No-Start, Details inside, 98 Grand Prix GT

Dasfinc

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Sep 28, 2007
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So I did the deed, and I bought a 1998 Pontiac Grand Prix GT, 99K on the clock, body is very straight minus needing a new turn signal and a new front bumper (or it to be repainted)

Owner was a late 20's woman with a kid. (she's owned the car since 04)

She described that she was on the freeway coming up to a toll booth when the car 'lost power' (she did not say if it was still running or not, just that if she pushed the pedal, it had no power)

as she was coming up to the toll both she noticed smoke coming from the driver side close to the firewall.

she pulled over, let it sit 30 min, tried to restart with no luck, had it towed home.

her 'mechanic buddy' took off the serpentine and turned the crank about 3/4ths the way around and then 'it locked' and he said the motor was seized/locked and it would cost about 2 grand to fix.

I drove out and purchased the car and will be trailering it home:

The coolant was green and clean, the oil was a bit dark, but no metal shavings, and didn't look opaque or milky, just looked a little dirty

NO leaks, no fluids under the car what so ever, not a drip.

You try to turn it over, and it just kinda goes "Thunk" and the lights dim as the starter tries to turn it over but cannot.

Ideas guys? I have no problem replacing the motor, albeit if its fixable I'd rather fix it.

*Worked on it for a bit*

Discovered that the motor spins 3/4ths the way around as she had mentioned, and then will not go further, so the crank has like 280-300 degrees of travel before it feels like its hitting something. Spark plugs are pulled, oil has been replaced, starter is OFF of the car.

the 300 degrees of travel is smooth, then it suddenly stops, no noise, nothing.

Randomly lost 300 degrees, only has like 30 degrees now, I pulled the front valve cover, and saw that the motion LEFT with the crank is perfect with the full travel of one valve going up and down. (middle piston, Right (Driver side) valve.)
 
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Dasfinc

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Could be hydrolocked. Did you pull the plugs yet? The UIM on L36 motors tend to fall apart and leak coolant.

haven't pulled the plugs yet, I'm hauling it home on Sat or Sun. (Just paid for it and picked up the title last night)

any other ideas? she said it wasn't knocking or making any bad noises prior to the failure.
 

Dasfinc

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u cant ask that without checking it....

"My car is not starting, what could it be"

I would answer, does it have power? Check starter/battery

I'm asking

"My car is not starting with these symptoms, what could it be"

it could be hydrolocked

it could be ____________

I'm just looking for some more possibilities before I tear into it, things I should watch for that mean "The motor is garbage, buy a new one" or "its repairable"
 

WhiteDevil

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passenger side ...transverse mount motor..... which side are the belts on? Passenger side?

Think she could have just overheated it?

YOU should try turning it by hand,first pull the dipstick , ifs its milky its a headgasket if its got metallic shavings in it, its a bum bearing/rings. If you got chunks in the oil of both deposits and metal fragments, your shit is blown.


I was a mechanic for years, both civilian ASE master cert and US army 63B light wheel mech. never trust a civilian mechanic, they are there to make money and they will do it any way they can, especially to a woman.
 

Dasfinc

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I know, I don't trust mechanics either, especially ones that "spin the crank 3/4ths the way around, and doesn't check the plugs or oil and says the motor is fucked"

Heres what I checked while I was at the car:

No shavings in the oil, looked dirty, not milky, overfull if anything.

Coolant resivour was full, green clean coolant

no leaks under/around/by the car

Belt is on pass side, the 'mechanic' took off the serpentine and spun the crank until it stopped (this is what I was told)

I tried giving the car some juice and turned the key and it wouldn't crank.

I suspect hydrolock is possible as mentioned above, but that would probably make a fuck-ton of noise if it fucked the rods etc, probably bust a hole in the side of it if it bent a rod???

Possibly busted timing chain? (she's owned it since 54K miles, and I doubt she ever serviced it)

Shattered cam? (my buddies 98 olds van had its cam explode in its 3400 under normal driving circumstances)
 

Dasfinc

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maybe its was just a electrical short that caused the smoke lol

I almost wonder, she said smoke was coming from the driver side shock tower basically, and I can't think of what the fuck smoke would be coming from there (this is with the hood up she said) and that there was "Antifreeze or something" on the shocktower
 

Bob Kazamakis

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eh i would pull the plugs and check for damage. if everything is clean( i doubt it) i would check the upper intake manifold and gaskets. they tend to warp and leak. it could have a cylinder full of water/coolant (though you say the coolant is clean and full)

it could be a jammed starter; weak battery; blown fuse, fuel pump turning on, etc.

start with the engine first and just double check for anything suspicious..if everything checks out move on to the electrical system.
 

Dasfinc

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eh i would pull the plugs and check for damage. if everything is clean( i doubt it) i would check the upper intake manifold and gaskets. they tend to warp and leak. it could have a cylinder full of water/coolant (though you say the coolant is clean and full)

it could be a jammed starter; weak battery; blown fuse, fuel pump turning on, etc.

start with the engine first and just double check for anything suspicious..if everything checks out move on to the electrical system.

I don't think a Jammed starter would cause power loss?

weak battery would definatly stop it from turning over (which I expected since it had died, and I'm sure tried to start it quite a bit)

Fuel pump primes, so yea, dunno.

if there is coolant in a piston, is it a pretty high chance that a rod is bent/piston fucked?
 

Dasfinc

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picking it up Fri-Sun some time.

starter attempts, but does not crank. you feel/hear it "Thunk" trying to turn and the lights go dim, but it doesnt

I still think if it filled with coolant it would have been PLUMING smoke untill it finally stopped running, she said there was just a little smoke and only from the engine bay.
 

Bob Kazamakis

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you sure she was looking for symptoms while her car was dying on the highway?

cant really help much more than that for now. i would drain the oil too see if it has coolant in it.

could have dropped a valve or something along those line; though you wont know till you pull the plugs.
 

Dasfinc

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you sure she was looking for symptoms while her car was dying on the highway?

cant really help much more than that for now. i would drain the oil too see if it has coolant in it.

could have dropped a valve or something along those line; though you wont know till you pull the plugs.

no, she wasn't looking for symptoms, I just asked her to tell me exactly what she recalled happening when it failed, and I described it the best I could on here.

like I mention, oil didn't look milky, just a bit dirty, but obviously I'd drain it anyways.
 

Bob Kazamakis

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no, she wasn't looking for symptoms, I just asked her to tell me exactly what she recalled happening when it failed, and I described it the best I could on here.

like I mention, oil didn't look milky, just a bit dirty, but obviously I'd drain it anyways.

I'm just stating your source isnt the best...no offense to the lady.

as tough as 3800's are; you get a little coolant in the oil and bearings tend to spin easily. just make sure if there are signs of coolant you flush it out with a few oil changes.

if coolant is the problem its most likely the uim and/or gaskets. i know you can upgrade to the newer version aluminum uim and they make upgraded aluminum/o-ring gaskets now but are like $50
 

Dasfinc

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I'm just stating your source isnt the best...no offense to the lady.

as tough as 3800's are; you get a little coolant in the oil and bearings tend to spin easily. just make sure if there are signs of coolant you flush it out with a few oil changes.

if coolant is the problem its most likely the uim and/or gaskets. i know you can upgrade to the newer version aluminum uim and they make upgraded aluminum/o-ring gaskets now but are like $50

I guess the feeling I get, is that she obviously has no idea, and the 'mechanic buddy' really didn't sound like the sharpest tool in the shed.

If the car was brought to a SHOP and then she was told "the motor is fucked" I'd be a little more confident that it needs a motor, but since it was probably not abused (as she had a child seat in the back of it), and only has 99K on it, I suspect something maintenance related failed and may be repairable considering how sturdy these motors are. again, WORST CASE, I have to replace it with another L36 which isn't all that expensive, just time consuming, and cuts into profits.

I'd imagine if the gasket failed, there would be a noticable amount of coolant in the oil, which there wasn't, and she said there was no knocking or ticking or anything in the past months.
 

Ron Vogel

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You guys are probably making a mountain out of a mowhill here. The upper intake on these cars are known to fail, and very common to fail. There is a water jacket that goes around the EGR in the plastic intake. Eventually is disintegrates, and floods the cyl with coolant. Doorman sells a replacement that is upgraded for around $125.

Just pull the damn plugs and stop guessing.
 

Dasfinc

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You guys are probably making a mountain out of a mowhill here. The upper intake on these cars are known to fail, and very common to fail. There is a water jacket that goes around the EGR in the plastic intake. Eventually is disintegrates, and floods the cyl with coolant. Doorman sells a replacement that is upgraded for around $125.

Just pull the damn plugs and stop guessing.

well one more question, if what you described happened, are the rods probably done for?

I WILL pull the plugs, but I wanted to get some ideas of what else it could be before I get it (I will not have the car in my driveway until Sat or Sun.)

I'm not 3800 literate, so thats why I figure I'd get some ideas now, and if nothing else learn some.
 
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