Info on open road courses.Who does this type of racing on here?
- Thread starter 99 Stangbanger
- Start date
start by taking a driving school. you cant go racing without a racing license anyway. and in order to get one, you need to learn to drive first.
svtoa offers several local events, one coming up very soon at gingerman, where you can drive your car on the racetrack with an instructor.
i would also advise against making any changes to your car. learn to drive your car as-is. once you get out there you'll realize your car has more speed in it than you do at this point. plus its cheaper that way.
you'll notice that most of us who are road course nuts never refer to what we do as "racing" unless we're actually going wheel-to-wheel with other drivers in a competitive event (eg., a race
). if they catch you racing at a driving school they'll black flag you and you'll have to watch from the fence for a little while.
adding the word "open" to the mix as in "open road racing", to my mind means events like the silver state classic in nevada or chasing the dragon in the carolinas(?). i have mixed feelings about those kinds of events because we as a race of humans stopped doing that sort of thing just before wwII becuase it is far too dangerous. this is why today we have tracks like watkins glen and road america. those used to be races on public roads. you can still drive much of the old course around elkhart lake.
i started by joining a handful of clubs that i knew did road course events. i ran a bunch of events and decided whose events went better and which people were more fun to hang out with. i highly recommend you do something similar.
dont bother modifying the car yet. you'll spend enough money on tires, fuel, and brake pads in due time. not to mention the track fees. its usually about $300 for the weekend just to register. my car gets 70 miles to the tank on the road course so i'm filling my fuel tank upwards of six times in a weekend. 6 x $45 = $270. i try and start every track weekend with fresh brake pads up front $190. figure another $60 for food and beer for a weekend. tires and rotors last more than one weekend usually so you can prorate their cost over the amount of events you do.
it definately helps to be gainfully employed to participate in this hobby.
compare that to what alex job racing spent to run the 24 hours of lemans - $1.5 million to bring all their stuff over to france, put everyone up for a week, feed everyone, and do all those other things a team needs to do to run a race, and then actually go ahead and run the race. race teams are charities. the number one skill needed is getting people to write you checks.
svtoa offers several local events, one coming up very soon at gingerman, where you can drive your car on the racetrack with an instructor.
i would also advise against making any changes to your car. learn to drive your car as-is. once you get out there you'll realize your car has more speed in it than you do at this point. plus its cheaper that way.
you'll notice that most of us who are road course nuts never refer to what we do as "racing" unless we're actually going wheel-to-wheel with other drivers in a competitive event (eg., a race
). if they catch you racing at a driving school they'll black flag you and you'll have to watch from the fence for a little while.adding the word "open" to the mix as in "open road racing", to my mind means events like the silver state classic in nevada or chasing the dragon in the carolinas(?). i have mixed feelings about those kinds of events because we as a race of humans stopped doing that sort of thing just before wwII becuase it is far too dangerous. this is why today we have tracks like watkins glen and road america. those used to be races on public roads. you can still drive much of the old course around elkhart lake.
i started by joining a handful of clubs that i knew did road course events. i ran a bunch of events and decided whose events went better and which people were more fun to hang out with. i highly recommend you do something similar.
dont bother modifying the car yet. you'll spend enough money on tires, fuel, and brake pads in due time. not to mention the track fees. its usually about $300 for the weekend just to register. my car gets 70 miles to the tank on the road course so i'm filling my fuel tank upwards of six times in a weekend. 6 x $45 = $270. i try and start every track weekend with fresh brake pads up front $190. figure another $60 for food and beer for a weekend. tires and rotors last more than one weekend usually so you can prorate their cost over the amount of events you do.
it definately helps to be gainfully employed to participate in this hobby.
compare that to what alex job racing spent to run the 24 hours of lemans - $1.5 million to bring all their stuff over to france, put everyone up for a week, feed everyone, and do all those other things a team needs to do to run a race, and then actually go ahead and run the race. race teams are charities. the number one skill needed is getting people to write you checks.
ShelbyGuy said:start by taking a driving school. you cant go racing without a racing license anyway. and in order to get one, you need to learn to drive first.
svtoa offers several local events, one coming up very soon at gingerman, where you can drive your car on the racetrack with an instructor.
i would also advise against making any changes to your car. learn to drive your car as-is. once you get out there you'll realize your car has more speed in it than you do at this point. plus its cheaper that way.
you'll notice that most of us who are road course nuts never refer to what we do as "racing" unless we're actually going wheel-to-wheel with other drivers in a competitive event (eg., a race
adding the word "open" to the mix as in "open road racing", to my mind means events like the silver state classic in nevada or chasing the dragon in the carolinas(?). i have mixed feelings about those kinds of events because we as a race of humans stopped doing that sort of thing just before wwII becuase it is far too dangerous. this is why today we have tracks like watkins glen and road america. those used to be races on public roads. you can still drive much of the old course around elkhart lake.
i started by joining a handful of clubs that i knew did road course events. i ran a bunch of events and decided whose events went better and which people were more fun to hang out with. i highly recommend you do something similar.
dont bother modifying the car yet. you'll spend enough money on tires, fuel, and brake pads in due time. not to mention the track fees. its usually about $300 for the weekend just to register. my car gets 70 miles to the tank on the road course so i'm filling my fuel tank upwards of six times in a weekend. 6 x $45 = $270. i try and start every track weekend with fresh brake pads up front $190. figure another $60 for food and beer for a weekend. tires and rotors last more than one weekend usually so you can prorate their cost over the amount of events you do.
it definately helps to be gainfully employed to participate in this hobby.
compare that to what alex job racing spent to run the 24 hours of lemans - $1.5 million to bring all their stuff over to france, put everyone up for a week, feed everyone, and do all those other things a team needs to do to run a race, and then actually go ahead and run the race. race teams are charities. the number one skill needed is getting people to write you checks.
Cool, Thanks for the info. Dont really have full knowledge of the correct terms used but I think you get the idea of what I want to do :biggthump
Joining clubs....
Any info you can give me so I can take a peek and see whats going on? Get my feet wet kind of :cool2:
Making changes.....
So leave in place the crappy struts and shocks for now?
Learning......
I know all about going to school and learning first. I was a pro AMA rider for many years and RACED Road America more than 15 times w/ 2 different teams. I know I need to learn a completely different thing now. No issues there what so ever :biggthump
As for the money issue..
I own my own construction business and have been setting aside money to allow myself to start to invest in this car and to allow for future improvements when needed. Not worried about funds just right yet. Like I said before.... I just want to run the track/course and have fun. Not into staright lines anymore
Just a note....
I raced on all of the tracks below and also a few outside of the U.S. So, I am not a total noob when it comes to getting around a track. Just have to dial in my car handling skills.
Daytona International
Speedway, Daytona, FL
Barber Motorsports Park
Birmingham, AL
California Speedway
Fontana, CA
Infineon Raceway
Sonoma, CA
Road America
Elkhart Lake, WI
Miller Motorsports Park
Tooele, UT
Mazda Raceway at Laguna Seca
Monterey, CA
Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course
Lexington, OH
Virginia International Raceway
Alton, VA
Road Atlanta
Braselton, GA
Well I thought I would start my process by asking some of you fellow Mustang owners first about how I should go about this adventure.With any sports, its tuff to get advice when your a noob trying to get in. So I guess I will will start by checking out SVTOA and events ect...
Thanks for your helpfull advice. Please feel free to drop me any other input negative or positive is all welcome here :headbang:
ok so you dont need to learn the tracks as such, and you're much more limited as to the line through a corner in a tin top than on a bike.
nevertheless, i'd stay stock for the first couple of events if only as a teaching exercise in car control. the more you do to the car, the more you risk the car being able to cover up your mistakes. underpowered, undersprung, and undertired is a great way to learn smoothness and momentum and hey you may decide you need more brakes and stickier tires before you need springs and shocks. thats all i'm saying.
svtoa will be at gingerman the 15th and the 16th. registration is still open, but even if you didnt want to participate, you could at least check it out and see if its something you might like to do.
nevertheless, i'd stay stock for the first couple of events if only as a teaching exercise in car control. the more you do to the car, the more you risk the car being able to cover up your mistakes. underpowered, undersprung, and undertired is a great way to learn smoothness and momentum
and hey you may decide you need more brakes and stickier tires before you need springs and shocks. thats all i'm saying.svtoa will be at gingerman the 15th and the 16th. registration is still open, but even if you didnt want to participate, you could at least check it out and see if its something you might like to do.
ShelbyGuy said:
+1
ShelbyGuy said:i'd stay stock for the first couple of events if only as a teaching exercise in car control. the more you do to the car, the more you risk the car being able to cover up your mistakes. underpowered, undersprung, and undertired is a great way to learn smoothness and momentum
+1
I ran my first event in 2005, ran about 10 events in 2006. I made some changes right away because I listened to the wrong people, but after the 2nd event I stopped modding my car and just drove it. After I found deficiencies in the car based on how I drove it, I made corrections.
I would sign up for events @ Autobahn, Blackhawk Farms, Gingerman, Putnam Park. I've never been to Road America, but as a beginner it may not be as helpful as a smaller course. What you need to learn is the corners (Turn in, Apex and Track out). Road America would seem to be more fun, but perhaps less learning for a newbie.
There are some good books, check out the suggested reading material on corner-carvers.
The only thing I would suggest is an upgraded brake pad + make sure you have some fresh brake fluid w/ a high boiling point. Stay away from silicone brake fluid. If you get tires, I suggest the Falken Azenis from DTD. I would go w/ a street tire with a treadwear between 200 ~ 300 for now. Going w/ an R compound tire before you learn cornering does not teach you to be a good driver, it will mask your mistakes. I passed so many people last year who were on R compounds and didn't know how to drive, and I was on street tires. You learn a lot of car control on street tires with stock suspension.
Thanks Vince :biggthump
Glad to get some much needed advice from you two guys so far. It all helps and the best part is that I wont make the mistakes right off the bat like modding my ride to fast. I will attend the Gingerman course and check it out. I will also check out "ALL" that you guys have advised me of and start this new adventure the correct way. I have no need to jump into anything in a hurry but willing to sit back and learn the basics.
Q.....
Are there any local course around here (IL) where I can just go and watch and get out and meet people who do this?
Again thanks to you both!
Oh yea. Going to join the SVTOA this week :headbang:
Glad to get some much needed advice from you two guys so far. It all helps and the best part is that I wont make the mistakes right off the bat like modding my ride to fast. I will attend the Gingerman course and check it out. I will also check out "ALL" that you guys have advised me of and start this new adventure the correct way. I have no need to jump into anything in a hurry but willing to sit back and learn the basics.
Q.....
Are there any local course around here (IL) where I can just go and watch and get out and meet people who do this?
Again thanks to you both!
Oh yea. Going to join the SVTOA this week :headbang:
ShelbyGuy said:ok so you dont need to learn the tracks as such, and you're much more limited as to the line through a corner in a tin top than on a bike.
nevertheless, i'd stay stock for the first couple of events if only as a teaching exercise in car control. the more you do to the car, the more you risk the car being able to cover up your mistakes. underpowered, undersprung, and undertired is a great way to learn smoothness and momentum
svtoa will be at gingerman the 15th and the 16th. registration is still open, but even if you didnt want to participate, you could at least check it out and see if its something you might like to do.
Cool,
I will check it out ( Gingerman) and sit back and watch and meet people. No need to jump in right away. I do agree with all your advice so far and see no reason to dump money in my car as I was going to till I learn its weakness for myself along with mine
.Q... Teaching schools, Where are they? I want to start this right away :burnout:
99 Stangbanger said:
Autobahn in Joliet. Check their calendar of events and pick a date to go there. Call the sponsor of the event and get their approval. I would suggest going there July 21~23 with the NASA group or July 29/30 w/ SCCA.
I could also take you on the track sometime if you like. But I tend to overdrive my car and get my passengers sick.
Teaching Schools - for a low budget approach where you will actually be learning in YOUR car, just sign up for any HPDE program put on by NASA, SVTOA, BMW, Porsche, Etc.
Skip Barber and Performance Drivers Inc., also instruct @ Autobahn on some days as well as CGI Motorsports @ Gingerman.
How to get your car on the race track! (with turns, lol)
Thought I would post this FAQ to help anybody interested in taking their car to the race track (one with turns) but didn't know where to start or what is required. If anybody has suggestions, contributions, questions, etc. post up!
Q. What kind of events are you talking about?
A. Well, there are quite a few different types of events that involve driving your car on a road course. Here are some examples:
HPDE's - My main focus of this FAQ will be HPDE's or High Performance Driving Events/Education, which can also be considered a driving school. These are non-competitive events and timing equipment is usually prohibited. Most groups (novice, intermediate) only allow passing with a "point-by" (driver in front signals that it is OK to pass him/her). Some events welcome any/all brand of cars, while others are marquee-specific (like club events).
Car club driving events - These are HPDE's hosted by a non-profit car club such as BMWCCA or other marquee clubs. Some events are open to other brand of cars, but all will require a membership to their national organization and sometimes a pledge to the local chapter. Other events limit the participants to a specific marquee or give their local members first dibs at registration.
Most HPDE's and club driving events offer some sort of instruction, be it classroom-led instruction and/or an in-car instructor. If you are planning your first event, MAKE SURE some instruction is available for first-time track drivers. Naturally, some events have better instruction than others.
Time Attack or Solo I - This is a timed (competitive) event that involves a road course instead of a parking lot with cones. Most parking lot autocross is called Solo-II and a road course autocross is called Solo-I. From the name "solo", these events are just you against the clock, without any overtaking (passing) or other cars to trade paint with. Also, the safety requirements for Solo-I is usually less than it would be if you were going Wheel-to-wheel (w2w) racing. Here is a local organization that hosts Solo-I events in the Midwest.
Stepping up the ladder is wheel-to-wheel racing, which exponentially increases the cost, risk, committment, and amount of prep required. W2W racing is beyond the scope of this FAQ, but some racing links are provided at bottom of this post.
Q. What kind of race track are you talking about?
A. This FAQ deals with road courses, you may see these types of race tracks while watching a ALMS or Speed World Challenge race on TV. Most road courses are usually between one to four miles long and have somewhere between 9 to 14 corners. Most tracks are permanent fixtures (i.e. Road America, Autobahn CC, Blackhawk Farms), some are paved infield connected to an oval (sometimes called rovals, see Gateway International Raceway), and others are temporary circuits made from roads or airstrips for the weekend of racing. Most of these events I am talking about are on permanent courses or rovals.
Q. What tracks are in our (Central IL) area?
A. See my links near bottom of post (Near-by Tracks)
Q. Is this racing?
A. No. Track events are usually considered drivers education or driving schools. One train of thought is that a school or drivers education would be more likely to be covered by your auto insurance.
Q. How different is this from autocross?
A. You will reach much faster speeds at HPDE and get a lot more seat time. Typical DE's get between 90-120 minutes of driving per day (where autocross is about 5-8 minutes). You WILL use more brakes at a DE, you WILL do more shifting.
Autocross skills are a great foundation for road courses.
Q. Where do I sign up? What groups/companies run these events?
A. See the Driving School links near bottom of post. Also see if your brand of car has a car club and regional chapter.
Q. When should I register?
A. Most events fill up really quick... get your applications in ASAP! Try sending in your registration the first day you can.
Q. How much does it cost?
A. It varies. I have seen events range from $175 to $350 per day. Depends on the track too... a course like Road America or Road Atlanta will be more expensive than a smaller track (like Autobahn or Blackhawk)
Q. When is the next event? How can I find a calendar of events?
A. Couple of ways.
1. trackschedule.com
2. Check local car club and driving schools for upcoming schedules (see links at bottom)
3. Check the track's calendar on their web sites, sometimes you can see who is renting the track and maybe join
4. Check other forums with a track section (i.e. bimmerforums)
I plan on putting together a thread with upcoming HPDE events soon. Keep an eye out for it.
Q. My own car? What are the requirements?
A. Depends on the organizers, but there are usually some common requirements:
1. Brakes in great shape and recent brake fluid FLUSH (not just bleed)
2. No play or bad bushings in your suspension
3. no noticeable fluid leaks
4. Battery must be secured
5. Working brake lights
6. Windshield wipers and no major windshield cracks
Also, some events offer rental track cars or there might be nearby companies/people who will rent track/race cars for the weekend (but usually not cheap, expect to pay $300+ per day)
Q. Any special apparel or equipment needed?
A. Yes, you need a helmet. I highly recommend a Snell SA2000 or above. Some events/tracks allow motorcycle helmets (snell rating starts with M instead of SA) but others do not. For example, Motorcycle helmets are not allowed at Putnam (track rule). Expect to pay about $260+ for a decent helmet.
You will need close-toed shoes and long pants. Most events require a long-sleeve shirt too. Optionally you can bring some gloves (I use some old batting gloves, works just fine!)
Q. How fast do you go?
A. Depends on the track and car. I hit ~130 mph on the back straight at Road Atlanta. Would expect that or close to it on either straight at Road America next time I visit. Just depends on the car and the track.
Q. Sounds dangerous... will I crash?
A. Accidents DO happen! I have seen cars get totalled. It happens. How often? About 50% of the events I have been to have had atleast one major crash. Some BMWCCA weekends at Road Atlanta can claim 5-6 totalled cars in two days! Nuts. Just know your limits and dial it back a lil bit. I try not to exceed 8/10ths and take a gradual approach to exploring the limits.
Q. What if I crash my car?
A. I have heard some insurance companies will cover it, some won't. State Farm is supposed to be pretty good about it, but don't quote me.
Q. How can I be best prepared?
A. Leave your ego at home, especially for your first event. It's not a contest and no winner/loser unless you crash (definate loser). There is a lot to learn and might be initially overwhelming all the things you need to do at once (like heel-toe shifting)
Ways to be prepared - I highly recommend the book "Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley before your first event. This book will give you some foundational concepts
so you can more easily follow along with what your instructor is saying.
You can learn/practice heel-toe shifting before your first event. It's a lot easier to learn this on the streets than under the pressure of your first track day. Also, practice your rev-matching as you want to do this on both up and downshifts. (less disruptive to your drive wheels, which may be near their limits of adhesion). Also, get in the habit of accelerating through your turns (slow in, fast out) and NOT braking in the turns (brake before the turn). Practice being smooth with your inputs. Do not abruptly lift the throttle during cornering, etc. (hint: read Speed Secrets)
Q. What is Heel-Toe shifting?
A. I'm glad you asked.
In a nutshell, its downshifting (and rev-matching) WHILE you are braking for the next turn. Here are some how-to's that should help:
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_heeltoe.shtml
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/heelandtoe.html
Q. What should I bring on track day?
A. Plenty of fluids (not beer), a folding chair, tire pressure gauge, some windex and paper towels (for cleaning the windshield), maybe a 12V air compressor if you have one. Torque wrench to make sure the lug nuts are on tight (only when the hub is cooled down)
Q. I don't have a car for this, what are some cheap recommendations?
A. Check out GrassRoots Motorsports magazine. Some good choices on a budget would be Miata, 240SX, BMW 3-series, RX-7, GTI, Corvette, plus many more.
Q. Any track you recommend for a first event? What is your favorite track?
A. More important, find an event with great instruction for your first one.
Additional Links and Sources:
Sports Car Club of America
TrackSchedule.com
GrassRoots Motorsports magazine
MotorsportReg national calendar
Driving/Racing Schools:
Track Time Inc. Driving Schools
Panoz Racing School
NASA HPDE Program
Near-by Tracks:
Autobahn Country Club Joliet, IL
Gateway International Raceway roval in E. St. Louis
Blackhawk Farms Raceway near Beloit, WI
Putnam Park Mt. Meridian, IN
GingerMan Raceway in South Haven, MI
Grattan Raceway in Belding, MI
Road America in Elkart Lake, WI
Local car clubs or chapters:
Midwestern Council Sports Car Club
Wisconsin BMW CCA
Chicagoland Chapter Audi Car Club
Central Division SCCA
Windy City BMW CCA
Midwest NASA
Marquee specific clubs:
BMW Car Club of America
Audi Club North America
Phil Wicks Driving Academy (mostly geared towards Mini's)
Any questions, lemme know!
Thought I would post this FAQ to help anybody interested in taking their car to the race track (one with turns) but didn't know where to start or what is required. If anybody has suggestions, contributions, questions, etc. post up!
Q. What kind of events are you talking about?
A. Well, there are quite a few different types of events that involve driving your car on a road course. Here are some examples:
HPDE's - My main focus of this FAQ will be HPDE's or High Performance Driving Events/Education, which can also be considered a driving school. These are non-competitive events and timing equipment is usually prohibited. Most groups (novice, intermediate) only allow passing with a "point-by" (driver in front signals that it is OK to pass him/her). Some events welcome any/all brand of cars, while others are marquee-specific (like club events).
Car club driving events - These are HPDE's hosted by a non-profit car club such as BMWCCA or other marquee clubs. Some events are open to other brand of cars, but all will require a membership to their national organization and sometimes a pledge to the local chapter. Other events limit the participants to a specific marquee or give their local members first dibs at registration.
Most HPDE's and club driving events offer some sort of instruction, be it classroom-led instruction and/or an in-car instructor. If you are planning your first event, MAKE SURE some instruction is available for first-time track drivers. Naturally, some events have better instruction than others.
Time Attack or Solo I - This is a timed (competitive) event that involves a road course instead of a parking lot with cones. Most parking lot autocross is called Solo-II and a road course autocross is called Solo-I. From the name "solo", these events are just you against the clock, without any overtaking (passing) or other cars to trade paint with. Also, the safety requirements for Solo-I is usually less than it would be if you were going Wheel-to-wheel (w2w) racing. Here is a local organization that hosts Solo-I events in the Midwest.
Stepping up the ladder is wheel-to-wheel racing, which exponentially increases the cost, risk, committment, and amount of prep required. W2W racing is beyond the scope of this FAQ, but some racing links are provided at bottom of this post.
Q. What kind of race track are you talking about?
A. This FAQ deals with road courses, you may see these types of race tracks while watching a ALMS or Speed World Challenge race on TV. Most road courses are usually between one to four miles long and have somewhere between 9 to 14 corners. Most tracks are permanent fixtures (i.e. Road America, Autobahn CC, Blackhawk Farms), some are paved infield connected to an oval (sometimes called rovals, see Gateway International Raceway), and others are temporary circuits made from roads or airstrips for the weekend of racing. Most of these events I am talking about are on permanent courses or rovals.
Q. What tracks are in our (Central IL) area?
A. See my links near bottom of post (Near-by Tracks)
Q. Is this racing?
A. No. Track events are usually considered drivers education or driving schools. One train of thought is that a school or drivers education would be more likely to be covered by your auto insurance.
Q. How different is this from autocross?
A. You will reach much faster speeds at HPDE and get a lot more seat time. Typical DE's get between 90-120 minutes of driving per day (where autocross is about 5-8 minutes). You WILL use more brakes at a DE, you WILL do more shifting.
Autocross skills are a great foundation for road courses.
Q. Where do I sign up? What groups/companies run these events?
A. See the Driving School links near bottom of post. Also see if your brand of car has a car club and regional chapter.
Q. When should I register?
A. Most events fill up really quick... get your applications in ASAP! Try sending in your registration the first day you can.
Q. How much does it cost?
A. It varies. I have seen events range from $175 to $350 per day. Depends on the track too... a course like Road America or Road Atlanta will be more expensive than a smaller track (like Autobahn or Blackhawk)
Q. When is the next event? How can I find a calendar of events?
A. Couple of ways.
1. trackschedule.com
2. Check local car club and driving schools for upcoming schedules (see links at bottom)
3. Check the track's calendar on their web sites, sometimes you can see who is renting the track and maybe join
4. Check other forums with a track section (i.e. bimmerforums)
I plan on putting together a thread with upcoming HPDE events soon. Keep an eye out for it.
Q. My own car? What are the requirements?
A. Depends on the organizers, but there are usually some common requirements:
1. Brakes in great shape and recent brake fluid FLUSH (not just bleed)
2. No play or bad bushings in your suspension
3. no noticeable fluid leaks
4. Battery must be secured
5. Working brake lights
6. Windshield wipers and no major windshield cracks
Also, some events offer rental track cars or there might be nearby companies/people who will rent track/race cars for the weekend (but usually not cheap, expect to pay $300+ per day)
Q. Any special apparel or equipment needed?
A. Yes, you need a helmet. I highly recommend a Snell SA2000 or above. Some events/tracks allow motorcycle helmets (snell rating starts with M instead of SA) but others do not. For example, Motorcycle helmets are not allowed at Putnam (track rule). Expect to pay about $260+ for a decent helmet.
You will need close-toed shoes and long pants. Most events require a long-sleeve shirt too. Optionally you can bring some gloves (I use some old batting gloves, works just fine!)
Q. How fast do you go?
A. Depends on the track and car. I hit ~130 mph on the back straight at Road Atlanta. Would expect that or close to it on either straight at Road America next time I visit. Just depends on the car and the track.
Q. Sounds dangerous... will I crash?
A. Accidents DO happen! I have seen cars get totalled. It happens. How often? About 50% of the events I have been to have had atleast one major crash. Some BMWCCA weekends at Road Atlanta can claim 5-6 totalled cars in two days! Nuts. Just know your limits and dial it back a lil bit. I try not to exceed 8/10ths and take a gradual approach to exploring the limits.
Q. What if I crash my car?
A. I have heard some insurance companies will cover it, some won't. State Farm is supposed to be pretty good about it, but don't quote me.
Q. How can I be best prepared?
A. Leave your ego at home, especially for your first event. It's not a contest and no winner/loser unless you crash (definate loser). There is a lot to learn and might be initially overwhelming all the things you need to do at once (like heel-toe shifting)
Ways to be prepared - I highly recommend the book "Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley before your first event. This book will give you some foundational concepts
so you can more easily follow along with what your instructor is saying.
You can learn/practice heel-toe shifting before your first event. It's a lot easier to learn this on the streets than under the pressure of your first track day. Also, practice your rev-matching as you want to do this on both up and downshifts. (less disruptive to your drive wheels, which may be near their limits of adhesion). Also, get in the habit of accelerating through your turns (slow in, fast out) and NOT braking in the turns (brake before the turn). Practice being smooth with your inputs. Do not abruptly lift the throttle during cornering, etc. (hint: read Speed Secrets)
Q. What is Heel-Toe shifting?
A. I'm glad you asked.
In a nutshell, its downshifting (and rev-matching) WHILE you are braking for the next turn. Here are some how-to's that should help:
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_heeltoe.shtml
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/heelandtoe.html
Q. What should I bring on track day?
A. Plenty of fluids (not beer), a folding chair, tire pressure gauge, some windex and paper towels (for cleaning the windshield), maybe a 12V air compressor if you have one. Torque wrench to make sure the lug nuts are on tight (only when the hub is cooled down)
Q. I don't have a car for this, what are some cheap recommendations?
A. Check out GrassRoots Motorsports magazine. Some good choices on a budget would be Miata, 240SX, BMW 3-series, RX-7, GTI, Corvette, plus many more.
Q. Any track you recommend for a first event? What is your favorite track?
A. More important, find an event with great instruction for your first one.
Additional Links and Sources:
Sports Car Club of America
TrackSchedule.com
GrassRoots Motorsports magazine
MotorsportReg national calendar
Driving/Racing Schools:
Track Time Inc. Driving Schools
Panoz Racing School
NASA HPDE Program
Near-by Tracks:
Autobahn Country Club Joliet, IL
Gateway International Raceway roval in E. St. Louis
Blackhawk Farms Raceway near Beloit, WI
Putnam Park Mt. Meridian, IN
GingerMan Raceway in South Haven, MI
Grattan Raceway in Belding, MI
Road America in Elkart Lake, WI
Local car clubs or chapters:
Midwestern Council Sports Car Club
Wisconsin BMW CCA
Chicagoland Chapter Audi Car Club
Central Division SCCA
Windy City BMW CCA
Midwest NASA
Marquee specific clubs:
BMW Car Club of America
Audi Club North America
Phil Wicks Driving Academy (mostly geared towards Mini's)
Any questions, lemme know!
thanks, hornswaggler! have we met at a track?
is there anyone reading this that has been to either the bertl roos school or darek daly academy?
someday im going to have to decide whether i want to swtich to monoposto cars or not.
i could trade in the cobra on an f150, buy a used club formula ford with trailer and spares, and still have money left over.
is there anyone reading this that has been to either the bertl roos school or darek daly academy?
someday im going to have to decide whether i want to swtich to monoposto cars or not.
i could trade in the cobra on an f150, buy a used club formula ford with trailer and spares, and still have money left over.
Hornswoggler said:Thought I would post this FAQ to help anybody interested in taking their car to the race track (one with turns) but didn't know where to start or what is required. If anybody has suggestions, contributions, questions, etc. post up!
Q. What kind of events are you talking about?
A. Well, there are quite a few different types of events that involve driving your car on a road course. Here are some examples:
HPDE's - My main focus of this FAQ will be HPDE's or High Performance Driving Events/Education, which can also be considered a driving school. These are non-competitive events and timing equipment is usually prohibited. Most groups (novice, intermediate) only allow passing with a "point-by" (driver in front signals that it is OK to pass him/her). Some events welcome any/all brand of cars, while others are marquee-specific (like club events).
Car club driving events - These are HPDE's hosted by a non-profit car club such as BMWCCA or other marquee clubs. Some events are open to other brand of cars, but all will require a membership to their national organization and sometimes a pledge to the local chapter. Other events limit the participants to a specific marquee or give their local members first dibs at registration.
Most HPDE's and club driving events offer some sort of instruction, be it classroom-led instruction and/or an in-car instructor. If you are planning your first event, MAKE SURE some instruction is available for first-time track drivers. Naturally, some events have better instruction than others.
Time Attack or Solo I - This is a timed (competitive) event that involves a road course instead of a parking lot with cones. Most parking lot autocross is called Solo-II and a road course autocross is called Solo-I. From the name "solo", these events are just you against the clock, without any overtaking (passing) or other cars to trade paint with. Also, the safety requirements for Solo-I is usually less than it would be if you were going Wheel-to-wheel (w2w) racing. Here is a local organization that hosts Solo-I events in the Midwest.
Stepping up the ladder is wheel-to-wheel racing, which exponentially increases the cost, risk, committment, and amount of prep required. W2W racing is beyond the scope of this FAQ, but some racing links are provided at bottom of this post.
Q. What kind of race track are you talking about?
A. This FAQ deals with road courses, you may see these types of race tracks while watching a ALMS or Speed World Challenge race on TV. Most road courses are usually between one to four miles long and have somewhere between 9 to 14 corners. Most tracks are permanent fixtures (i.e. Road America, Autobahn CC, Blackhawk Farms), some are paved infield connected to an oval (sometimes called rovals, see Gateway International Raceway), and others are temporary circuits made from roads or airstrips for the weekend of racing. Most of these events I am talking about are on permanent courses or rovals.
Q. What tracks are in our (Central IL) area?
A. See my links near bottom of post (Near-by Tracks)
Q. Is this racing?
A. No. Track events are usually considered drivers education or driving schools. One train of thought is that a school or drivers education would be more likely to be covered by your auto insurance.
Q. How different is this from autocross?
A. You will reach much faster speeds at HPDE and get a lot more seat time. Typical DE's get between 90-120 minutes of driving per day (where autocross is about 5-8 minutes). You WILL use more brakes at a DE, you WILL do more shifting.
Autocross skills are a great foundation for road courses.
Q. Where do I sign up? What groups/companies run these events?
A. See the Driving School links near bottom of post. Also see if your brand of car has a car club and regional chapter.
Q. When should I register?
A. Most events fill up really quick... get your applications in ASAP! Try sending in your registration the first day you can.
Q. How much does it cost?
A. It varies. I have seen events range from $175 to $350 per day. Depends on the track too... a course like Road America or Road Atlanta will be more expensive than a smaller track (like Autobahn or Blackhawk)
Q. When is the next event? How can I find a calendar of events?
A. Couple of ways.
1. trackschedule.com
2. Check local car club and driving schools for upcoming schedules (see links at bottom)
3. Check the track's calendar on their web sites, sometimes you can see who is renting the track and maybe join
4. Check other forums with a track section (i.e. bimmerforums)
I plan on putting together a thread with upcoming HPDE events soon. Keep an eye out for it.
Q. My own car? What are the requirements?
A. Depends on the organizers, but there are usually some common requirements:
1. Brakes in great shape and recent brake fluid FLUSH (not just bleed)
2. No play or bad bushings in your suspension
3. no noticeable fluid leaks
4. Battery must be secured
5. Working brake lights
6. Windshield wipers and no major windshield cracks
Also, some events offer rental track cars or there might be nearby companies/people who will rent track/race cars for the weekend (but usually not cheap, expect to pay $300+ per day)
Q. Any special apparel or equipment needed?
A. Yes, you need a helmet. I highly recommend a Snell SA2000 or above. Some events/tracks allow motorcycle helmets (snell rating starts with M instead of SA) but others do not. For example, Motorcycle helmets are not allowed at Putnam (track rule). Expect to pay about $260+ for a decent helmet.
You will need close-toed shoes and long pants. Most events require a long-sleeve shirt too. Optionally you can bring some gloves (I use some old batting gloves, works just fine!)
Q. How fast do you go?
A. Depends on the track and car. I hit ~130 mph on the back straight at Road Atlanta. Would expect that or close to it on either straight at Road America next time I visit. Just depends on the car and the track.
Q. Sounds dangerous... will I crash?
A. Accidents DO happen! I have seen cars get totalled. It happens. How often? About 50% of the events I have been to have had atleast one major crash. Some BMWCCA weekends at Road Atlanta can claim 5-6 totalled cars in two days! Nuts. Just know your limits and dial it back a lil bit. I try not to exceed 8/10ths and take a gradual approach to exploring the limits.
Q. What if I crash my car?
A. I have heard some insurance companies will cover it, some won't. State Farm is supposed to be pretty good about it, but don't quote me.
Q. How can I be best prepared?
A. Leave your ego at home, especially for your first event. It's not a contest and no winner/loser unless you crash (definate loser). There is a lot to learn and might be initially overwhelming all the things you need to do at once (like heel-toe shifting)
Ways to be prepared - I highly recommend the book "Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley before your first event. This book will give you some foundational concepts
so you can more easily follow along with what your instructor is saying.
You can learn/practice heel-toe shifting before your first event. It's a lot easier to learn this on the streets than under the pressure of your first track day. Also, practice your rev-matching as you want to do this on both up and downshifts. (less disruptive to your drive wheels, which may be near their limits of adhesion). Also, get in the habit of accelerating through your turns (slow in, fast out) and NOT braking in the turns (brake before the turn). Practice being smooth with your inputs. Do not abruptly lift the throttle during cornering, etc. (hint: read Speed Secrets)
Q. What is Heel-Toe shifting?
A. I'm glad you asked.
In a nutshell, its downshifting (and rev-matching) WHILE you are braking for the next turn. Here are some how-to's that should help:
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving/driving_heeltoe.shtml
http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/heelandtoe.html
Q. What should I bring on track day?
A. Plenty of fluids (not beer), a folding chair, tire pressure gauge, some windex and paper towels (for cleaning the windshield), maybe a 12V air compressor if you have one. Torque wrench to make sure the lug nuts are on tight (only when the hub is cooled down)
Q. I don't have a car for this, what are some cheap recommendations?
A. Check out GrassRoots Motorsports magazine. Some good choices on a budget would be Miata, 240SX, BMW 3-series, RX-7, GTI, Corvette, plus many more.
Q. Any track you recommend for a first event? What is your favorite track?
A. More important, find an event with great instruction for your first one.
Additional Links and Sources:
Sports Car Club of America
TrackSchedule.com
GrassRoots Motorsports magazine
MotorsportReg national calendar
Driving/Racing Schools:
Track Time Inc. Driving Schools
Panoz Racing School
NASA HPDE Program
Near-by Tracks:
Autobahn Country Club Joliet, IL
Gateway International Raceway roval in E. St. Louis
Blackhawk Farms Raceway near Beloit, WI
Putnam Park Mt. Meridian, IN
GingerMan Raceway in South Haven, MI
Grattan Raceway in Belding, MI
Road America in Elkart Lake, WI
Local car clubs or chapters:
Midwestern Council Sports Car Club
Wisconsin BMW CCA
Chicagoland Chapter Audi Car Club
Central Division SCCA
Windy City BMW CCA
Midwest NASA
Marquee specific clubs:
BMW Car Club of America
Audi Club North America
Phil Wicks Driving Academy (mostly geared towards Mini's)
Any questions, lemme know!
WOW :headbang: Thats AWESOME info you put up. Thanks alot. Bet many will be glad to see this info here. Nice job :biggthump
CobraSusie said:
So you are a director for SVTOA
I want to join Hook me up :headbang: Put me in :biggthump send me my bill No really.. I do want to become a member real soon. I visited the website the other day and plan on checking it out this weekend again and look around to find out how I become a member.
Sent ya a PM too.
I'm slow. I just saw this topic. From what I hear:VenomInside said:
-The stock rear should be fine as you're not launching the car.
-Brakes on the LT1s need some work, LS1s are ok. For the first time out, the stock pads will be fine, afterwards you'll want track pads for the heat
-You can get some axle hop under braking. I'm not sure what the fix is.
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