Valve spring coil bind question...

Bob Kazamakis

I’m the f-ing lizard king
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Oct 24, 2007
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are you refering to actual spring coil bind or retainer to guide/seal clearance?
this.

i had some viton seals get eaten up even after zzp told me they would work. i couldnt see there being coil bind with an off the shelf spring unless you have some giant ass custom cam going in
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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.030 is plenty gap between coils
some schools of thought on springs say that the closer to coil bind you end up the less harmonic waves the spring experiences

your best method is to use a dial indicator with just the valve, keepers (locks), retainer and seal (a checking spring helps but not everyone has all the tools) and measure the full travel till the retainer hits the seal

then subtract the theroretical at valve lift, thats your clearance
 

Alacran

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Jan 18, 2009
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we have checking springs but i did not place the locators with them to keep pressure low. No big deal to add them in for our next round of measurements.

Also, there are lock that will add 0.050" to install height, almost taking out the locator height, but then i have to worry about rocker arm clearance.
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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a checking spring you can compresss with your thumb to install the keepers would let you stick a feeler/wire gauge through it to measure the clearance between the retainer and guide (with or without the seal installed

speaking of which what crap are ya running? 3800 or lsx retainers...stock or comp locks/keepers, stock valves? stock style seals or the hard body seals? is this on a briggs and stratton or a damn 3800 or maybe a sbc???

so your refering to coil bind measurements (the distance from one coil tot he adjacent at full valve lift) with a spring that isnt even going into it? thats worthless info

how are you compressing the spring/valve to max valve lift. is it on the block with the rockers and pushrods hooked up? if it is keep in mind your nowhere near the proper valve lift from un pumped up lifters, you would have to make or buy a solid lifter to get anywhere near the theoretical valve lift the cam card specs

.030 coil bind clearance si plenty, you do however have to figure out the the seal to retainer clearance so get out you magnetic mount dial indicator or buy a valvespring mic and check it out
 

Alacran

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Jan 18, 2009
1,152
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Chicago
a checking spring you can compresss with your thumb to install the keepers would let you stick a feeler/wire gauge through it to measure the clearance between the retainer and guide (with or without the seal installed

speaking of which what crap are ya running? 3800 or lsx retainers...stock or comp locks/keepers, stock valves? stock style seals or the hard body seals? is this on a briggs and stratton or a damn 3800 or maybe a sbc???

how are you compressing the spring/valve to max valve lift. is it on the block with the rockers and pushrods hooked up? if it is keep in mind your nowhere near the proper valve lift from un pumped up lifters, you would have to make or buy a solid lifter to get anywhere near the theoretical valve lift the cam card specs

.030 coil bind clearance si plenty, you do however have to figure out the the seal to retainer clearance so get out you magnetic mount dial indicator or buy a valvespring mic and check it out

I thought my sig would throw some people off. This is for SBC we are building, perhaps i should have posted in the old thread i made.

We are using a valve spring micrometer to measure install height with spring checkers. The coil bind i am referring to is for the beehive springs that will go in eventually once we figure it out.

We do have solid lifters as well but we are still waiting for the bumpstick to show up.

I hope 0.30 is enough for the beehive valve springs otherwise we will need to change something. The retainers, locators, and locks are for the beehive valve spring.

does that clear it up?

Thanks,
Nick
 

Turbocharged400sbc

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chances are unless it's a pretty radical cam your not gonna have any issues, ovate wire beehive springs tend to have more coil to adjacent coil clearance than round wire.

a spring mic wont give you access to the seal/retainer interference area but it could work fine.

leave the spring off, measure full valve seated height, then shorten the spring mic till the retainer comes off the mic as it rests directly on the seal then bring it up till it touches and just lifts it off the seal that will give you both extremes of travel subtract the spec card valve lift (unless your not using stock ratio rockers) and that should be a good aprox of retainer to seal clearance
 

Alacran

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Jan 18, 2009
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Chicago
Just check the clearances last night. The only way to get more coil bind clearance is to machine the spring pocket on the head. We have 0.050" between rocker and valve lock. Plenty of seal clearance. Valve spring micrometer was off a bit, 0.001".

When we get the cam we will check actual clearance.
 

Alacran

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Jan 18, 2009
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Chicago
Finally got the cam and in the engine last Friday night. We went through to check actual valve lift. Our actual minimum coil bind clearance with spring checkers is 0.023".

I am getting tired of messing around with these beehive springs.

There is a source for 0.035" thick spring locators. Another source for +0.050" Ti retainers.

What should we do in this case? The retainers would have to go all across the board I believe. the locators can go in certain areas where its needed.

Also, the heads have not been torn down and now we need to get this done

Nick

P.S. one thing to point out is the beehive springs are going on center bolt Edelbrock heads with 11/32 valves and 0.570 guides.
 
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