Motor Trend - Camaro ZL1 vs Mustang BOSS 302 Laguna Seca on the Track

Mook

Mr. Manager
Staff member
Admin
May 23, 2007
206,693
117,574
Elgin
Real Name
Mike
Live and Independent - New Muscle Meets the Last of the Old Guard

2012-Chevrolet-Camaro-ZL1-front-three-quarters-in-motion.jpg


2012-Ford-Mustang-Boss-302-Laguna-Seca-cockpit-front-three-quarters-in-motion.jpg


From the March, 2012 issue of Motor Trend
By Michael Febbo | Photos Brian Vance

It was the 1960s. The Baby Boomers were in their 20s; we had the technology to put a man on the moon; and social change was the new social norm. Ford's idea guy, Lee Iacocca, decided it was time to go after the youth market with a small, performance-oriented fashion piece built from off-the-shelf parts that would turn heads on the streets and profits in showrooms. The plan was not only simple but brilliant. The 1964 Mustang was born to instant success, with dealers taking 22,000 orders on the first day. Ford hoped to sell 100,000 cars in the first year of production, but after extending the model year to meet orders, more than 600,000 1964-1965 Mustangs galloped off lots. Clearly, this Lee guy was on to something, and that something would later be dubbed the ponycar.

Chevrolet was not about to let Ford run away with this new market. Within two years of the Mustang's launch, GM had its own ponycar headed to showrooms and eventually racetracks. The Camaro was bigger and heavier and had more powerful engine options than the lithe Ford. The trend of bigger and faster would continue until the gas crunch of the '70s, and, even then, the quest for power continued as expectations for comfort and convenience were rising.

Jump forward to more recent events. The Mustang has remained in continuous production, while the Camaro took a little time off to regroup in the early part of this century. The return of GM's ponycar for 2010 saw the gap widen even more with Chevy's big engine coming in at 6.2 liters while the Mustang GT's displaced a smallish 4.6 liters. The Camaro was also bigger and heavier than the Mustang by a considerable margin. It was a little more comfortable, and hidden beneath the retro-nostalgic body panels was an independent rear suspension.

For 2012, Chevy aims to redefine the ponycar completely in one electronically optimized fell swoop. The 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 takes the once-simple formula for all-American performance and reworks it into a recipe for a modern cyborg warhorse. Literally leaning on suspension technology originally developed for Cadillacs and Corvettes, the Camaro achieves better-than-Boss levels of handling with the highway ride quality of a CTS-V. The active exhaust system sounds nearly as quiet as a family sedan at part throttle, but opens up its big, angry pipes when you stand on it. Like the ZL1, the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca does allow for ride quality and handling adjustment, but the big difference is the Camaro is adjusted by a smarter-and-faster-than-you computer -- different performance modes are summoned with an index finger through a console-mounted button -- while the Mustang is dialed in using a screwdriver and your spare time.

After getting a suggested setup from Ford for the Boss and instructions on what buttons to push on the Camaro, we took both cars to Inde Motorsports Ranch located in the Arizona Desert just a few short miles from absolutely nothing. We brought along professional hot-shoe Randy Pobst and enough data-acquisition equipment to choke a space shuttle. We not only wanted to take each car to its absolute limit on the track, but also record stats to enable maximum geeking out for weeks to come back at the office. And I got to drive.

The knee-jerk reaction is to assume these cars will feel very different from the specs on paper. Sometimes gut reactions are correct, as they do feel night and day different on the racetrack. The Mustang is a very raw experience: loud engine and the steering is coarse and communicates every patch, bump, and crack in the road. Delivering near-Vulcan Mind Meld levels of communication with the driver, the Boss also requires anti-matter engineer levels of attention. Conversely, GM engineers have a more economical view of feedback. The Camaro doesn't give you the constant feedback of the Mustang, but talks to you when it counts. Think of the Camaro as being a good friend and the Mustang a girlfriend.

Randy Pobst is not only our racing ace, he gives some of the fastest feedback in the business. Follow his comments on both cars at various points around the track...The Camaro's electrically assisted steering rack uses a base level of force depending on the driving mode. The more aggressive modes get more assist and less damping effect. The assist has the ability to identify whether input forces have originated at the road or the steering wheel and can adjust appropriately. The Mustang also has variable assist, but approaches the technology in a more simplistic manner, offering three levels of assist: comfort, normal, and sport. The Boss's rack does back off assist at speed and ramp it up at parking-lot pace, but the assistance levels don't feel as though they are adjusted as often or offer as large a range as with the Camaro system. At the end of the day, the Mustang's steering feels closer to a traditional hydraulically assisted rack, while the Camaro feels closer to something you will find in the current crop of supercars and high-end GTs.

The suspension follows the same theme. The ZL1 has GM's magnetorheological damping, as on the CTS-V and higher-end Corvettes and Ferraris; however, this is next-generation. Thus, there are two coils within the ZL1's dampers, allowing for faster adjustment -- 1000 times per second, in fact -- and finer levels of tuning. By electrically varying the viscosity of the metallic particle-laced fluid within each damper, both compression and rebound rates can be adjusted on the fly.

The Boss requires a trip to the pit lane to adjust its damping rates. The process isn't terribly involved, but the rears do require removing trim pieces for access. Ford recommended using a setting of 5 or full stiff, both front and rear. On the smooth sections of the track, the stiff damping worked fairly well for the Boss, delivering slight understeer in braking and neutral throttle. When picking up the throttle, the live-axle was surprisingly planted, but still allowed a bit of right-foot steering.

Randy explained the real trick of the Boss is its ability to put down power. "Acceleration off a corner is so seamless, the car is very hooked up. The power is going right to the ground and turning into acceleration. In fact, it has so much traction, it's hard to get it sideways under power." With the suspension so stiff, a decent amount of the motion is transferred into the body. "I could feel a long frequency vibration or shudder over the washboards in the front stretch. It was very noticeable, but doesn't shake it loose." Randy didn't feel the same way about curbs, however. "I hit one and stayed off them after. It popped the car loose and made it jump sideways."

The Camaro felt far more composed on the track than the Mustang. "I can put this thing right where I want it!" barked Randy as he slid the car around with one hand. Although heavier than the Mustang, the ZL1 still changes direction easily and is capable of pulling higher g-forces mid-corner. The constantly variable damping rates make the Camaro feel as though its tires sink into the track. Bumps that shook the Boss simply disappeared and never upset the ZL1. More important, more of the track became usable since curbing wouldn't throw the Camaro into a tailspin. The ZL1 doesn't transition like the Boss; it seems to have a much higher moment of inertia. Ham-footing the throttle in the Camaro, which provides nearly 140 horsepower more than the Mustang, will result in more sideways action but the horseplay is still very controllable. It is also worth noting that flooring the Camaro means dealing with almost 140 horsepower more than the Mustang.

Braking was the biggest difference in the two cars' on-track behavior. While data shows that both cars can haul down from speed at similar rates, the Camaro inspired far more confidence. The Mustang, however, made us wonder if the brakes were working to their full potential. Randy explained, "I have to use a tremendous amount of pedal effort, and it just doesn't inspire confidence. There is a little bit of brake dive, but it just doesn't feel like it can generate a lot of friction on the rotors."

We expected the biggest gap in the two cars' lap times to come from the power discrepancy. The Boss is making do with a mere 444 horsepower and 380 lb-ft from its naturally aspirated 5.0-liter V-8. The ZL1 humiliates the 302's spec sheet by cranking out 580 horsepower and a staggering 556 lb-ft of torque from all 6.2 liters of supercharged V-8. The Camaro has to move 7.0 lb/hp while the Mustang is dealing with 8.2. All these things should add up to the Camaro showing the Mustang its taillights with ease and great frequency.

On the road course, the Camaro was 2.4 seconds a lap quicker and almost 10 mph faster at the end of the back straight. Roughly 4 of those mph were courtesy of higher cornering speed carried out of the previous turn. Even without the big power difference on the straight, the Camaro would have been constantly making ground on the Mustang with mid-corner speed. The Camaro can simply generate more cornering force and corner faster, thanks in part to front tires that are as wide as the Mustang's rears and rear tires that are 20 millimeters wider still. Coupled with a stiffer body and more compliant suspension, the Camaro is a more capable car around the track.

The last piece of the puzzle is driver confidence. The Camaro is easy to drive and constantly makes the driver feel like Superman. The Mustang is rewarding to drive, but it's constant work. After a few laps, a Mustang pilot is drenched with sweat and breathing hard.
Even a pro driver like Randy appreciates the value of consistency. Lap data shows a tendency to brake later, and a few instances of "test-stabs" in braking zones. The same holds true to committing to high-speed sweepers. More speed can be carried in with the Camaro, with the most obvious instance in Turn 2 with a constant radius held at speed in the Camaro while the Mustang required a brush of the brakes. It was Turn 3 leading on to the back straight that would be the downfall of the Boss in a daylong race.

The Camaro clearly came out on top of this fight. Although the Boss 302 is probably the best Mustang ever built, it just feels and performs like it's a generation behind. Randy summed it up: "The Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca was my favorite American musclecar -- until today." It isn't the lack of power; it isn't the lack of amenities. It's simply a lack of technology. The Camaro is the benchmark for a new class of vehicle. Call it the Power Pony, the Warhorse -- the name isn't important. What is important is ZL1's on-demand attitude. Supercar levels of performance, with the daily driving comfort of a GT, wrapped in a nostalgic package. I bet Lee saw this one coming, too.

2012-Chevrolet-Camaro-ZL1-engine.jpg


2012-Ford-Mustang-Boss-302-Laguna-Seca-cockpit-engine.jpg


the-track-chart.jpg
track-showdown-chart.jpg

With professional racer Randy Pobst behind the wheel, the ZL1 laps the 2.2-mile Inde Motorsports Ranch circuit 2.45 seconds faster than the Boss. That's huge. Pobst credits the Mustang's ability to put its power down, but the data indicates the ZL1 carries more speed everywhere but the slowest corner.

2013 Ford Shelby GT500

2013-Ford-Shelby-GT500-front-three-quarters.jpg


To ruffle Chevy's feathers during the ZL1's coming-out party, Ford announced the updated 650-hp GT500 at the 2011 Los Angeles auto show. While it doesn't yet have the independent rear suspension rumored in the next-generation Mustang, it does use Bilstein electronically adjustable dampers. While clearly not as advanced as the MR system in Camaro, the dampers do represent a step forward for Ford.

The new GT500 claims a 200+ mph top speed, thanks to what Ford is calling the most powerful V-8 in production. Handling will be aided by Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperCar generation 2 tires and a more aggressive torsen limited-slip differential. Our concern with the last GT500 was its ability to get power to the ground. If Ford can steal some magic from the Boss 302 and turn power into acceleration, this may make the next comparison much more interesting. When we finally get our hands on the 2013 GT500 and the ZL1 at the same time...well, we're going to need a bigger track.

 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
IMO a lot of the differences they are describing are differences between an SRA car and IRS car... The Camaro doesn't get unsettled by the curbs, puts power down more confidently in turns, and inspires more confidence in general is what I'm reading... aren't those all side effects of IRS over SRA?

This review looks very similar to the Mustang GT Vs. BMW M3 review.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
This is a odd comparison. The ZL1's competitor is the GT500. The Boss is down about 100 hp so this is a nice read, but the outcome is as expected.

If I had to guess, I'd assume the boss Lagnua Seca has a similar MSRP to the ZL1?

*edit*

48K for the Laguna Seca (only 40K for a regular boss), 54k for the ZL1, so it's not a huge gap, but you're right Jason, not really a good comparo IMO.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
I think the point they were trying to make though, was that yes it had more power but the suspension is what really won the race. If the gt500 wants to beat the zl1 they will Definetly need to have a killer suspension to go along with the killer engine

It was still an apples to oranges comparison...

Car 1: Has 580hp, an advanced suspension design, and is $54K

Car 2: has 440hp, a primitive suspension design, and starts at $40K

It should come as no surprise which would be faster :rollpicard:

Agreed on the GT500 needing to get its power down though.
 

jason05gt

TCG Elite Member
Jan 17, 2007
15,307
7,195
Naperville
I think the point they were trying to make though, was that yes it had more power but the suspension is what really won the race. If the gt500 wants to beat the zl1 they will Definetly need to have a killer suspension to go along with the killer engine

The Boss is undertired in front and doesn't have the hp to hang with the ZL1.

"The Camaro can simply generate more cornering force and corner faster, thanks in part to front tires that are as wide as the Mustang's rears and rear tires that are 20 millimeters wider still"

The 2013 GT500 will take car of all of this. It's going to send the ZL1 back to the drawing board.
 

Primalzer

TCG Elite Member
Sep 14, 2006
25,259
61
I am actually pretty surprised by the Camaro's abilities on the track. We have always talked about weight being a huge issue with the Camaro, but the amazing thing about that suspension is it's ability to make heavier cars behave like cars with 1000 less pounds. +1 for the Camaro.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
I am actually pretty surprised by the Camaro's abilities on the track. We have always talked about weight being a huge issue with the Camaro, but the amazing thing about that suspension is it's ability to make heavier cars behave like cars with 1000 less pounds. +1 for the Camaro.

And 120 less hp, and suspension that hasn't really changed since the 70's...
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
It is not Chevy's responsibility to make sure Ford brings a less primitive suspension to the table.

I'm not saying it is. I was just pointing out that it has taken this much more technology, power, and tire, jammed into the ZL1 to finally beat a mustang that's nearly 7 grand cheaper, with 120hp less, and a primitive rear suspension...

I'm completely on the "Just wait till the new GT500 comes out" bandwagon, no surprises there. Ford has been One-Upping GM since like 2007 nearly across the board.
 

Dasfinc

Ready for the EVlution
Sep 28, 2007
20,919
1,321
Wheaton, IL
I would have thought they'd go with even the 2012 GT500 before the Boss. Inside Line tested all the Mustang versions and the GT500 was still faster than the Boss 302 LS around Willow Springs.

I'd imagine because they want to compare the 2013 GT500 against it. Maybe they already had the Boss in their test fleet while they had the ZL1? I'd imagine Ford would be reluctant to let press outlets borrow 2012 GT500's with the new one looming. I have no idea how that all works, but I'd imagine it could be the case?
 

Bru

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
TCG Premium
May 24, 2007
40,504
10,201
I'd imagine because they want to compare the 2013 GT500 against it. Maybe they already had the Boss in their test fleet while they had the ZL1? I'd imagine Ford would be reluctant to let press outlets borrow 2012 GT500's with the new one looming. I have no idea how that all works, but I'd imagine it could be the case?

There's always a way to get test vehicles. When we can't get cars from the OEM we go to a broker who finds us exactly what we want down to the trim level, MSRP and options. At a cost, however.
 

Stink Star

Don’t Drive Angry!
TCG Premium
Jan 20, 2008
16,274
11,923
Big wood cock
Problem with the GT500, is it will still be on the same basic architecture as the BOSS, but with some electronically controlled shocks, that who knows how much they will really improve the overall handling ability.

this is my point exactly. I'm sure the power advantage will make it faster in a straight line race, but what if the zl1 cornering prowess lets it overcome the gt500 in the twisties? it will be fun to see. i can't afford either car so it doesn't really matter to me
 

jason05gt

TCG Elite Member
Jan 17, 2007
15,307
7,195
Naperville
this is my point exactly. I'm sure the power advantage will make it faster in a straight line race, but what if the zl1 cornering prowess lets it overcome the gt500 in the twisties? it will be fun to see. i can't afford either car so it doesn't really matter to me

ZL1 won't have cornering prowess compared to the 2013 GT500. This comparison is similar to comparing a V6 Camaro RS to a Mustang GT.
 

10sec

I haz dat teddy bear smile.
TCG Premium
Jul 26, 2008
25,942
5,810
:rofl: the power difference in the GT500 won't make up shit. It'll just be more of a handful to drive. On a track like that, the power of the Camaro over the mustang probably didn't help very much. Although, even if the cars had similar power, you'd argue something else. it's what you do.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 90 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant. Consider starting a new thread to get fresh replies.

Thread Info