Loosing power in our 95 taurus SHO, Getting worse and worse.

Dasfinc

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Sep 28, 2007
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I owned a 93 ATX with 190K on it when I sold it back in 06 *I did a full upper 60K to it at 178K, new plugs/wires, and a buncha other stuff, but didn't adjust the valve lash as it was acceptable at the time and I didn't have the tools*, its engine found its way into a blue 95 ATX that had kicked the bucket at only 125K.
I purchased this blue car last november with minor front end damage, a C+L MAF, and a Superchips LPM. I pulled the MAF and put the stocker on, and pulled out the superchip, replaced the hood and radiator and drove it home (Had power at this point in time, wasn't a real screamer, but could get out of its own way just fine)

We did an oilchange on it shortly after buying it, and noticed within the first month of ownership that it was having 'consistency' issues with its power *would surge* and it was getting maybe 8-10mpg. Late last month we pulled the dash to find the CEL bulb had become unplugged *probably from the accident, the car was basically $350, so its not like they were hiding anything* and then found CEL's for the EGR, "Bank 2 running lean" and "No Knock sensor"

I replaced the knock sensor, and checked to make sure the EGR 'nostrils' in the Intake manifold were clean *they were*

Checked codes again, and still no knock sensor, and it was starting to have trouble getting up hills without flooring it...

This past weekend, I did basically a full tune-up *Wires were shot anyways* so new motorcraft OEM plugs, new wires *Under warranty, woot*, and I replaced the rear *Bank2* O2 sensor just incase. After pulling the plugs I could see that the rear bank was defiantly running lean, and the front rich.
I also dug back into the valley and found a ground in it completely coasted in rust and corrosion, so I filed/sanded it all down to bare metal again, and covered the wire again *part of it was bare through the protection, but since its a ground I don't think that would be an issue* to ensure it would be grounded out well.

Car now is behaving a bit better *previously when coming up to stoplights, the car when downshifting to first would PULL (as in the auto just changing back to first gear while coming up to a stoplight for example) scaring my fiance quite a bit, it no longer does this any more, and can make it back up hills, but still feels REALLY anemic (my stock automatic 07 ford focus is easily twice as fast)

This morning I got a phonecall from my Fiance that the cars tach wasn't working, and another shortly after when she was getting gas that the car didn't want to start back up. She checked the connection on some plugs, and it started up after a few more tries (still with no tach). She works at autozone and is having the car scanned again after work (since we haven't scanned it since the new plugs/wires/O2)

If she comes home still with 'no knock sensor' 'bank 2 lean' and 'EGR' codes still, where should I start? What would be CRUSHING the power of the car as badly as it is? Geo Metro's are blowing her doors off....

my 93 ATX had a catless Y-pipe, the car has a catted Y-Pipe on it now. (clogged cats?)

*to people replying to this, my 93 ATX with this SAME engine in it, had no problem spinning its tires from a standstill in the dry, the 95 ATX that its in now *this same engine*, cannot spin the tires in the rain WOT around a turn, and this is not an exaggeration.*

*Also, thanks big thanks to paul (leddzepp) for coming out and helping install the new knock sensor and show me how easy it was to get into 'the valley'*
 

Dasfinc

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Alrighty, Codes were run:

116: ECT out of range
136: O2 not switching/system lean left or front H02S
(possibly) 137: O2 not switching/system rich left or front H02S
176: O2 not switching system is/was lean left or front
212: Tach signal irractic/spout circut failure
214: error in cylinder ID/CID circuit or signal
237: *can't find codes for 237, I think she meant 137*
 

Lord Tin Foilhat

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i didnt know what ect is so i thought i would post it lol

ECT electronically adjusts the rpm at which the transmission shifts. With ECT activated, the automatic transmission will rev to a higher RPM before shifting, thus allowing quicker and more powerful acceleration, but decreasing fuel economy.


sounds bad, ecu? bad wiring? short?
 

Dasfinc

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Yea Matt, I dunno where you were getting ECT related to trans, but ECT means "engine Coolant Temperature"

The ECT code, was due to the engine not being warm when the codes were scanned *as well as possibly the O2 codes*

the general concensues on SHO forum is to check/replace cam sensor *as that would knock out the tach, and cause starting issues* I personally don't believe that is correct as it was replaced along with the water pump back just before I bought the car, and the tach just stopped working today *so its probably a wire I knocked loose while I had the intake manifold off*.
 

Dasfinc

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The tach being broke would lead me to a crank position sensor.

Just to give you some more shit, that SHO must be some kind of monster. Trapping 180MPH and running 14s. I KEED I KEED.

Our cars use the Cam positioning sensor to relay the RPM signal to the tach, but yea, after jiggling the cam position sensor wire the tach came back, but it still runs like poo.

I don't need to give you any shit because I'm sure you're already being given plenty for frying saturday's PCM :wink:

im pretty sure that SHOs are known for the ignition module going bad... that could certainly explain some of these problems. i believe its located under the shroud on top of the core support

I actually swapped mine out last weekend to see if that was part of a no-start condition we had 2 weekends ago, but it ended up behaving the same so I know my DIS is still good.

Thanks for the input everyone, I've gotten so used to working on the civic I've forgotten how much of a pain in the ass everything else can be to work on.

This is my current stance on this problem:
I JUST got off the phone with Kim like an hour ago and told her "I suspect the cam sensor has been ****** since we got the car, and its been running rich since *hence the bad gas mileage* I suspect recently *the past 3 months* its been getting progressively worse as the cats are probably being destroyed, so I ordered a new cam sensor online *$28 at autozone.com* and we will go to pauls tomorrow to gut the cats out" (buddy of ours who can weld)

Does this sound reasonable guys? or is there a hole in my logic anywhere?
 

Fish

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CPS definatly sounds logical. The CRANK position sensors are notorious on 3800s. However, I never had that problem and neither has a local IIRC. *knock on wood*

I already feel real bad for Nick. Im glad he was a trooper about it. Either way he is getting a canned tune so those dyno #s should take a real nice jump. I owe him lunch or something next time I see him.
 

Dasfinc

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CPS definatly sounds logical. The CRANK position sensors are notorious on 3800s. However, I never had that problem and neither has a local IIRC. *knock on wood*

I already feel real bad for Nick. Im glad he was a trooper about it. Either way he is getting a canned tune so those dyno #s should take a real nice jump. I owe him lunch or something next time I see him.

Could be worse, You could have blown up his transmission like someone else I know :tear:.
 

SaturdaysGS

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Dont worry Brian, no need to feel bad! I promise! I have the canned tune coming (should be here tomorrow), aswell as a spare pcm from Mike K---who was going to send it to me even before I bought a pcm from him. :bigthumb:

Canned tune and no cat makes me want to dyno again. I KNOW she had/has more in her. The only bad part is the mod bug is starting to bite even harder now.

and :io:
 

Primalzer

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Sep 14, 2006
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Yeah that's a hell of a problem. So you've got new plugs and wires. The DIS is ok. So spark SHOULD be ok. Have you checked your fuel rails/ injectors/ fuel filter/ fuel pump? Upstream O2's, and maybe the computer has kicked it? I would definitely replace that cam sensor as even aftermarket ones go bad....I actually had a MAF go bad in 10K miles from Autozone...
 

AlwaysVTEC

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i would check the thermostat or see if the car is getting to operating temp, if its not getting to operating temp your running rich as hell and at a open loop mode which can explain gas mileage.

i would also check the vacum line going to your secondaries on the intake.

could be a charging issue, alternator may not be supplying enough
juice to ecm. higher red line kills alternartors.

could also be the tcu, transmission control unit. this trans is electroincly controled and that could have failed.

hope you figure it out
 
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Dasfinc

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Alright everyone, replaced the cam sensor, with no luck. The car runs the SAME with the cam sensor unplugged, just takes longer to start and has no tach.

We've replaced the plugs, Wires, TPS, knock sensor, rear O2, and the cam sensor

Car no longer throws codes 212 or 214 for Cylinder ID, nor does it throw codes for the knock sensor, it still throws 1 code for an O2 sensor, and its throwing a code 542? Something about fuel pump ground? and about every code the system has for EGR, and IACV out of range.

the throttle body coolant lines have been by-passed on this car, so I don't know if that would cause the IACV out of range, but I'd imagine it would. Also, the EGR nostrils are CLEAN, carb cleaner goes right into the manifold and out of the manifold.

Any more ideas people? I'm running out of money and the car is getting worse.

the little power it produces 'surges' *sounds like the exhaust tone is 'stepping' up every second or so' as you accelerate with any set amount of throttle. Also if you come to a complete stop, and try to accelerate afterwards the car will often stall out, and you basically have to idle it in drive until its going 5mph to give it any throttle or it just starts to stall. PLEASE HELP!!!
 

Mickey

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Holy sweet fucking bejesus dan thats one hell of a problem you have there! That fuel pump circuit failure is a damn good place to start for your shitty performance. Since your engine isnt getting fuel theres your o2 code. start there. ohm out the wires for your fuel pump. Your pump is probably old and shitty like the rest of the car and needs to be replaced... Then we'll figuee out the iac problem. that m,ay just as easily be related to the fuel pump. The iac is probably confused as fuck and maxing out to keep the car from dying. thats just a guess but definitely start with the pump circuit.
 

Dasfinc

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Sep 28, 2007
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Holy sweet fucking bejesus dan thats one hell of a problem you have there! That fuel pump circuit failure is a damn good place to start for your shitty performance. Since your engine isnt getting fuel theres your o2 code. start there. ohm out the wires for your fuel pump. Your pump is probably old and shitty like the rest of the car and needs to be replaced... Then we'll figuee out the iac problem. that m,ay just as easily be related to the fuel pump. The iac is probably confused as fuck and maxing out to keep the car from dying. thats just a guess but definitely start with the pump circuit.

After talking to some SHO guys, the Fuel pump code is a fake *Just basically pitches the code out of anger that its not running correctly*

The pump has sub 130K on it, considering my white one broke 200K with the original pump, I'm not to worried. (That and if it went out, it would cause starting issues obviously :wink:)

I tested all the individual systems of the EGR, and they all seemed fine.

ONLY codes that are really pertinent to the problem are the EGR code, and the O2 code. The IACV is 'out of range' most likely caused by Paul by-passing the TB coolant line but I will swap out my other IACV tomorrow given enough time.
 
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