getting pressure at the rails with a small screwdriver and a rag.

And like I mentioned earlier, late 90's ford injectors were not the best, but I'd still not rule-out Coils, as I've had 2 RBV trucks have bizarre-ass no-start conditions both caused by coils.

two other possibilities:

Crank sensor (which handles fuel timing, I actually had this fail on the Ranger swap, and was the only time I was ever left 'stranded' by any of my RBV trucks)

Sits low on the motor obviously, gets caked in shit, hot, etc, etc. 2 8mm bolts holds it on, about 10 O'clock on the Crank Pulley

Cam sensor (Also helps Fuel timing, but obviously key in Ignition timing, I have a spare or two of this and the Spindle assembly you are welcome to test with if needed).
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:05 PM   #7
 
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I opened the schrader valve on the rail with a small screw driver and there was no fuel.

The engine cranks but has no signs of starting. Just turns, no stuttering, no cylinders trying to fire, nothing.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:10 PM   #8
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I opened the schrader valve on the rail with a small screw driver and there was no fuel.

The engine cranks but has no signs of starting. Just turns, no stuttering, no cylinders trying to fire, nothing.
I honestly don't recall if I got fuel at all when the Crank sensor went on the ranger.... But it was a like $12 sensor, so was worth the gamble and paid off for me.

If there is nothing at the Schrader, yea, I would say its not Spark finally

But on that note, if you replace the crank sensor, and still have nothing at the rail, be sure to buy the whole fuel pump assembly to replace the FPR that's in the tank as well in case that's the culprit, I'd shit bricks if I had to drop the tank twice.

***Edit***

A quick search on the explorer forum looks like the crank sensor AND cam sensor have a direct relation to fuel control:

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=263036
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:11 PM   #9
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feel or listen with a rubber hose for the injectors to click if they are all clicking and you have no fuel then it would be the fuel pump or fuel pump relay as the injectors clicking and the spark fire ring means that cam and crank signals are fine
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #10
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feel or listen with a rubber hose for the injectors to click if they are all clicking and you have no fuel then it would be the fuel pump or fuel pump relay as the injectors clicking and the spark fire ring means that cam and crank signals are fine
Negative.

Crank sensor (and potentially Cam sensor), both are wired direct with the fuel Relay for the RBV trucks. That's why I linked that other thread, I wasn't aware of that either.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:25 PM   #11
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wait, it only starts on starter fluid and it isnt ignition related?


isn't that a fuel pump problem?
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:35 PM   #12
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wait, it only starts on starter fluid and it isnt ignition related?


isn't that a fuel pump problem?
Negative

CPS and CKP both have direct control/interaction with the Fuel Pump Relay.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #13
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coulda swore everytime i diagnosed a fuel pump problem, it involved that step
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:50 PM   #14
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the fuel pump will still prime for 3 seconds without ckp/cps signal.
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Old 08-26-2013, 04:56 PM   #15
 
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the fuel pump will still prime for 3 seconds without ckp/cps signal.
Thanks @bikrboy128 Then I'm going to rule out the CPS and CPK sensors since there is never any fuel rail pressure.

This is a fuel pump problem but the point of this thread was to see if there was anything else to check first (ie pump fuse & relay or inertia switch) that would cause a fuel pump to not prime, before I suspect a bad pump and go through that process.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:02 PM   #16
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jump the pcm diode in the underhood fuse panel with a paper clip then try and start it. i'd bet this is the failure, not the fuel pump.

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Old 08-26-2013, 05:05 PM   #17
 
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I'll try that, but can I ask why?
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #18
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the pcm diode controls the fuel pump (among other things). they tend to crap out on the older exploders/mountaineers, alot more often then the fuel pump itself. much cheaper and easier than a fuel pump!
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:11 PM   #19
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i cant seem to find a picture of one, but it's looks like a black fuse, with one horizontal and one vertical prong. make sure you jump the one closest to the relay (and not the drl diode )
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:44 PM   #20
 
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what is the fuel pressure
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:50 PM   #21
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:18 AM   #22
 
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Checked everything and even the diode was good. Got under the car and saw that the pump is getting voltage. So it's the fuel pump, I guess.

Going to tackle it this weekend, but need to replace the PS pump on the caddy first this week.

Thanks for the help, all.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #23
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spot reserved for Dasfinc's apology...
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:00 AM   #24
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spot reserved for Dasfinc's apology...
Why would I apologize? I gave him a slew of other things to check that are common on RBV's to try to help save him the trouble/money if it wasn't the fuel pump
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:05 AM   #25
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wait, it only starts on starter fluid and it isnt ignition related?


isn't that a fuel pump problem?
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Negative

CPS and CKP both have direct control/interaction with the Fuel Pump Relay.
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Checked everything and even the diode was good. Got under the car and saw that the pump is getting voltage. So it's the fuel pump, I guess.

Going to tackle it this weekend, but need to replace the PS pump on the caddy first this week.

Thanks for the help, all.


just sayin
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