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Old 02-14-2008, 12:27 AM   #1
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Default On Topic: Is Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep Doomed?

Whats everyones opinions? They seem to have been condemned to rental fleets and their 'lifetime warranty' is very hollow upon researching it. Are they gonna be belly up in a few weeks, months, years?

Whats everyones take on the new buy-out by Cerberus, as of December of 2007 Chrysler was operationally bankrupt and operating soley on the money put up by Cerberus

"Someone asked me, 'Are we bankrupt?'" the Wall Street Journal quoted Chrysler boss Robert Nardelli telling employees at a meeting earlier this month. "Technically, no. Operationally, yes. The only thing that keeps us from going into bankruptcy is the $10 billion investors entrusted us with."

10 billion is quite alot of money, but not enough to keep a company that big thats losing money that quickly for much more than a year if that.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:30 AM   #2
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God, i hope so...i'm sick of seeing heavy, slow ass cars that cannot be tuned...
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:32 AM   #3
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What boggles my mind is they stopped making the PT Cruiser and the crossfire, which both got half-way decent gasmileage, as well as the Magnum which was kinda cool. even the Pacifica didn't get horrid mileage *Also Axed*, But the Durango and Aspen were supposed to be Axed at the same time, but that fell through, and now that the new CAFE legislation back I'm sure they are kicking themselves for that now for dropping 4 20-30mpg cars/Xover and keeping their beloved 15mpg SUV.

*edit*

I'm not saying the PT was an especially cool car, or the pacifica etc etc, I'm just saying I think that was a REALLY REALLY bad call to toss those models instead of the durango that gets 15mpg right before the new laws were passed.

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Old 02-14-2008, 12:37 AM   #4
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I actually liked the pacifica, looked nice, got decent mpg and had decent power.

i ended up taking a trip for work to St. Louis and we rented a new 08 dodge caravan and it was actually really nice and well thought out inside. i was impressed; lacked under the hood a bit but it was a mini-van. the other guys that went with us ended up with a chevy uplander and it kicked the dodges ass though. plus it topped out a 112mph!

I dont understand why they keep making the SAME car over and over again, charger, 300c, magnum, challenger... overpriced 2 ton + piles of crap. i mean i guess its cool to tune with 2 extra injectors behind your throttle body and all...
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:10 AM   #5
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I actually liked the pacifica, looked nice, got decent mpg and had decent power.

i ended up taking a trip for work to St. Louis and we rented a new 08 dodge caravan and it was actually really nice and well thought out inside. i was impressed; lacked under the hood a bit but it was a mini-van. the other guys that went with us ended up with a chevy uplander and it kicked the dodges ass though. plus it topped out a 112mph!

I dont understand why they keep making the SAME car over and over again, charger, 300c, magnum, challenger... overpriced 2 ton + piles of crap. i mean i guess its cool to tune with 2 extra injectors behind your throttle body and all...
Actually, the Charger isnt a horrible car. I looked at Magnums as well and they are pretty peppy cars with lots of potential. A buddy of mine ran 13.5 with bolt ons in his Charger RT. HPTuners is expanding to Dodge as well giving them tuning opportunities and they will be able to change their gears. AFAIK, they have some horrible long gears. Im talking 2:5X range.
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:30 AM   #6
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Stop bashing the 300C, its a really nice E-series. Chrysler always has these ups and downs

1980s was in the dumps: Built K-cars and Minivans +bought Jeep from AMC
1990 was going to dumps: Built Redesigned Ram, LH cars, Viper
early 2000's in the dumps: Builds LX cars and brings back Hemi

If you read into it, the merger with Mercedes did nothing for Chrysler, The "Equal" partner ship turned into what, the crossfire (slk redesign) and the LX cars (which is just an E-series with new clothes and engine). Chrysler didnt get any foothold in europe and Mercedes got cheaper parts from Chryslers suppliers. Oddly enough those suppliers are now bankrupt and Chrysler was running low on parts to make cars.

I'm not an expert, but Read Lee Iacocca's new book and he'll tell you what that merger was all about. Its a really good read too.
Iacocca, Lee (2007). Where Have All the Leaders Gone.
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:53 AM   #7
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DASFINC, i think its safe to say you dont like stock cars that can blow your doors off, and as long as chrysler is in bed with Benz it wont go under. and untuneable????? are you nuts?
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:16 AM   #8
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DASFINC, i think its safe to say you dont like stock cars that can blow your doors off, and as long as chrysler is in bed with Benz it wont go under. and untuneable????? are you nuts?
What are you reading?

I even specifically said "I'm not knocking any of these cars, I don't understand why they dropped them and yet kept the durango"

Chrysler isn't in bed with Benz anymore, they haven't been for several months now, and are they are quite tuneable.
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Old 02-14-2008, 09:18 AM   #9
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DASFINC, i think its safe to say you dont like stock cars that can blow your doors off, and as long as chrysler is in bed with Benz it wont go under. and untuneable????? are you nuts?
I think you were reading IlikeBMX's posts instead of mine

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God, i hope so...i'm sick of seeing heavy, slow ass cars that cannot be tuned...
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:40 AM   #10
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They've been doomed ever since Daimler sold them.
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:43 AM   #11
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I think you were reading IlikeBMX's posts instead of mine

Yep, I apologize for the confusion.



If they are so doomed then why are they pumping out these factory muscle cars still? why are they in better shape then ford and GM?
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:44 AM   #12
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junk
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:57 AM   #13
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Yep, I apologize for the confusion.



If they are so doomed then why are they pumping out these factory muscle cars still? why are they in better shape then ford and GM?
Oh come on now,

Because their factory muscle cars get 16mpg, and won't be legal to sell in another 2 years so they have to change EVERYTHING to survive and be allowed to sell cars in the US, let alone make money.

And they are DEFINATLY not in better shape than Ford or GM, GM is #1 still, and Ford after loosing money for several years is profitable again and has trimmed down its work forces and other companies *ala Jag, Aston, etc* so it no longer has to worry about the super luxo's and can focus on it needs to and not worry about their 14mpg Jaguars and Astons with the CAFE regulations, while Chrysler is like a Black Hole for money hence why they are operationally bankrupt as of Dec 2007.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:04 AM   #14
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If they are so doomed then why are they pumping out these factory muscle cars still? why are they in better shape then ford and GM?
wait you mean the exact same muscle cars over and over again? 4,200lbs and low14's /high 13s is ALOT of muscle!

i retract my statement of "junk"

i change it to "shit"
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:08 AM   #15
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what do you think project 1 and 2 weight? ( neither one in stock form will get down 1320 in less then 16 seconds)

and its not the exact same muscle cars over and over ( wait wasnt it olds who made a wrong wheel drive 4 door econobox gutless?) wait GM did it with a number of their cars too. Its a name not the car, and besides it might get 16 mpg with all 8 thumping but what about when the DOD kicks in and you have a hemi with only 4 or 6 cylinders pumping? thats what I thought. I am by no means a mopar fan at all but when I see bullshit I call it.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:15 AM   #16
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Oh come on now,

Because their factory muscle cars get 16mpg, and won't be legal to sell in another 2 years so they have to change EVERYTHING to survive and be allowed to sell cars in the US, let alone make money.

And they are DEFINATLY not in better shape than Ford or GM, GM is #1 still, and Ford after loosing money for several years is profitable again and has trimmed down its work forces and other companies *ala Jag, Aston, etc* so it no longer has to worry about the super luxo's and can focus on it needs to and not worry about their 14mpg Jaguars and Astons with the CAFE regulations, while Chrysler is like a Black Hole for money hence why they are operationally bankrupt as of Dec 2007.

why they are bankrupt is due to them trying to aquire their parts businesses as well. its a very complex bankruptcy suit with them. Its a legal battle between them, they trimmed the fat to focus on its US operations instead of operations abroad. Its not a company bankruptcy battle its a dispute between the automaker and its major parts supplier.

trimming the fat is just part of retail business, weather it be a major company or a mom and pop shop down the road.

Ford hasnt done any better, it keeps creating factory flops that come with a price tag that most people cant afford.(ford GT for example)


They will be around 20 years from now with or without CAFE. and besides most of CAFE outcome will come in vehicles that the ratings have been altered to comply with the new laws. Look at the late 60's ALOT of cars were underrated to comply with federal laws passed back then. CAFE isnt a new thing its a very old thing with new people pushing it.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:16 AM   #17
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here read this.


http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:21 AM   #18
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16mpg cars wont be illegal, they'll just need to be low numbers or offset by a higher mileage vehicle, remember its 35mpg CAFE(CORPORATE AVERAGE Fuel Economy).

Most Chrysler products are not very tuneable from the computer, they do not give out their codes so the aftermarket can mode them.

Chrysler was in good shape before they merged with Benz, i believe they had the lowest cost per car (wages for hourly employees and paying for parts ect) outta any domestic car maker. They would be in better shape if they HAD NOT merged.

Now i'm not gonna bash anyones opinion or even say that Chrysler stuff is crap, but if you can sell cars (no matter what price range) for the same as the other guys, but spend less making them that is usually a good basis to make money.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:25 AM   #19
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You dont make the Ford GT to be a major profit maker, you make it to get attention and people in the dealerships. Its just a dick measuring contest in how cool can you make a Halo car and showing off your engineering talents. With ford they do not put any of what they learned with the GT into practice with their lower cars.

Its like with racing. What you learn in racing (disc brakes, fuel injection, tire technology) trickles down into the production cars. It should help build a better car, but sometimes people fuck it up and you get what Ford and GM are doing, losing a shitload of money.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:30 AM   #20
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Ford hasnt done any better, it keeps creating factory flops that come with a price tag that most people cant afford.(ford GT for example)
I do agree its a 'complex situation' and i understand CAFE regulations, but chrysler hardly produces ANY cars with city mileage above 20mpg, let alone a small handfull that breaks 25 on the freeway that would offset their trucks, SUVs and muscle cars.

And Ford sold every single GT they built before they had even finished rolling off the assembly line.

the ford 500 would be an example of over-priced factory flop, but regardless, the sebring and avengers aren't exactly flying off the shelfs either.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:32 AM   #21
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Now i'm not gonna bash anyones opinion or even say that Chrysler stuff is crap, but if you can sell cars (no matter what price range) for the same as the other guys, but spend less making them that is usually a good basis to make money.
Ala why Chevy is offering all the buyouts currently, agreed.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:33 AM   #22
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but what about when the DOD kicks in and you have a hemi with only 4 or 6 cylinders pumping?
Then you may get 18-20 instead of 16, DOD isn't that fantastic of a technology as everything still has to spin and create friction.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:37 AM   #23
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2-4 mpg increase is great, however that friction is kept in control by the oiling system. its rotating mass, the less weight you have in it the easier the motor spins. which was the original basis for forged and premium internals.
Im not bashing anyone here, everyone has their opinions I just prefer educated ones that one can have a solid friendly debate( aRGUMENT) about.

Ive driven plenty of DOD equipped vehicles, its not that bad, alot better then one would think. Now you want to get into the v-10 aspect then thats a whole new animal. especially since two cylinders must fire at the same time to keep the motor running. which inturn doesnt create as much power as one would think, torque yes, raw power no. I even think mccarlin can get in on this with the vipers. yes sweet cars but the engines are less then satisfactory in the performance department.( without add-ons or modifications) My argument is bone stock factory fresh.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:38 AM   #24
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Ala why Chevy is offering all the buyouts currently, agreed.

if it keeps em in business and the people accept the buyouts, whats the problem, its just business.
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:47 AM   #25
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if it keeps em in business and the people accept the buyouts, whats the problem, its just business.
I think you may have mis-read that, I was agreeing that its what they are doing to keep in buisness, I didn't say it was wrong.

My main concern with Chrysler is that not a single car meets those new cafe regulations and only 1 is even close (caliber *sp*) and they are going to have to spend more money than they have to research new technologies and new cars to reach the new cafe standards, and IIRC they are one of the only major auto manufacturers to not offer any form of hybrid yet which is really going to hurt them as well. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard of or ever seen a Chrysler/dodge/jeep hybrid)
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